68 replies to this topic

[MilesTeg1982]

First - this is not meant to be a troll-topic - its actually a serious topic (please excuse the headline).

What I mean when I say that players have voted "Clans are not OP" is the "Battle of Tukayyid" and their mechs of choice for this event.

Lets face some facts:

1. people can get free rewards - including nice amounts of cbills, mc and free mechs for participating in the event and performing well (80 points is not really hard to get in a CW unless its a total disaster). Since most people want to get those rewards (even if they don't want the rewards they still want to win) they most likely choose the mechs they consider the best for the job.

2. Right now there Clans are outnumbered by IS (I see 0 Attacker and 38 Defender Queues). Therefore most people are using IS-Mechs right now.

That leaves only one conclusion:
Most players in CW right now consider IS-Mechs/Weapons better than Clan-Mechs/Weapons.

Maybe they are right - maybe it is time to stop the buff IS and nerf Clans policy.

[thesleepyslam]

either that, or inner sphere mechs are significantly cheaper to buy, so when you're starting out you tend to buy inner sphere mechs. So playing inner sphere is literally easier.

[Sylvian Le Fabre]

It can't be that many new players.

Edited by Sylvian Le Fabre, 25 April 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

IS Mechs are not that cheap in the long run, prices are rather close (when comparing IS to Clan).

Also more players have had more time to get IS mechs than Clan. And players are free to choose their favorite factions too.


Balancing is gonna be ongoing at any rate, anyway!

Edited by Praetor Knight, 25 April 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

thesleepyslam, on 25 April 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

either that, or inner sphere mechs are significantly cheaper to buy, so when you're starting out you tend to buy inner sphere mechs. So playing inner sphere is literally easier.

still though if IS mechs are Cheaper out of the Box(they do get just as expensive with Upgrades),
and can still hold 47%-53% win Rate, then IS is balanced with Clan in Combat, but still Cheaper,
so Clan is a more Expensive choice with almost the same win chance,
though each side does have Flavor, its interesting non the less,

[Burktross]

Aren't clans winning?

[thesleepyslam]

clans are winning.

there are also a whole lot of efficiencies to running inner sphere mechs. being able to swap around engines will save you nearly half the cost of building another mech, not to mention that even if the mechs are similarly priced when fully built, that getting into them is easier.

The result is what I said, it's easier to get into inner sphere, and making the move from inner sphere to clan mechs presents a barrier in style of play and up front cost, resulting in most players starting in the inner sphere and then staying there.

Edited by thesleepyslam, 25 April 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[Strykewolf]

While I agree that clan mechs are not OP; your conclusion lacks a few things.

Such as:

Mech prices: It's easier to get into IS mechs and build them up as you 'level' them and learn them. Not everybody has 60 million,or more, c-bills laying around. And coughing up 2-3x as much just to start with a mech can be daunting.

Time invested: Along with the above, time invested building up the IS mechs so that they are comparable to the clan mechs. For some players, having to start over with basics, re-equipping, learning how to use properly...is challenging all on its own.

72 hour wait time to change sides to help balance the event queues.

C-bill cost to break contract.

And, there's likely a few other things.

[CantHandletheTruth]

thesleepyslam, on 25 April 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

clans are winning

The FORTY THREE group queue waiting to pick on clans says.....

Strykewolf, on 25 April 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

72 hour wait time to change sides to help balance the event queues.

One of the most boneheaded moves PGI has ever made.

Help? Balance?

There are currently 43 twelve man teams wait to play..........

:edit 51 teams waiting right now.


















two clan teams.

If by balanced you mean pissing off 98% of the people even willing to try its lovely yes.

Edited by CantHandletheTruth, 25 April 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[thesleepyslam]

MilesTeg1982, on 25 April 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

That leaves only one conclusion:
Most players in CW right now consider IS-Mechs/Weapons better than Clan-Mechs/Weapons.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
check out "false cause" and "the texas sharpshooter"

CantHandletheTruth, on 25 April 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

The FORTY THREE group queue waiting to pick on clans says.....

there is actually only one slot that the inner sphere can ghost drop onto right now, so around 98% of the territories are showing actual results of matches, clan maintaining advantage.

we're seeing mostly clan advantages around 50%-70% so far, so the clans are winning between 1/2 and 2/3rds of their matches, on average.

Edited by thesleepyslam, 25 April 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[Rampancy]

CantHandletheTruth, on 25 April 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

The FORTY THREE group queue waiting to pick on clans says.....



One of the most boneheaded moves PGI has ever made.

Help? Balance?

There are currently 43 twelve man teams wait to play..........

:edit 51 teams waiting right now.


















two clan teams.

If by balanced you mean pissing off 98% of the people even willing to try its lovely yes.

It takes what, 10? 15? minutes to move through the queue right now. That's not bad at ALL considering the sheer number of players trying to play right now.

[CantHandletheTruth]

RampancyTW, on 25 April 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

It takes what, 10? 15? minutes to move through the queue right now. That's not bad at ALL considering the sheer number of players trying to play right now.

I've been waiting since I made that post. I would have cancceled and swapped over by now, I play both sides anyway.

[MilesTeg1982]

well several people argued that IS-Mechs are cheaper to get - I don't think that's a valid arguement:

1. Clan-Mechs are available for CBills for quite some time now - everyone who wanted to have them could have them by now.

2. IS-Mechs are cheaper to buy yes, but people should take into account hat they have to invest alot into IS-Mechs if they don't want to run them with there stock-loadout >> Engines, Weapons, Armor, Heatsinks, Endosteel, Modules. Overall they are not really cheaper than Clan-Mechs.

Also - Yes people need to invest CBills to break a contract - however - people have choosen to stick with IS for a reason and I highly doubt that everybody does that for roleplaying.

[Lord0fHats]

As with the last event, I don't think the current steam roll or population imbalance really says much about mech balance.

It's really just the same problems;

1. IS has more mech variety and a wider range of viable mechs.
2. Clan mechs are expensive (CBills and MC)

It's just easier for players to play IS, so more players play IS. I am skeptical that this means anything more than that.

[MilesTeg1982]

thesleepyslam, on 25 April 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
check out "false cause" and "the texas sharpshooter"


there is actually only one slot that the inner sphere can ghost drop onto right now, so around 98% of the territories are showing actual results of matches, clan maintaining advantage.

we're seeing mostly clan advantages around 50%-70% so far, so the clans are winning between 1/2 and 2/3rds of their matches, on average.

1. I'm well aware that this is a special event - however it is allmost perfectly designed in order to make people choose their prefered mechs/weapons (even though I doubt PGI did think about that). Unfortunatly we don't have statistics about normal matches (although I have to say - there are quite a lot 1% [only 1 example for a title which need a lot of playtime] using IS-mechs, how so?)

2. I don't know where your 70% come from, I see only 48-52%

[Jon Gotham]

I think it's a combination of the paywall..both real money and cbills and awkward, inefficient clan weapons.
I use both sets of mechs and I will ALWAYS choose IS mechs over clan ones, to do anything serious with. Why?
Well I believe Is has more efficient damage output. They have shorter contact times during firing, they have more FLD PP and generally run cooler.
Now consider vast majority of combat in mwo is peek a boo.....the mechs who can do it more often, with shorter exposure times are going to be superior. For a clanner to be as efficient as an Is they have to:

#1 Use more guns at a time due to spread and thus generate INSANE HEAT or
#2 Use less guns and cram heatsinks on so they can fire more often.

If they choose option #2 they often have equal or slightly less firepower than the same Is mech...SANS QUIRKS.....and those quirks really are a game changer.

Then you add the paywall in as well.......

[thesleepyslam]

There is an entire field of study devoted to understanding why people make decisions. Here are some reasons why someone would buy inner sphere over clans.
Inner sphere allows you to try a mech out before devoting the entire sum of money to finish building it. - People prefer to try things sooner rather than later.
Being able to test out a mech that you might like before committing to fully kiting it out via scavenging parts from other mechs lowers the amount of money you lose if you decide to sell because you don't like it. - People prefer lower risk.

[thesleepyslam]

MilesTeg1982, on 25 April 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

2. I don't know where your 70% come from, I see only 48-52%

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/
anecdotal

I was seeing those numbers late last night around the 70% range

Edited by thesleepyslam, 25 April 2015 - 11:46 AM.

[Xetelian]

The blanket nerfs like laser duration and multi bullet ACs make it hard for anything other than the SCR and TBR to work.

[Rampancy]

CantHandletheTruth, on 25 April 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

I've been waiting since I made that post. I would have cancceled and swapped over by now, I play both sides anyway.

Funny, I've been waiting under 20 minutes every. Single. Time.