68 replies to this topic

[CantHandletheTruth]

RampancyTW, on 25 April 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Funny, I've been waiting under 20 minutes every. Single. Time.

Lucky you.

I went and jumped on TS........its going much faster, we had a 9 man and the pugs kept dropping and getting yanked at like 4 in line.

[Ursh]

Clans are losing right now, because grouped IS units get pushed to the front ahead of IS solo players. IS units are beating clan solo players, big surprise. with quirked out mechs that often outperform and outrange clan tech, who exactly is in shock here?

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

@OP:

1 - Many players lack Clan mechs, because the initial purchase price is so high when using c-bills, and/or the packages are outside of their price range.

2 - Clan trials are stock configurations, and therefore far from optimized.

3 - IS trials are Champions, which are at least minimally optimized.

4 - Some players are actually loyal to the Inner Sphere. I, for one, am and always will be a Davion player, at least until ComStar becomes an option.

All this suggests many alternatives to the idea that rational self-interest based on personal judgments of relative OP/UP is pushing people toward the IS queue.

[One Medic Army]

MilesTeg1982, on 25 April 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

well several people argued that IS-Mechs are cheaper to get - I don't think that's a valid arguement:

1. Clan-Mechs are available for CBills for quite some time now - everyone who wanted to have them could have them by now.

2. IS-Mechs are cheaper to buy yes, but people should take into account hat they have to invest alot into IS-Mechs if they don't want to run them with there stock-loadout >> Engines, Weapons, Armor, Heatsinks, Endosteel, Modules. Overall they are not really cheaper than Clan-Mechs.

Also - Yes people need to invest CBills to break a contract - however - people have choosen to stick with IS for a reason and I highly doubt that everybody does that for roleplaying.

Speaking as someone who just purchased 2 clan mechs, and fitted 3 so I could get a clan dropdeck, clan mechs are still more. Don't have to buy engines, but I already have all the engines I need for my IS mechs. DHS tax for 1.5, vs having to buy a bunch of omnipods for 200k-400k each. Clan weapons cost more, straight up. Endo is not expensive.

To buy a storm crow and hellbringer, and fit 2 crows and said hellbringer, ran me about 30million. It was about 5mil on top of purchase price to buy all the omnipods and extra guns.

[Zoid]

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the Timberwolf being nearly 3 times as expensive as the Thunderbolt.

[Frosted]

IS have more skills even if clan mechs are OP

[Cabusha]

People are playing the IS because they WANT to kick Clanner ass. They want to be the awesome people they've read about for years in the books.

Good try though.

[Telmasa]

There's more pugs playing IS than clans right now. That's why the clans are getting any wins at all; only an organized team of the "holy trinity" mechs on the Clan side have any hope of competing with the stupid god-mode-quirk collection the IS organized teams have right now.

Edited by Telmasa, 25 April 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[CantHandletheTruth]

Telmasa, on 25 April 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

There's more pugs playing IS than clans right now. That's why the clans are getting any wins at all; only an organized team of the "holy trinity" mechs on the Clan side have any hope of competing with the stupid god-mode-quirk collection the IS organized teams have right now.

Been beating them as well.

[MechaBattler]

There are more IS units. Even Liao has dedicated loyalist units. But unlike the regular CW. We don't have to share a border to fight on Tukkayid. And every decent unit wants to represent in the fighting. So why wouldn't there be more IS units/defenders?

It's not like fighting to defend someone else territory from the Clans, while Clan Davrat takes Liao territory, not much incentive. But this is a one off event before they reset the map.

[Cosmocat]

~ popularity and balance are different things ~

[Jonathan Paine]

MilesTeg1982, on 25 April 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

First - this is not meant to be a troll-topic - its actually a serious topic (please excuse the headline).

What I mean when I say that players have voted "Clans are not OP" is the "Battle of Tukayyid" and their mechs of choice for this event.

Lets face some facts:

1. people can get free rewards - including nice amounts of cbills, mc and free mechs for participating in the event and performing well (80 points is not really hard to get in a CW unless its a total disaster). Since most people want to get those rewards (even if they don't want the rewards they still want to win) they most likely choose the mechs they consider the best for the job.

2. Right now there Clans are outnumbered by IS (I see 0 Attacker and 38 Defender Queues). Therefore most people are using IS-Mechs right now.

That leaves only one conclusion:
Most players in CW right now consider IS-Mechs/Weapons better than Clan-Mechs/Weapons.

Maybe they are right - maybe it is time to stop the buff IS and nerf Clans policy.

1. Most people can hit 80 points over 4 mechs, IS or no
- No reason to switch for this

2. Only number that matters here is which side is winning more. Clan is winning more.

Conclusion:
Ask for your tuition back.

[Mawai]

You want some additional data points?

I have around 80 mechs ... many IS.

I have Kit fox, nova, summoner, direwolf from the first clan pack and 3 stormcrows I bought on sale for cbills.

If I was to drop into CW right now I would most likely go with IS mechs because ...

1) I have them fully skilled up
2) I have played them alot
3) I don't have my Stormcrows leveled
4) I don't own any Timberwolves

When you claim that folks think IS is better than clans ... it is because that is what they have available.

The best clan mechs are Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf and Hellbringer. These are arguably the best four mechs in the game at the moment. IF you happen to be able to make a drop deck out of these 4 mechs then the person might choose clans.

On the other hand, if a player has a selection of clan mechs that does not include those four ... then they will probably choose IS since the rest of the clan mechs are pretty average and are comparable to most IS mechs in overall performance.

Finally, there seems to be some discussion about costs ... clan mechs are certainly more expensive.

Stormcrow is 11.2 million / variant
Shadowhark is 4.4 million/variant

Cost of an XL 275 engine is about 3 mill
Double heat sinks 1.5 mill/variant
Endo Steel 0.55 mill/variant

That averages out to 3 mill/variant or a total of 7.4 mill/variant for the Shadowhawk compared to 11.2mill/variant for the Stormcrow.

The story is the same for every other clan mech ... they are more expensive and there is no economy of scale. For IS, that XL engine can be used on any other mech where it fits ... so getting your next mech is cheaper since you may not even need to purchase an XL engine. On top of that, certain IS mechs like the Hunchback, work best with standard engines. Finally, for IS mechs you can upgrade them piece by piece as you earn cbills ... you can add endo as you earn enough to do so ... you could even add DHS the same way though it is not recommended.

As a result, most folks who start this game ... go IS ... they have an iS stable ... their IS mechs are levelled more and they may not have the best clan mechs ... so for a CW challenge they simply choose to play their IS mechs.

The population numbers do NOT (in my opinion) indicate any sort of information on whether clan vs IS is balanced ... that data may come out of who is winning and who is losing the battle ... not from what folks choose to play.

[El Bandito]

Mawai, on 25 April 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

You want some additional data points?

I have around 80 mechs ... many IS.

I have Kit fox, nova, summoner, direwolf from the first clan pack and 3 stormcrows I bought on sale for cbills.

If I was to drop into CW right now I would most likely go with IS mechs because ...

1) I have them fully skilled up
2) I have played them alot
3) I don't have my Stormcrows leveled
4) I don't own any Timberwolves

When you claim that folks think IS is better than clans ... it is because that is what they have available.

The best clan mechs are Stormcrow, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf and Hellbringer. These are arguably the best four mechs in the game at the moment. IF you happen to be able to make a drop deck out of these 4 mechs then the person might choose clans.

On the other hand, if a player has a selection of clan mechs that does not include those four ... then they will probably choose IS since the rest of the clan mechs are pretty average and are comparable to most IS mechs in overall performance.

Finally, there seems to be some discussion about costs ... clan mechs are certainly more expensive.

Stormcrow is 11.2 million / variant
Shadowhark is 4.4 million/variant

Cost of an XL 275 engine is about 3 mill
Double heat sinks 1.5 mill/variant
Endo Steel 0.55 mill/variant

That averages out to 3 mill/variant or a total of 7.4 mill/variant for the Shadowhawk compared to 11.2mill/variant for the Stormcrow.

The story is the same for every other clan mech ... they are more expensive and there is no economy of scale. For IS, that XL engine can be used on any other mech where it fits ... so getting your next mech is cheaper since you may not even need to purchase an XL engine. On top of that, certain IS mechs like the Hunchback, work best with standard engines. Finally, for IS mechs you can upgrade them piece by piece as you earn cbills ... you can add endo as you earn enough to do so ... you could even add DHS the same way though it is not recommended.

As a result, most folks who start this game ... go IS ... they have an iS stable ... their IS mechs are levelled more and they may not have the best clan mechs ... so for a CW challenge they simply choose to play their IS mechs.

The population numbers do NOT (in my opinion) indicate any sort of information on whether clan vs IS is balanced ... that data may come out of who is winning and who is losing the battle ... not from what folks choose to play.

What he said.

/thread.

[Hillslam]

MilesTeg1982, on 25 April 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

...
That leaves only one conclusion:
Most players in CW right now consider IS-Mechs/Weapons better than Clan-Mechs/Weapons.

Nope.

How about: some players don't like playing clans. Gear be damned.
- Some don't like the comically ridiculous fluff
- Some don't like being perceived as advantage-seeking whiners
- Some don't like roleplaying with neckbeards
- Some don't like how the mechs look
- and so on and so on

Edited by Hillslam, 25 April 2015 - 07:27 PM.

[Artgathan]

MilesTeg1982, on 25 April 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

Most players in CW right now consider IS-Mechs/Weapons better than Clan-Mechs/Weapons.

Even if this statement were true, the simple fact that a majority of people believe something does not make it true. See topic "The Earth is totally flat guys, you'll fall off if you make it to the edge."

[Eider]

Or maybe people rather play is factions instead of trashborn scum? just saying. In reality there was no way i would play clan in cw. But i will still play their op mechs feathering my tw, avoiding 50% of all hits that should have hit the stormcrow thanks to broken boxes and general derp with whale. Hail the combine.

[Xetelian]

People who think its the cost are seriously not considering all the upgrades that clan mechs come with.

IS need DHS ENDO and sometimes XL
Clan mechs come with these upgrades already.

17,000,000 for a DWF is a bit steep, considering how much it'll cost to upgrade an Atlas

[Clint Steel]

Depends on when you started playing, I have over 70 IS mechs and only 8 Clan Mechs, so it was an obvious choice to join an IS faction.

[MilesTeg1982]

seriously guys, a lot of people came up with "Clan Mechs are more expensive than IS-Mechs" - and not a single(!) one has considered modules ... with modules any mech will end up at 20M cbills quickly (just an example: I use seismic and/or radar dep + one or two weapon range modules, so I usually have about 12M Cbills on modules alone).

Therefore I don't really buy that argument - espeacially when you look at popular IS-Mechs which are not stock anyway.

Also - as said before - Clan-Mechs are out for CBills for quite some time now - if any player wanted to have them there was enough time to grind the Cbills. And seriously - when people with titles like "1%" (you'll get that title by grinding quite a lot Cbills) run around in IS-Mechs its not because they can't afford Clan-Mechs.

Also keep in mind that many people actually have bought the first and second clan-package for money. Wonder where all those people are ...