109 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Sarlic, on 27 April 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

It's just like the Dragon and Thunderbolts, a overquirked mech. End of story.

eeeh, isn't it like a 10 or 20% quirk atm?

I do not think it's that bad.

I think it's the power void due to clan ghost heat with energy (er small, small pulse, er medium, medium pulse, alll LINKED ghost heat) (and 2 er large laser/ large pulse ghost heat, while IS are at 3).

On top of this but any 12 man of X is "OP".

I once saw a game with 14 flamer novas before in a public match and they won without any challenge because of the fact they can co ordinate in a simple way with all mechs with the same or similar build.

I think 12 man teams should be limited in CW to defending a planet your merc corps owns or maybe some 12 premade verse 12 premade.

12 man premades cause quite a bit of stir for what good it brings. Has lots of room for abuse and such where small minor problems can be magnified by 12. Would prefer if CW was limited into buckets of Pugs + small groups (2-4-ish?) and larger groups (4-8-ish? maybe up to 10?)... Would also like quirks that are region specific.

For eg the strongest large laser quirk on a stalker could be the lower side torso areas while the arm ones are weaker.

[LordBraxton]

OP has an agenda. Anyone get screens of this match where 12 stalkers killed 48 clanners?

I figured the OP would be putting screenshots of outrage up right?

[Insects]

Nerf teh 6xQQ Stalkerz naow!

[Fire for Effect]

DjPush, on 26 April 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

Nothing says awesome like 12 Large laser Stalkers. 72 Large lasers, 648 points of damage focused on the gates of Boreal. Our first wave was destroyed in seconds without a single Stalker shutting down or getting killed. I have to say it was a pretty awesome thing to see. Once our first wave was down they had no problem pushing out, hitting our mechs as they dropped out of the ship. Many were legged before they hit the ground. I have never seen so much blue. The enemy team wasted 48 clan mechs with 12 Stalkers in under 5 minutes It was amazing. I had ERLL in my Timberwolf, Warhawk and Stormcrow but was absolutely no match.

Back to puglandia until my Clan contract runs out. I'm going back to IS

funny you think against clans with half of them mad cats add in 3 Dires rest lokis is any different?

[Joseph Mallan]

DjPush, on 26 April 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

Nothing says awesome like 12 Large laser Stalkers. 72 Large lasers, 648 points of damage focused on the gates of Boreal. Our first wave was destroyed in seconds without a single Stalker shutting down or getting killed. I have to say it was a pretty awesome thing to see. Once our first wave was down they had no problem pushing out, hitting our mechs as they dropped out of the ship. Many were legged before they hit the ground. I have never seen so much blue. The enemy team wasted 48 clan mechs with 12 Stalkers in under 5 minutes It was amazing. I had ERLL in my Timberwolf, Warhawk and Stormcrow but was absolutely no match.

Back to puglandia until my Clan contract runs out. I'm going back to IS

So you are tired of tactics working?

[Vandul]

Chrome Magnus, on 26 April 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

I like the part where he could see all 12 mechs the whole time to know none of them shut down. Ok, snark off. lol I do enjoy videos of GROUPS running (and demolishing) folks with 12 of the same mech although I haven't looked for one with 12 LL stalkers. Beefs 12 gauss KC vid was fun!

I'm at 20 points (clan) for the event and haven't ran into this highly stacked, nearly all stalker groups other folks seem to find. Didn't your momma tell you not to go to that part of town after dark?

This is a good point. For all of the matches I have played, both as an organized 12 man and as a bobbing head in LFG, the matches have been pretty close.

Its another clanner "waaaaagh" post because the IS is A) Organized and has a mech (ONE MECH) that can counter their truckloads of laser vomit.

Here, have a picture of Nickelback on Alpine Peaks.

[Dino Might]

DjPush, on 26 April 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

Nothing says awesome like 12 Large laser Stalkers. 72 Large lasers, 648 points of damage focused on the gates of Boreal. Our first wave was destroyed in seconds without a single Stalker shutting down or getting killed. I have to say it was a pretty awesome thing to see. Once our first wave was down they had no problem pushing out, hitting our mechs as they dropped out of the ship. Many were legged before they hit the ground. I have never seen so much blue. The enemy team wasted 48 clan mechs with 12 Stalkers in under 5 minutes It was amazing. I had ERLL in my Timberwolf, Warhawk and Stormcrow but was absolutely no match.

Back to puglandia until my Clan contract runs out. I'm going back to IS

Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station!

Edited by Dino Might, 27 April 2015 - 03:23 AM.

[Insects]

Mister Raven, on 26 April 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

so some pubbers got stomped by a 12 man. working as intended.

Yeah they ignore the fact that any full 12 man coordinated enough to all be in the exact same mech are obviously highly coordinated. Getting that together isnt easy even in the big units and any unit with that coordination will have disciplined shot calling and planned tactics.

They probably could have stomped them with 12 Hunchbacks too.

12 ERLL Timbers on a focused target and splat down it goes in a single volley.
If none of the magical Stalkers died then obviously coordination was non existent.

[Joseph Mallan]

joelmuzz, on 27 April 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

Yeah they ignore the fact that any full 12 man coordinated enough to all be in the exact same mech are obviously highly coordinated. Getting that together isnt easy even in the big units and any unit with that coordination will have disciplined shot calling and planned tactics.

They probably could have stomped them with 12 Hunchbacks too.

12 ERLL Timbers on a focused target and splat down it goes in a single volley.
If none of the magical Stalkers died then obviously coordination was non existent.

Are you kidding back in teh day we had that kind of coordination while drunk/medicated!

[MeiSooHaityu]

Although the Stalkers can be powerful, that is not the issue here. The issue is two tiered.

1. DJ was on a less coordinated PUG team vs an Organized group Team. All that team needs to say to each other is..."Hey, first drop we all drop in Stalkers". After that, they call targets. That is going to be effective against any less organized team.

2. Most importantly, CW let's a team drop in all assaults first drop. I think this is the biggest problem currently with CW and this scenario.

I hate to say it, but a simple tonnage limit per player isn't enough. There might need to be a requirement on what lance is what mech class per drop.

I don't know a good way to do that fairly or correctly, but 12 assaults in one drop or 12 lights (light rush) in one drop shouldn't be possible.

There should be a way to stagger the mech classes of the first drop. That is the real issue here and not the Stalker's load out.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

"They can drop with 12 of them!"


Well, yes. That's one of the advantages of coordination. And unless you're proposing a change to how you deploy mechs in CW (a weight draft system by lance perhaps), this will continue to happen with teams. AND ITS NOT A BAD THING.

[Apnu]

Eldagore, on 26 April 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Eh, spawn camping and gen rush are the two biggest issue with CW right now, and keep it from working as designed IMO. The whole game is about shooting giant robots with lasers and giant guns. gen rush and Spawn camp are 100% the opposite of that.

Problem is, I do not even know if these two things are on Russ' radar at the moment.

They are on his radar, listen to Town Hall #3 from last week.

[Hotthedd]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 27 April 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

"They can drop with 12 of them!"


Well, yes. That's one of the advantages of coordination. And unless you're proposing a change to how you deploy mechs in CW (a weight draft system by lance perhaps), this will continue to happen with teams. AND ITS NOT A BAD THING.

Its not a bad thing as far as players/teams playing smart, but IMO it is a game design flaw.

I don't know how a tonnage per wave system could be enforced effectively, but it COULD be enforced for the first wave, perhaps.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 27 April 2015 - 04:10 AM, said:

Its not a bad thing as far as players/teams playing smart, but IMO it is a game design flaw.

I don't know how a tonnage per wave system could be enforced effectively, but it COULD be enforced for the first wave, perhaps.

and limit the tactics the enemy and you can use? No thanks.

[Hotthedd]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

and limit the tactics the enemy and you can use? No thanks.

Frankly, Yes.

I get that there are min/max comp teams that thrive on exploiting poor game design, and that is their idea of fun.
I just lean towards things that have more BattleTech flavor, and 12 lights or 12 assaults just don't.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 27 April 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Frankly, Yes.

I get that there are min/max comp teams that thrive on exploiting poor game design, and that is their idea of fun.
I just lean towards things that have more BattleTech flavor, and 12 lights or 12 assaults just don't.

So BattleTech doesn't have the KillerBees or Zeta Battalion(Galaxy) type units?

For every well rounded command or two there is a Hussar or Assault.

[Mawai]

DjPush, on 26 April 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

It was a PUG group. I can't blame them for the way the match went. I can't really bag on my experience either. Probably would have gone better with an organized group. I am suddenly without team now that all my team mates quit playing MWO. 50 people... whoosh.... gone.

LOL.

I think you should have pointed this out in the beginning.

Which of the following is the most likely problem?

1) 12 LL Stalkers against clan mechs

2) A organized and efficient 12 man against a random selection of PUGs?

My answer is 2 ... it would not matter what mechs the organized 12 man had ... they will wipe the floor with an uncoordinated PUG group. Period.

It just so happens that they had 12 LL Stalkers ... why? Probably because it would make them competitive against a fully organized 12 man clan drop.

Really ... you have to make comparisons that make sense. If you had been on a competitive, coordinated 12 man clan team and were wiped by the Stalkers then perhaps the Stalkers are OP or your side made a mistake. However, in a PUG vs 12 man ... what the other team has doesn't really matter that much ... as always in MWO team work is OP.

P.S. The fact that you seem to expect a random clan PUG drop to be able to effectively deal with an IS 12 man group really seems to indicate that you feel clans are so OP that they don't need team work to overcome a bunch of IS mechs ... which is probably an entirely different topic

Edited by Mawai, 27 April 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

So BattleTech doesn't have the KillerBees or Zeta Battalion(Galaxy) type units?

For every well rounded command or two there is a Hussar or Assault.

I will defer to your knowledge about the breakdown of unit types, although it was my understanding that units were generally much more diverse, with those specialized forces being subsets of much larger units.

I'm of the mindset that some enforced tonnage limit on the first drop would improve (create) role warfare, and actually make the battles more dynamic.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 27 April 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

I will defer to your knowledge about the breakdown of unit types, although it was my understanding that units were generally much more diverse, with those specialized forces being subsets of much larger units.

I'm of the mindset that some enforced tonnage limit on the first drop would improve (create) role warfare, and actually make the battles more dynamic.

We already have a max weight per player, 1/1/1/1, any more limitations and PGI may as well start picking the Mechs for us. No thank you.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I'll say this, that 12 man assault team probably would have fallen apart had their first wave been destroyed. My guess is they were counting on a massive show of force to win first drop and their later drops were probably nothing special. My guess is however, that the rest of their drop deck probably isn't needed 90%+ of the time.

Maybe running 12 assaults first drop should be allowed, but it creates a larger rift between large 12 man groups and smaller groups.

If we don't want to create more rules in game (like tonnage restrictions for first drop), then better criteria for the matchmaker is needed. Group 12 man groups with other 12 mans and group PUGs and small groups with other PUG and small groups.

Problem is, the CW population is so low right now, so it can't support proper group size matchups. That leaves the alternatives pretty limited.

We can leave things the way they are, but because of the way things are, I have no desire to play CW. I'm not the only one either, and I think that is help keeping the CW pop low. Its creating a cycle.