109 replies to this topic

[Koujo]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 April 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

2. Most importantly, CW let's a team drop in all assaults first drop. I think this is the biggest problem currently with CW and this scenario.

This is why I'll never play CW.

[Joseph Mallan]

All good points MeiSoo, but if we seperate the CW Que like we have the group/PUG Que... It'll still be just as boring.

[Hotthedd]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

We already have a max weight per player, 1/1/1/1, any more limitations and PGI may as well start picking the Mechs for us. No thank you.

Is 1/1/1/1 a definite?

I agree that is a bad solution to the problem, and doesn't even really address the issue (as per most of PGI's band-****)

Some limitations are necessary. Personally I believe MW:O could use more in some areas (sized hard points). ALL Limitations are not bad, especially if they add to the tactical complexity of the game AND give the game more BT flavor.

Please do not go to the Slippery Slope of "PGI picking our mechs for us"

Edit: Lol, the brand name for bandages was censored.

Edited by Hotthedd, 27 April 2015 - 05:31 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 27 April 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

Is 1/1/1/1 a definite?

I agree that is a bad solution to the problem, and doesn't even really address the issue (as per most of PGI's band-****)

Some limitations are necessary. Personally I believe MW:O could use more in some areas (sized hard points). ALL Limitations are not bad, especially if they add to the tactical complexity of the game AND give the game more BT flavor.

Please do not go to the Slippery Slope of "PGI picking our mechs for us"

Actually no it's not. But it was tried.

My present anti Clan drop Deck is:
Highlander
Battlemaster
Centurion
Commando

against IS opponents

Battlemaster (or Zeus)
Grasshopper
Centurion
Panther

I'll go where I want to if thats ok Hott. This isn't the debate team, I'm not getting graded.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

All good points MeiSoo, but if we seperate the CW Que like we have the group/PUG Que... It'll still be just as boring.

That may be true. CW is basic and is what it is.

Still, I feel it would be less alienating to smaller groups and PUGs.

A lot of the issues in CW is related to things like the issue that started this thread, spawn camping, meta builds, etc...

12 man vs 12 man probably hardly has a problem with this. I doubt a 12 man can spawn camp another 12 man if they talk over comms at all. Both bring meta for their side so they don't care there. Even if they try a 12 assault drop, the opposing group could probably coordinate easily and make a solid attempt to combat it.

I think that is why the big groups (8+) probably don't complain as much and are more content with the system (and that is fine for them).

The little guy (4 man and less to PUG) is the one that feels the pressure from the larger coordinated force. They are generally at a disadvantage. They can prevail, but more than often they don't.

To deal with up hill odds EVERY drop and get spawn camped, etc... gets old pretty fast. Me personally, I'd rather play with the solo queue and have the match maker set me up to win 50% of the time vs CW matchmaker giving me 10% chance of winning as a PUG.

Splitting big groups vs small groups I think would help, but the server pop probably isn't there. Its a bummer.

[Joseph Mallan]

The games I played yesterday I didn't face one 12 man, and I was still crushed. I really don't have a problem with it. its where the big boys are allowed to play. You go there to test your metal, not to have a fair and balanced fight. We have that in PUG and look how good that is rated by the player base.

[bazilbrush]

gotta say the direwolf drop was pretty funny but kinda stuffs up the rest of the dropship ,we had fun I hope you did as well

[Fire for Effect]

Koujo, on 27 April 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

This is why I'll never play CW.

and so you think it is a good idea to speak up about a topic about which you have no knowledge since you are never doing it?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

...its where the big boys are allowed to play. You go there to test your metal, not to have a fair and balanced fight...

And that's why CW will never be popular to the majority of the player base. If that is PGIs goal and what the higher competitive groups want, then I guess Mission Accomplished.

I just hope people remember this if and/or when CW numbers shrink even further. If the big boys can't find groups or players to launch against, they can't complain because it is the system they wanted in place.

Its a bummer for us smaller guys too. We would like to contribute in the lore and storyline (meat and potatoes of the game), but we are being turned away by the mechanics of the system.

Shame all around really.

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 April 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

And that's why CW will never be popular to the majority of the player base. If that is PGIs goal and what the higher competitive groups want, then I guess Mission Accomplished.

I just hope people remember this if and/or when CW numbers shrink even further. If the big boys can't find groups or players to launch against, they can't complain because it is the system they wanted in place.

Its a bummer for us smaller guys too. We would like to contribute in the lore and storyline (meat and potatoes of the game), but we are being turned away by the mechanics of the system.

Shame all around really.

If there was lore to this game Yes I would want to contribute to it. But it is just a series of meaningless fights. I did that in my basement for 2 decades.

[bazilbrush]

so much negativity youall need to get some happy pills into you

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

If there was lore to this game Yes I would want to contribute to it. But it is just a series of meaningless fights. I did that in my basement for 2 decades.

Lol, well put.

I think ultimately that is why I'm not too heart broken over ignoring CW. Your right that CW is devoid of real story. I'm just saying it above because it is the closest we have to story (attacking and defending forces and a map).

Still, I'd like the help shuffle colors on a map, its just too painful to bother with at the moment.

[Joseph Mallan]

bazilbrush, on 27 April 2015 - 05:27 AM, said:

so much negativity youall need to get some happy pills into you

I did the happy pills back in teh 80s...

I like my mood enhanced by life more.

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 April 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

Lol, well put.

I think ultimately that is why I'm not too heart broken over ignoring CW. Your right that CW is devoid of real story. I'm just saying it above because it is the closest we have to story (attacking and defending forces and a map).

Still, I'd like the help shuffle colors on a map, its just too painful to bother with at the moment.

The Map needs more Blue, you are right!

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

So you are tired of tactics working?

Is there any other tactic acceptable to the vast majority of the player base other than going in and slugging it out in short range?

[Hotthedd]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

Actually no it's not. But it was tried.

My present anti Clan drop Deck is:
Highlander
Battlemaster
Centurion
Commando

against IS opponents

Battlemaster (or Zeus)
Grasshopper
Centurion
Panther

I'll go where I want to if thats ok Hott. This isn't the debate team, I'm not getting graded.

So, then the only thing that would change on your drop deck with a 1st drop tonnage limit would be (possibly) which mech you choose first? Sounds much better than 1/1/1/1.

You are a big boy, and can say what you want. I am probably one of the biggest contributors of "likes" to many of your posts. But hyperbole? You are better than that.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 April 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

You go there to test your metal, not to have a fair and balanced fight.

If you* wanted to test your mettle, you would fight against another 12 man. CW is not hardcore mode, or team nirvana. Its just another game mode. Whether the fact that 12 mans can regularly drop against pug groups is a factor in some groups preferring CW or not, I'm not going to get into.

Quote

We have that in PUG and look how good that is rated by the player base.

It's probably rated so low because its the s.o.s. for the past 3 years. Non CW queue is also hardly fair and balanced. It tries to be, but the various differences in values of mechs makes that impossible, no matter how good the matchmaker is.



* I use 'you' here as a general 'you', not Joseph Mallan in particular.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 27 April 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hotthedd, on 27 April 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

You are a big boy, and can say what you want. I am probably one of the biggest contributors of "likes" to many of your posts. But hyperbole? You are better than that.

No... Actually I'm not. I say what I mean, I mean what I say. I don't apologize for how I say it. I never took a Debate Course in School back in the 80s so I'll strawman and Hyperbole whenever I do.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 April 2015 - 05:38 AM.

[Mystere]

MeiSooHaityu, on 27 April 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

Although the Stalkers can be powerful, that is not the issue here. The issue is two tiered.

1. DJ was on a less coordinated PUG team vs an Organized group Team. All that team needs to say to each other is..."Hey, first drop we all drop in Stalkers". After that, they call targets. That is going to be effective against any less organized team.

2. Most importantly, CW let's a team drop in all assaults first drop. I think this is the biggest problem currently with CW and this scenario.

I hate to say it, but a simple tonnage limit per player isn't enough. There might need to be a requirement on what lance is what mech class per drop.

I don't know a good way to do that fairly or correctly, but 12 assaults in one drop or 12 lights (light rush) in one drop shouldn't be possible.

There should be a way to stagger the mech classes of the first drop. That is the real issue here and not the Stalker's load out.

I am once again facing those crazy formations of old before 3/3/3/3 was implemented (e.g. light wolf packs, Steiner lances, death balls of doom, etc.) and you want to take them out again? Phooey!

Now if only poptarts also make a return.

Edited by Mystere, 27 April 2015 - 05:40 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 27 April 2015 - 05:36 AM, said:

If you wanted to test your mettle, you would fight against another 12 man. CW is not hardcore mode, or team nirvana. Its just another game mode. Whether or not the fact that 12 mans can regularly drop against pug groups is a factor in some groups preferring CW or not, I'm not going to get into.

I go into CW as a PUG knowing it will have 12 man teams. How I do is not on the team but on me. I will either carry my weight or look like a noob.

Quote

It's probably rated so low because its the s.o.s. for the past 3 years. Non CW queue is also hardly fair and balanced. It tries to be, but the various differences in values of mechs makes that impossible, no matter how good the matchmaker is.

It's rated so low cause a lot of players cannot wrap their heads around the effects of attrition on what could have been a perfectly balanced match by the numbers.

[Mystere]

Hotthedd, on 27 April 2015 - 04:10 AM, said:

Its not a bad thing as far as players/teams playing smart, but IMO it is a game design flaw.

I don't know how a tonnage per wave system could be enforced effectively, but it COULD be enforced for the first wave, perhaps.

Why not just make the 4-mech limit a maximum and not a hard requirement? Possibly even reduce the drop tonnage a wee bit.

That should help towards creating incentives for not running 4 waves each battle.