324 replies to this topic

[Caballo]

Hey, never heard about CH products... nice hardware. Had the idea of mutating my old Wingman Xtreme digital into a throttle control, but now i'll try to get one of those.

[Dihm]

I gave up trying to go back and play MW4 without a joystick, so my X52 Pro should arrive today. Excitement! After playing some MW4, MW:LL, and probably picking up Rise of Flight (who can pass up on a quality WWI sim?) I'll have to write up my impressions.

[Bishop Black]

I currently use a Logitech Freedom 2.4 Wireless Joystick. Compared to some of the other posts here it is nothing particularly fancy but it suits me just fine. I have no complaints with this product whatsoever.

[Will Hung]

I checked some YouTube and written reviews on this, the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Can you guys recommend anything better at the $30.00 price point which this joystick is at? Otherwise, this looks like it's going to be my stick to purchase.

[Hartsblade]

Dihm, on 20 January 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

I gave up trying to go back and play MW4 without a joystick, so my X52 Pro should arrive today. Excitement! After playing some MW4, MW:LL, and probably picking up Rise of Flight (who can pass up on a quality WWI sim?) I'll have to write up my impressions.

You're going to love Rise of Flight!!

[Catamount]

Long Wang, on 21 January 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

I checked some YouTube and written reviews on this, the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Can you guys recommend anything better at the $30.00 price point which this joystick is at? Otherwise, this looks like it's going to be my stick to purchase.

At $30? I'm not sure I could beat that (but I could for just a little more).

That said, you should be aware of the issues with this stick. It's very sensitive, but it's not always the most precise stick.


It also develops an annoying drift of sorts. Like mine, when centered, yaws right. Even if you recalibrate the stick, it doesn't go away (it's just the stick wearing out past the dead zone). The stick is still useable, but it's supremely annoying, and the stick is only getting worse.

In short, that $30 may look nice, but based on my stick, and reviews, you might be spending another $30 to replace it before too long at all. By contrast, my MS Force Feedback 2 lasted through about 12 years of heavy use, and cost me $100 (and can be gotten used for $50). I'm not saying get one of those, necessarily, I'm just saying you can do a lot better, possibly without spending not too much more money. If you can, I'd say extend that budget to $50, even if you have to save up a bit more, and then do some serious shopping around.

Edited by Catamount, 21 January 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Will Hung]

Catamount, on 21 January 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

At $30? I'm not sure I could beat that (but I could for just a little more).

That said, you should be aware of the issues with this stick. It's very sensitive, but it's not always the most precise stick.


It also develops an annoying drift of sorts. Like mine, when centered, yaws right. Even if you recalibrate the stick, it doesn't go away (it's just the stick wearing out past the dead zone). The stick is still useable, but it's supremely annoying, and the stick is only getting worse.

In short, that $30 may look nice, but based on my stick, and reviews, you might be spending another $30 to replace it before too long at all. By contrast, my MS Force Feedback 2 lasted through about 12 years of heavy use, and cost me $100 (and can be gotten used for $50). I'm not saying get one of those, necessarily, I'm just saying you can do a lot better, possibly without spending not too much more money. If you can, I'd say extend that budget to $50, even if you have to save up a bit more, and then do some serious shopping around.

Alrighty, this is great advice, thanks. So, what non-surplus/second-hand/refurbished $50 joystick/s do you recommend that we budget Mechwarriors should look at?

[Catamount]

Long Wang, on 22 January 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Alrighty, this is great advice, thanks. So, what non-surplus/second-hand/refurbished $50 joystick/s do you recommend that we budget Mechwarriors should look at?

I was in your spot just a bit ago, with a budget a lot like yours, and didn't find much good, I'll be honest. You know, given that Logitech makes completely awesome stuff in every other market (mice, keyboards, speakers, you name it), you think they'd sell at least one higher end joystick...

The simple reality is that making a new joystick that's good for $30 just doesn't seem to happen.
Here's what I can tell you though, and hopefully others will expand on anything I say.

First off, not buying used I could understand (some like used stuff, some don't; for me it depends), but I would highly recommend refurbished purchases, not just for joysticks, but for anything. As another user, on another forum, once pointed out to me a long time ago, the only difference between a refurbished and new unit, besides possibly missing the pretty box and other irrelevancies, is that, statistically, refurb stuff will be more reliable. The reason that quality control is higher for refurbished equipment, because as opposed to just manufacturing it and sending it on its way, your quality control often just being "we hope this factory makes your stuff right!", or maybe a cursory test, refurbished units are actually tested, usually very thoroughly, for proper function (by definition). So basically, you're paying vastly less to get vastly better quality control Even things as minor as cosmetic defects are almost always repaired (I"ve never had a cosmetically flawed refurb product, EVER).

Amazon sells refurbished stuff a lot, and all of it has been in brand-new condition (again, pretty much by definition), and the only refurbished item I've ever had break was a Razer Carcharias, and in its defense, it lasted longer than the new one before it! (really delicate headset; I gladly would pay Razer $10 more for them to make them out of slightly less ****** plastic and wiring, but I digress...)


Also, don't be too afraid of used stuff. Sellers on many sites (like Ebay and Amazon) typically outline a lot about the exact condition of an item, and both Ebay and Amazon have policies that users are on the hook for their item descriptions, so if they say "like new!" or "only cosmetic wear!", and it comes to you a worn out stick with a dead zone the size of Lake Michigan, they're liable for it. It's just something to consider. My used stick is in brand new condition

Also keep in mind that since you're on a budget, if it's a choice between a used/refurb $50 stick on sale for $30, or a new $30 stick that retails for $30, the $50 stick will be a lot nicer, so your money goes a lot further. Had you a $200 budget, it might not matter as much (though even then you could stretch it way further), but on a low budget like yours (believe me, I didn't have much of a budget either! Curse being a college student!)...


For sticks themselves, HOTAS (hands-on throttle and stick) setups are nice, but only if you have some serious money. There is one cheap HOTAS I know of, but every review I've read of it just says it's not a very good stick, so having the hands-on throttle and decent stick just isn't going to happen in that price range. $50 is the bare minimum it seems just for a decent stick, so subtracting the cost/quality to add in the big throttle just neuters the stick.


On stick possibly worth considering (yes! I'm finally moving onto recommendations! ) is the Thrustmaster T-16000M. I've never used one, but I've heard a lot of great things about it. Retail price was probably in the $50 range, and now, they're up new on that Amazon page for $35-$50, so the price is right, and like I said, it's pretty well reviewed from what I've seen. If there's one flaw it likely has, it's that the base appears to be small, so if you want a beefy base for stable lap-usage, that might not be the stick for you (apparently it's fairly heavy though, so that's good). The button placement for a few of the buttons is also asinine.

Another option would be the Saitek Cyborg FLY5 (right in the $50 retail range you should be looking in). I've heard a lot of people say the old Cyborg sticks were better, but some of the Amazon review there seem pretty good. On the other hand, other reviews are not as praising . Apparently, it's an okay stick, but absurdly delicate (so you're back to the Logitech Extreme3D problem).



Beyond that, I'm not sure I could offer many recommendations, even cautious ones, in this price range. Part of the problem is that the joystick market just isn't what it used to be. If Microsoft still made Sidewinder sticks, I'd tell you to stop reading, go out right now, and buy whatever Sidewinder Precision stick was on the market (another user on these forums previously called them the "Holy Grail of joysticks, and I tend to agree as far as all-in-one sticks), but they don't

So most of the market is either cheap crap, or expensive HOTAS setups for simulator junkies (and those start at $100). You're trying to find something in between, and that puts you in a tough spot. Believe me, I know, because I was there just a short time ago.


That's why I finally just said "to hell with it" and bought another Force Feedback 2, used, and I haven't regretted it for an instant! (there's no customization software anymore, since that was designed for Windows 98... yes, it's that old. However, Windows fully supports the stick, and games have their own mapping these days, so it's not a problem for me). Again, not telling you to necessarily go my route, I'm just saying I was in your spot, and I found the market to be.... lacking, to say the least.

I hope at least some of what I've said is helpful though.


EDIT: Also, check your messages

Edited by Catamount, 22 January 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Dihm]

Hartsblade, on 21 January 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

You're going to love Rise of Flight!!

Sweet! Just waiting for Amazon to get all my trade-in DS, XBox, and Wii games that were gathering dust. Practically paid for the x52 by themselves.

Initial impressions of the x52 Pro: Build quality is amazing compared to all the other joysticks I've owned. Finding a way to use ALL the buttons is a bit difficult, and I haven't even bothered using the pinkie "shift" button to add even more functionality. MW4 is infinitely more enjoyable than with keyboard/mouse. MW:LL... yeah, spent a few hours trying to get the joystick set up for that, no joy. PITA. Even more so than getting it set up for MW4. The programming software, after you get used to it, works very well. Make sure you get the drivers/software from the Saitek site, and not off the bundled disk. What was on the CD wasn't really compatible with Win 7 64-bit.

Now I just need to download Rise of Flight and get up in the air with it.

[Catamount]

I never bothered getting MWLL's mechs set up with a stick, but I did try it with the VTOL's aerospace fighters and it worked decently.

In terms of air combat, I'm way better off than with a mouse/kb, but you have to ramp the sensitivity up by about a factor of four for it to work correctly (at least with me sticks), and by the time you do, precise aiming gets to be way more difficult.

[Dihm]

I can't seem to get MWLL to recognize the throttle or the y-axis. I can turn right/left, but not go up/down. It is not in even the slightest way a user friendly process.

Tried a bunch of the different automapper/joystick.cfg/.pr0 files and such, no luck. I did end up flying an aerospace fighter around a bit with the mouse/keyboard. Man, the flight "physics" is weird! Feels more like running around in the sky than flying.

[Catamount]

hmm, I never had problems just using the manual mapper in the launcher.

What kind of stick do you have?

[Dihm]

x52 Pro

[Hartsblade]

Dihm, on 23 January 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

Sweet! Just waiting for Amazon to get all my trade-in DS, XBox, and Wii games that were gathering dust. Practically paid for the x52 by themselves.

Initial impressions of the x52 Pro: Build quality is amazing compared to all the other joysticks I've owned. Finding a way to use ALL the buttons is a bit difficult, and I haven't even bothered using the pinkie "shift" button to add even more functionality. MW4 is infinitely more enjoyable than with keyboard/mouse. MW:LL... yeah, spent a few hours trying to get the joystick set up for that, no joy. PITA. Even more so than getting it set up for MW4. The programming software, after you get used to it, works very well. Make sure you get the drivers/software from the Saitek site, and not off the bundled disk. What was on the CD wasn't really compatible with Win 7 64-bit.

Now I just need to download Rise of Flight and get up in the air with it.

Using a stick for MWLL can be a real pain in the butt, especially for aerospace and vtol. I actually use a joystick/mouse combo for mechs where the stick is for throttle and turning and the mouse for aiming. CryEngine 2 just does not like multiply joysticks and the flight model is very limited, but I think the MWLL Devs have done a nice job trying to adapt the engine.

Here are a few links to some helpful x52 based threads over at MWLL:

Another Saitek X52 Thread

How do I set up an X52 pro joystick?

MWLL WIKI Joystick set up

Hope those help.

As I've said before since MWO used CryEngine 3 I have high hopes for more inclusive joystick/multiple joystick support

[XGhostX]

Thrustmast T.Flight Hotas X

Almost exactly the same as when I used it for Mercs with some updates....plus its cheap at under 40 bucks

[Catamount]

I linked above to that Thrustmaster HOTAS, but as I noted, the stick isn't as good as others in the same price range, in terms of the stick itself, at least according to reviews (the deadzone is reportedly comparitively huge).

Will it matter for piloting a mech? I honestly don't know how sensitive a stick has to be for piloting a mech, though I suppose it's not nearly so serious a drawback as it would be in a serious flightsim.


I guess it's a matter of priorities at that price range (good stick vs mediocre stick and great throttle)

Edited by Catamount, 23 January 2012 - 12:25 PM.

[Dihm]

Hmmm, slight issue I'm having with the x52 Pro throttle. It doesn't seem to actually go up to 100% speed in MW4, even though in the calibration it isn't showing that dead spot. Maybe this is due to there being a forward/reverse point on the throttle in that game?

[Gremlich Johns]

Pht, on 17 January 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'd love to find a place to get a custom made beehive spring in a spring setup to replace the originals.

ever go to a watch/clock repair shop to look for such things?

[AnimalC4]

I've got three MS Sidewinder PP2's in the cupboard sitll from MW4 days.. Soon as they stopped making them I grabbed a couple and everyone thought I was crazy.... Keen As!

[Will Hung]

Catamount, on 22 January 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

So most of the market is either cheap crap, or expensive HOTAS setups for simulator junkies (and those start at $100). You're trying to find something in between, and that puts you in a tough spot. Believe me, I know, because I was there just a short time ago.

That's why I finally just said "to hell with it" and bought another Force Feedback 2, used, and I haven't regretted it for an instant! (there's no customization software anymore, since that was designed for Windows 98... yes, it's that old. However, Windows fully supports the stick, and games have their own mapping these days, so it's not a problem for me). Again, not telling you to necessarily go my route, I'm just saying I was in your spot, and I found the market to be.... lacking, to say the least.

I hope at least some of what I've said is helpful though.

Your advice will help not only me, but just about everyone else in this situation. Thanks dude.