176 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 29 April 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

Its like you didn't even watch the videos, where he alphas, THEN fires the weapons in half groups. Stalker hits 7 half volleys and overheats. Wubhawk hits 7 half volleys, and can still keep firing.

He even mentions the hardpoint placement is an advantage to the Stalker.

Ultimatum may be a hard IS leaning poster, but the videos addressed your shiteposting crymore antics.

The videos are made in the training grounds, or were when i looked at them. Ghost heat still exists on 3xLL in training.

And the post in this thread that i quoted said, and i quote

"how did you arrive at 33.6 heat?"

When it is extremely obvious where he arrived at that value, since it is the value for firing 2 groups of 3, and not alphaing

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 29 April 2015 - 06:10 AM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Widowmaker1981, on 29 April 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

The videos are made in the training grounds, or were when i looked at them. Ghost heat still exists on 3xLL in training.

ACTUALLY, we did a private match to test the Stalker firing, where ghost heat DOESN'T exist. Notice that's me in the Zeus he's shooting at with the Stalker!

Next pointless quibble?

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 29 April 2015 - 06:09 AM.

[CygnusX7]

Everyday at least 1 person dies while in a battle against a 4N who then turns around and blames their mistakes on quirks.

If I ran out into the open every match I'd be absolutely pummeled by dual gauss ppc direwolves.
So I don't... I try and protect my mech so I'm still putting out damage at the end of a match.

Just play the ******* game.

Edited by CygnusX7, 29 April 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Mercules]

The Mechromancer, on 28 April 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

why does everyone turn this into a CW argument?

the 4N is overpowered in every mode.

Not exactly.

You see, in CW you can't easily flank the enemy. On a normal map there are choke points, but there are also multiple ways through cover in which you can flank the enemy and Stalkers die very easily to flanking attacks. In CW you are often fighting through one particular choke point and any flank would require running a VERY long way(on most CW maps) for a flank. Since Clan doesn't have a really good solid FAST mech that goes 150+ kph they are not going to be able to pull that off in CW.

So now you have to fight against the Stalker's strengths which is a fight in it's limited front arc.

[Davegt27]

Quote

the STK is so damn powerful because the Gargoyle and Warhawk are DOA.

Got the free Warhawk Sunday played with it for a bit and realized it was a hunk of junk and sold it lol

Can’t speak for the STK but I would guess it has enough armor to allow it to use its weapons before it get blown off the map


We used to have a saying in the USAF "don't complain you will only make things worse"

Please please don't complain about my Gargoyle it’s soft but fun to play and it does not over heat

No one can say the Gargoyle is OP let’s just leave it alone

[Ultimax]

Widowmaker1981, on 29 April 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Ultimatum, comparing weapons in a vacuum and pretending people alpha 6LL stalkers when he knows damn well that they fire in 2 groups of 3.

be less biased please. You and i both know the Stalker is far superior to the Warhawk, because of hitboxes and hardpoint placement.

Have you at least read my other posts in this thread?

Have you watched the videos where the STK-4N Overheats on the 7th 3xLLAS volley and the WHK doesn't?

I've said REPEATEDLY that the Stalker has better weapon placement.

I'm challenging people when they argue QUIRKS and HEAT VALUES and RAW FIREPOWER - because they are wrong.

Some misguided notion that the Stalker can "alpha and not heat up" or "alternate fire and not heat up" - both of which are false claims.



Yes, the Stalker has superior placement - I have never once said otherwise and state it myself.


On the other hand the WHK is faster (linear speed), has faster torso yaw speed and greater torso yaw, it coolsdown faster and can now run a completely asymmetrical version of 4x CLPLS.

The STK-4N is the mech I'd rather play in CW because of how the mode is designed, the 4x CLPL WHK is the one I do play in the public queues - because speed and agility are pretty useful when you have to rely on yourself more (and the opportunities to hump a ridge all day unmolested are significantly less)


If they gave me some high energy mounts for my WHK, it would be my outright favorite mech. (I hope they do this, even though it's not in the cards).

Widowmaker1981, on 29 April 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

The videos are made in the training grounds, or were when i looked at them. Ghost heat still exists on 3xLL in training.

And the post in this thread that i quoted said, and i quote

"how did you arrive at 33.6 heat?"

When it is extremely obvious where he arrived at that value, since it is the value for firing 2 groups of 3, and not alphaing

I re-did the test when you brought it up, it was a good catch that you made and it was worth re-doing the test with Mirumotos's generous donation of his free time.


Now you can go watch it, and see that the Warhawk is still capable of more sustainable fire.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 29 April 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[Almond Brown]

I am smelling a LL Ghost Heat of 2 return on the horizon. Thanks everyone.

Now to get ahead of the curve and figure out which weapon will be next on the "Whine List of the Month".

[Ultimax]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 29 April 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

Ultimatum may be a hard IS leaning poster, but the videos addressed your shiteposting crymore antics.

The funny part is that I am not.

I am a powergamer, I will play whatever is the best.

I really don't care about IS or Clan for any lore reason - that's irrelevant to me.


I want more of my mechs to be great, so I can enjoy them - my stable is roughly 50/50 - and will tip toward clan when Wave 3 is released.

[ILikePeaches]

Mercules, on 29 April 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Not exactly.

You see, in CW you can't easily flank the enemy. On a normal map there are choke points, but there are also multiple ways through cover in which you can flank the enemy and Stalkers die very easily to flanking attacks. In CW you are often fighting through one particular choke point and any flank would require running a VERY long way(on most CW maps) for a flank. Since Clan doesn't have a really good solid FAST mech that goes 150+ kph they are not going to be able to pull that off in CW.

So now you have to fight against the Stalker's strengths which is a fight in it's limited front arc.

Heaven forbid clanners actually have to use some skill and fight a battle where they can't just peek and put up laser walls. IS rarely wins unless they've got experienced pilots that can fulfill multiple roles and fight strategically. We're always attempting to flank your Stormcrows and decent speed heavy mechs in CW so I don't see how you can even whine about doing it to a slow stream of STKs. I hope PGI just throws in melee all of a sudden and we can start punching clanners in the face. That'll give them something to cry about when they can't dominate almost every CW map. But threads like these just show the mindset of your typical clanner pilot: Entitled, egotistical, and afraid of a challenging fight.

Edited by ILikePeaches, 29 April 2015 - 07:35 AM.

[CygnusX7]

I drive both sides and for my piloting abilities they really do seem pretty even.
One will tank less but can fire more.
The other can tank more but has a little less range.

It all comes down to the pilot and some pilots are better than others.
One complains the other doesn't.

Meta Direwolf versus Meta Stalker
Meta Timberwolf versus Meta Thunderbolt
Meta Stormcrow versus Meta Wolverine
Meta Kitfox versus Meta Firestarter

You might laugh about the kitfox against a FS but if you're piloting it right you realize and make use of ECM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Almond Brown, on 29 April 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

I am smelling a LL Ghost Heat of 2 return on the horizon. Thanks everyone.

Now to get ahead of the curve and figure out which weapon will be next on the "Whine List of the Month".

IS LPL.

[Roadkill]

Ultimatum X, on 29 April 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

The funny part is that I am not.

I am a powergamer, I will play whatever is the best.

I really don't care about IS or Clan for any lore reason - that's irrelevant to me.


I want more of my mechs to be great, so I can enjoy them - my stable is roughly 50/50 - and will tip toward clan when Wave 3 is released.

Yep. This.

In fact "Roadkill" is an old MechWarrior RPG character who started out and worked his way up as Kurita (reaching Sho-Sa, 2nd Sword of Light), was given honorary rank of Major within the Knights of Davion for heroic actions, was later "captured" by Ghost Bear, and then challenged and fought his way up to the rank of Star Captain.

I play both sides and like both sides.

[Ragtag soldier]

clearly the LL stalker is OP because it's able to compete with a clan mech 20 tones lighter than it favorably, so PGI should nerf it before clan players realize they might need to not bumrush everything.

[The Mechromancer]

CygnusX7, on 29 April 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

I drive both sides and for my piloting abilities they really do seem pretty even.
One will tank less but can fire more.
The other can tank more but has a little less range.

It all comes down to the pilot and some pilots are better than others.
One complains the other doesn't.

Meta Direwolf versus Meta Stalker
Meta Timberwolf versus Meta Thunderbolt
Meta Stormcrow versus Meta Wolverine
Meta Kitfox versus Meta Firestarter

You might laugh about the kitfox against a FS but if you're piloting it right you realize and make use of ECM.

Every example but the last was a much larger clan mech vs IS.... IS has more tonnage to work with...

Ragtag soldier, on 29 April 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

clearly the LL stalker is OP because it's able to compete with a clan mech 20 tones lighter than it favorably, so PGI should nerf it before clan players realize they might need to not bumrush everything.

1. Stalker wrecks the Hellbringer.. It doesn't "compete"

2. The IS are the ones who bum rush and get away with it.

[Vandul]

FatYak, on 28 April 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

Speed buffs to the Lynx and Kitfox as well as a redesign of the Lynx's arms to reduce the hitbox size by changing the layout of the weapons

Catapult called, said get in line.

[CygnusX7]

The Mechromancer, on 29 April 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

Every example but the last was a much larger clan mech vs IS.... IS has more tonnage to work with...

Class vs Class. Besides Clan weapons weigh less.

[Mercules]

ILikePeaches, on 29 April 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

Heaven forbid clanners actually have to use some skill and fight a battle where they can't just peek and put up laser walls. IS rarely wins unless they've got experienced pilots that can fulfill multiple roles and fight strategically. We're always attempting to flank your Stormcrows and decent speed heavy mechs in CW so I don't see how you can even whine about doing it to a slow stream of STKs. I hope PGI just throws in melee all of a sudden and we can start punching clanners in the face. That'll give them something to cry about when they can't dominate almost every CW map. But threads like these just show the mindset of your typical clanner pilot: Entitled, egotistical, and afraid of a challenging fight.

IS can most certainly win. I know this since my unit switches between IS and Clan. Also I love how pointing out a case/fact that contradicts someone WHINING about the Stalker being OP everywhere and saying, "No, not everywhere but CW does lend itself to Stalkers." is me whining.... ?????

CW does play into a Stalker's strength which is pointing in one direct and firing. Because of the gates Long Range Laser battles through the gates play right into the Stalker's strengths which is how many teams play and is definitely how Clans were playing until recently.

You know what beats Stalker laser poke? You are going to laugh... a bunch of clan mechs that all brought a few LRMs. With a 12 man where every clan pilot brought at least an LRM 10 tacked onto their mech Stalkers suddenly die if they decide they want to hang out in the open and shoot lasers. I know, it's totally ridiculous to see LRMs in organized group play.

[Gyrok]

CygnusX7, on 29 April 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Class vs Class. Besides Clan weapons weigh less.

IS has higher tonnage drop decks, with lighter mechs comparing favorably to heavier clan mechs was the point.

If Clans need a heavier mech to compete with a lighter mech, why is there a discrepancy in dropship tonnage?

Edited by Gyrok, 29 April 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

The Mechromancer, on 29 April 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

Every example but the last was a much larger clan mech vs IS.... IS has more tonnage to work with...

Wolverine and Stormcrow are both 55 tonne mechs.


Though, not sure why Clans got less tonnage, other than some misplaced homage to TT lore.

[Novawrecker]

Widowmaker1981, on 29 April 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

Um, what?

No seriously, that makes no sense at all.

All Clan players are sheep? for following the masses and playing clans? despite the giganitic population imbalance AWAY from clans? or is it for using only Timbers, Hellbringer and Stormcrows? because that is based on the fact that they are empirically better than the alternatives, something which is not actually true of stalkers.

Hey man, this was based on YOUR statement. Never said anything about you making sense

You say IS players are sheeps due to playing Stalkers? By your logic, that makes you clanners even worse sheep for running Timbers. Pot calling the Kettle out much?

Joseph Mallan, on 29 April 2015 - 04:13 AM, said:

Actually No. My only Stalker is teh Misery.

Tell that to the Grand Poobah of To Be Herded above ...

Edited by Novawrecker, 29 April 2015 - 10:09 AM.