212 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Tesunie, on 15 May 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

It's kinda funny, considering it has survived long enough to expend not only all it's LRM ammo, but also it's SRM ammo, many times. People seem to take it out piecemeal, like they can't hit a slow moving Locust for some reason. Oops. There goes an arm. That was the other side torso (weaponless now). I didn't need that leg. Oh no. Not the other side torso. Can you just... Ummm... kill me now?

I think people are so use to hitting faster Locusts (because it is apparently a sin to go slow in a light mech or something), so they over lead and lose track on the slow locust. (Let me just say, my fast locust, one hit, and it seems to be dead right there.)

reminds me of that time I saw a 4 man team of 2 cicadas (4 AC 2's) and 2 Locust (2 AC 2's) , they did better then I exxpected.

[mailin]

One thing I didn't see on here, is that Artemis, in addition to taking an extra ton per launcher, also takes one additional critical space per launcher. Sometimes that extra space is a deal breaker. Also, both of those are the reasons that generally it is a better idea to take artemis on larger launcher rather than the smaller ones. This is especially true if the choice is between one or two lrm 20s or 4 smaller launchers.

[overwraith]

Which speeds up targeting more, Artemis, or BAP?

[Tesunie]

overwraith, on 15 May 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Which speeds up targeting more, Artemis, or BAP?

Artemis. As BAP does nothing for missile lock on times.

[overwraith]

But it says right in the description in the mech lab that it speeds up targeting data. Does that not mean what I think it means?

Edited by overwraith, 15 May 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[Nightshade24]

overwraith, on 15 May 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

But it says right in the description in the mech lab that it speeds up targeting data. Does that not mean what I think it means?

When you go select or "lock" on a mech, it takes a bit for you to see it's health and weapons and such. further away you are the longer it takes.

BAP makes you get that data faster.

[Tesunie]

overwraith, on 15 May 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

But it says right in the description in the mech lab that it speeds up targeting data. Does that not mean what I think it means?

Speeds up Targeting Data. What this means is it will bring up the damage display (paperdoll) of your target sooner/faster. This does not effect missile locks.

However, BAP does have some other helpful affects for LRMs (or even SSRMs). It can disable any (single) ECM unit that gets close to you, keeping you able to continue to throw LRMs at targets farther away. It also can extend your sensor/lock on ranges, but this is of minor use considering LRMs are most effective between 500-200m. Anything near 850-1000m are going to probably miss. It also can let you target any nearby shut down mechs, but this is of limited use do to it's proximity.

BAP's increase to targeting data is the same as the Command Console. Neither one makes missile locks faster to obtain.

TAG, NARC and Artemis are the gears that speed up missile lock on times. (There is more interaction between those systems, but I wont cover it here unless you need me to.)

Nightshade24, on 15 May 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

When you go select or "lock" on a mech, it takes a bit for you to see it's health and weapons and such. further away you are the longer it takes.

BAP makes you get that data faster.

Makes it good for brawlers (knowing where to hit sooner) primarily, or really good snipers.

Edited by Tesunie, 15 May 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Tesunie, on 15 May 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

However, BAP does have some other helpful affects for LRMs (or even SSRMs). It can disable any (single) ECM unit that gets close to you, keeping you able to continue to throw LRMs at targets farther away

BAP doesn't disable the enemy ECM. It cuts through one layer for you and you only, and only within the BAP's range. This means that if you lock a target under one layer of ECM, the BAP will allow you to use that for weapon locks (LRMs and Streaks) and targeting data as long as the target is within the Probe range of you. Allies don't get this penetration effect, they can only piggyback off of your target lock- this means you standing next to an ECM unit does not on its own let an ally lock that target- you have to lock it yourself for them, like a spotter locking a target behind cover.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter how many BAP/AP carriers you have near the enemy ECM, you can only cut through a single layer of ECM. Even if your whole team has BAP or AP onboard and active (that's twelve units), if two ECM bubbles are overlapping, the zone of overlap is dead to you.

[Tesunie]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 15 May 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

BAP doesn't disable the enemy ECM. It cuts through one layer for you and you only, and only within the BAP's range. This means that if you lock a target under one layer of ECM, the BAP will allow you to use that for weapon locks (LRMs and Streaks) and targeting data as long as the target is within the Probe range of you. Allies don't get this penetration effect, they can only piggyback off of your target lock- this means you standing next to an ECM unit does not on its own let an ally lock that target- you have to lock it yourself for them, like a spotter locking a target behind cover.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter how many BAP/AP carriers you have near the enemy ECM, you can only cut through a single layer of ECM. Even if your whole team has BAP or AP onboard and active (that's twelve units), if two ECM bubbles are overlapping, the zone of overlap is dead to you.

You sound like you are talking about TAG, which punches through ECM but doesn't disable it. TAG also doesn't work if the unit TAGing is under ECM's effects, even for themselves.

BAP actually disables ECM, just like an ECM set up for ECCM (counter mode). BAP only disables one ECM per BAP, just like one Counter mode ECM can only counder a single enemy ECM. You can only ever place a single BAP on your mech, and if you have BAP and ECM, BAP's ability to counter ECM is negated and you'd have to use ECM in counter mode to counter ECM.

AP? Not sure what this short hand means...

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Active Probe.

I'm going off of past experiences with the Beagle Active Probe- I've seen no patch notes that indicate it's changed over time other than its base range being extended at one point. I only have TAG on one 'mech, and that functions rather differently as well.

[Kiiyor]

Catalina Steiner, on 29 April 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

This is spectacular. How did you go about setting it up? I did something similar with SRM's a while ago.

[Tesunie]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 15 May 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

Active Probe.

I'm going off of past experiences with the Beagle Active Probe- I've seen no patch notes that indicate it's changed over time other than its base range being extended at one point. I only have TAG on one 'mech, and that functions rather differently as well.

Test it. If you have enough friends, have one group take some ECM, and another group take an equal amount of BAP. Then have the two groups walk on top of each other and see what happens.

From my understanding and what I've seen in the game, it should disable one ECM for every BAP that is within a certain distance. If you have three BAPs in range of three enemy ECM units, all their ECM should be disabled. This is what I've experienced with my own matches and on my SSRM mechs.

When I get close to enemy ECM with my BAP, it crosses out the enemy ECM, indicating it has been disabled. If this is incorrect, I'd like someone to confirm it (or I can stop telling people wrong information).

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Tesunie, on 16 May 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Test it. If you have enough friends, have one group take some ECM, and another group take an equal amount of BAP. Then have the two groups walk on top of each other and see what happens.

From my understanding and what I've seen in the game, it should disable one ECM for every BAP that is within a certain distance. If you have three BAPs in range of three enemy ECM units, all their ECM should be disabled. This is what I've experienced with my own matches and on my SSRM mechs.

When I get close to enemy ECM with my BAP, it crosses out the enemy ECM, indicating it has been disabled. If this is incorrect, I'd like someone to confirm it (or I can stop telling people wrong information).

This is troubling for me too- I don't think I'll have an opportunity to test it under controlled circumstances anytime soon. If anyone else out there is monitoring this thread and can test, especially if video can be provided as well, I'd really appreciate it. Honestly, I'd rather be proven wrong on this one, given that the effect I've been able to ascribe to Active Probes is considerably weaker than the effect purported here and at least a bit weaker than the effect I've been able to relate to it.

On a related note, last I was aware, TAG stopped doing anything if the TAG wielder was within an ECM bubble (for no reason I can discern.) Since I may be misinformed on other informational gear, can anyone confirm that this either still is the same or has changed?

[zudukai]

Catalina Steiner, on 02 May 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

Do not mix-and-match your loadouts; LRM's are the most "all in" weapon in the game. They are poor secondaries.
Victor Morson

what a joke, biggest joke in this thread.

LRM's are great suppression tools, however you need a minimum count, and right now, that sits around 15, try three lrm 5's, with a heavy direct fire loadout, you will be able to do more damage and suppress more mechs by making people hide whenever they see the "incoming missiles" warning, hell, if you are lucky, the guy you were about to shoot just turned around and let you shoot his back.

[Tesunie]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 16 May 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

This is troubling for me too- I don't think I'll have an opportunity to test it under controlled circumstances anytime soon. If anyone else out there is monitoring this thread and can test, especially if video can be provided as well, I'd really appreciate it. Honestly, I'd rather be proven wrong on this one, given that the effect I've been able to ascribe to Active Probes is considerably weaker than the effect purported here and at least a bit weaker than the effect I've been able to relate to it.

On a related note, last I was aware, TAG stopped doing anything if the TAG wielder was within an ECM bubble (for no reason I can discern.) Since I may be misinformed on other informational gear, can anyone confirm that this either still is the same or has changed?

I'd love to find out one way or the other. Like you, I'd rather be proven correct or incorrect in a definitive manner. I meet up with a group on Mondays. I might be able to test this with them, if they are willing to do it for a match. Sadly, I don't record my matches (as I don't know how and don't like really pushing my computer).

As far as I know, that is how TAG works. If the TAG user is inside ECM's effects, then TAG does not work (not even for themselves).

[Catalina Steiner]

New video tutorials uploaded...

Thanks Faythofthelost of ORMC for help!

[Johny Rocket]

This is still my favorite mech. This build is a beautiful brute that begs to be played aggressively.
Please excuse the mediocre piloting, I'm a joystick purist.


It does area denial very well, if I want to go somewhere I just clean it out first. Best example is when I stalk the Timberwolf, I see where he's at because of the smoke but to many red doritos on my side of the hill.

The KTOs built right can take an incredible amount of damage for a 55t running an xl.
I agree they are a must to have and Master.

[OznerpaG]

Tractor Joe, on 23 May 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

This is still my favorite mech. This build is a beautiful brute that begs to be played aggressively.
Please excuse the mediocre piloting, I'm a joystick purist.


It does area denial very well, if I want to go somewhere I just clean it out first. Best example is when I stalk the Timberwolf, I see where he's at because of the smoke but to many red doritos on my side of the hill.

The KTOs built right can take an incredible amount of damage for a 55t running an xl.
I agree they are a must to have and Master.

nice work! looked at kintaros in my LRM heyday but i prefer high-mounted TAG which the kintaro can't supply

tip - if you use the LRM5 cooldown module you can get the same rate of fire with 1 less LRM5 mount, saving you 3t for ammo/DHS

[Johny Rocket]

JagdFlanker, on 23 May 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

nice work! looked at kintaros in my LRM heyday but i prefer high-mounted TAG which the kintaro can't supply

tip - if you use the LRM5 cooldown module you can get the same rate of fire with 1 less LRM5 mount, saving you 3t for ammo/DHS

Thanks

Yeah thats why I prefer baps to tag.

Running T5 lrm5 cooldown.

Tried the 4 launchers, on chainfire, it just doesn't rock em as hard. I try to be pretty sparing with the ammo though If you watch it in HD you can see I managed to get 1350 lrms in there.
Still a viable build in the ecm cloud.

Haven't played this mech much since I went on a spending spree and have 10 mechs that are a variation of this build in various 55t mediums. The Griffin 2N with 1 ERLL and 4 lrm5 is right on the 18C's heals, ecm helps a lot.

Edit
when I switched from 2 ML to 1 ERLL I gave up 2 tons of ammo and a dhs.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 23 May 2015 - 05:01 PM.

[michaelius]

Does Artemis help with clan LRM launchers working in waves compared to one shot IS LRMs ?

I'm running two adders now one with 2 LRM10+artemis and one with 2 LRM10 and it's really hard to spot any diffrence in how they operate.