212 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

LRM-20 should be better for being 10 tons

[Chados]

I'm bumping this topic again. Mods...I reiterate: This ought to be a sticky. It's one of the most helpful guides I've read. It's almost enough to convince me to go Steiner! Well, no, not really. But here in the DCMS we give credit where it's due. Domo arigato, Catalina.

[Chados]

I got BRAWLING experience points in my C4 in the last drop. MPL for the win!

[Kjudoon]

Chados, on 15 August 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

I got BRAWLING experience points in my C4 in the last drop. MPL for the win!

Ah yes. Nothing finer when the archer kills a swordsman with their dagger.

That's how my Pain Train got it's single ML renamed the "Mighty Medium Lazor of DOOOOOooooommmmmm!"

[Tesunie]

bad arcade kitty, on 21 August 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

when you already fix your guide, i met some people who were fooled by this quoted part and went lrm trebuchet instead of hunchback 4j

At one point, particularly before quirks I'll admit, Trebs and Griffins were considered the best LRM skirmishers in the game. Their speed and jump capabilities make them able to keep enemies at a distance, while maintaining their own locks.

The 4J is, before quirks and particularly after quirks, a very good LRM medium still. Has plenty of back up weapon hard points, with a high mounted TAG location, combined with decent hit boxes and good speeds.

Each have their place, depending upon what one wishes to use and how they wish to use it. Though I've never used (nor been interested in) a Treb, I've still seen them used to good effect.

(I'm sure you already knew this, but I felt it was worth mentioning at least anyway.)

[Spare Parts Bin]

Wow, I just skimmed this guide and I see that I will return often. I hope I am not asking an answered question but won't the Stormcrow work as an LRM boat?

[Tesunie]

Spare Parts Bin, on 21 August 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Wow, I just skimmed this guide and I see that I will return often. I hope I am not asking an answered question but won't the Stormcrow work as an LRM boat?

Very well could. I don't see any reason why not. It's fast, has enough hard points for the task. Should be as efficient (as far as boating wise) as the Streak-Crow is with missiles. (I personally would suggest placing those close range weapons as well... But that's just me.)

[bad arcade kitty]

Spare Parts Bin, on 21 August 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Wow, I just skimmed this guide and I see that I will return often. I hope I am not asking an answered question but won't the Stormcrow work as an LRM boat?

it's a waste of the chassis though

stormcrow is mostly good because it's pretty nimble and have very good hitboxes... both of these aren't that important for a lurmboat... but having jj (1-2) is important for a lurmboat because it allows to quickly relocate to find a better place to shoot your lurms... and stormcrow doesn't have them; still it's pretty fast and have a lot of podspace

at least don't build it as a pure lurmboat, pick a couple of lrm-15 launchers and a few (4-5) med lasers

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 22 August 2015 - 02:27 AM.

[Catalina Steiner]

I have removed (and reported) two posts of users who might start to harass me in the game and in the forums. I won't let them discredit my hard work in this guide. Please be fair and post constructive criticsm.

[Chados]

And I think this thread needs to be stickied, Catalina. I continue to post in it from time to time specifically to bump it and hope that the mods see the need. The work you and Tesunie have done to promote LRM tactics (and some of IraqiWalker's posts on the subject) is a tremendous body of knowledge for the LRM community and helps to counter negative commentary on a very misunderstood weapons system in the game. This and Tesunie's posts on the subject changed the game for me at a time when I was really struggling. Thanks to the LRM, I've had the time to learn more about the game and how it works, and as others have predicted, thanks to what I've learned, I've dropped a few tImes in direct fire builds like the Jester and managed not to embarrass myself.

LRMs are easy to learn in indirect mode, thus new-player friendly, but are very hard to master in all their forms and tactics, thus continuing to be challenging as a player's PSR rises. There should be a ranking system similar to martial arts for LRM players. While you and Tesunie would be advanced black belts, I'd be about a blue, I think.

Edited to ensure I gave credit where credit is due. If I've missed any LRM gurus who have reached out to me in the past, I apologize.

Edited by Chados, 22 August 2015 - 04:54 AM.

[Tesunie]

I second the motion to sticky this thread. It's a rather complete compilation of LRM knowledge (even if it's geared towards boating, which does happen to be the most common way people field LRMs).

[Leone]

Spare Parts Bin, on 21 August 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Wow, I just skimmed this guide and I see that I will return often. I hope I am not asking an answered question but won't the Stormcrow work as an LRM boat?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ce44f9d3cc45e4f

The NarcCrow is a frontline grunt designed to be a spotter for newbie LRM players, as well as utilizing the 'narc and retreat while lrming' tactic itself. I bring that mech into CW, and it is one of my better Ryoken builds.

So yes, yes you can make a decent LRM-crow.

~Leone.

[Kjudoon]

I know of a few who run lrm stormcrows.  They tick me off intensely when i face them.  A good lrmisher.I so hate touchscreen keyboards.

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 August 2015 - 04:46 PM.

[Tesunie]

Leone, on 22 August 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ce44f9d3cc45e4f

The NarcCrow is a frontline grunt designed to be a spotter for newbie LRM players, as well as utilizing the 'narc and retreat while lrming' tactic itself. I bring that mech into CW, and it is one of my better Ryoken builds.

So yes, yes you can make a decent LRM-crow.

~Leone.

Sounds like my Raven 3L...

Can work surprisingly well, especially if my team has other LRM users to take advantage of the NARC I place.

[Tesunie]

Kjudoon, on 24 August 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

So sayeth our expert from Tier 6... The Hidden Bucket!

More like spammer of the forums, considering he made the exact same kind of post in one of my LRM guides...

Just reporting him for spam at this point. (And for promoting the potential use of cheats.)

Oh, and here as well from what I can tell...

I think someone is angry or something...


Oh... and here as well...

Last edit, really. But if you look at his posting history, it seems a lot of his posts are like that. Find something to be angry and accusing about, and post it everywhere on the forums. Right now, it's Aim Bots and Wall Hacks.


Catalina Steiner, just ask for this post to be deleted and I'll remove it, or if his post is deleted, this one can go too. (As it has no relevance to the topic at hand either.)

Edited by Tesunie, 24 August 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[Chados]

That's a shame that people feel the need to do that. But this thread still needs to be stickied.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Yozzman, on 29 July 2015 - 11:58 PM, said:

Sorry this is BS, this is the exact reason why people curse at people boating.

Just be in the group... Not behind it :/
Shorter distance to target so a greater change to keep the target lock and hit.

And if needed you can use direct fire weapons to push with the group

+ it makes you jenner-food

[Takashi Uchida]

This is a good guide, I learned a lot.

Question:

I've run three main assault missile mechs throughout my time here on MWO. My first was the Battlemaster (LRM-50) which I have always run with artemis, and was usually advised to do so. I'm thinking of taking it off and just putting more ammo on it, do people still use this mech with artemis?

I ask this because I have an Awesome missile boat (LRM-60) which I have initially run with artemis (the only IS mech to do a single payload of 60 with artemis?), but found the ammo wanting. So I took it off and it works fine. It's not so much the weight of Artemis but the lack of crit space when dealing with several large launchers! I can always knock the engine down a peg for weight, but there's no getting additional space.I also will use a King Crab as an LRM-60.

However, the Awesome and Crab are slow, and less likely to get their own locks (have a line of sight to a lot of their targets, which is needed to get the tracking time benefit for LRMs), while the more nimble Battlemaster can get to the fight quicker and be more pro-active. Does Artemis tighten LRM grouping on indirectly-locked mechs too, or is line of sight needed for that?

What do you guys think? I think I will test it out.

Edited by Takashi Uchida, 30 August 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[Tesunie]

Takashi Uchida, on 30 August 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

What do guys think? I think I will test it out. It's only about two games worth pay to switch to and back.

Okay, some information on Artemis to start with:
- It decreases lock on times for missiles. This can let your missiles lock on sooner/faster.
- It's tracing and bonus to missile grouping (how close together they are) are only if you yourself have direct line of sight to your target. This can be important for landing more hits in general, more on the CT/Torso (in general), and/or hitting a fast mech running around in your line of sight.

Overall, if you are not intending to get line of sight (which isn't recommended, but sometimes it's just what happens), it may not be needed. If you are taking only a bunch of small launchers, it probably isn't needed either, as they already go fairly well for the CT and the added weight to the launchers may not be worth it.

If you are taking larger launchers though, you gain more for the same price as you would improving a small launcher. Not only does it help a larger launcher (in direct line of sight) track their targets better (giving it more correction points in it's flight paths), it also helps land more missiles actually on the target, instead of the dirt. For larger launchers, its considered more or less a necessity.


My opinion, depends upon how you are using it, and what results you keep seeing. If you find yourself only ever shooting indirectly, then lose it for more ammo or maybe some nice backup weapons. I would also be willing to experiment and see if I cause more effective damage for the tonnage of ammo lost from Artemis (likely due to more missiles hitting their target).

Out of several choices, I'd probably be more willing to reduce the launcher sizes for backup weapons/ammo. But I'm a strong believer of never (okay... rarely) boating (particularly LRMs). Sometimes, those few extra missiles in the air aren't as useful as some lasers and/or (S)SRMs to protect yourself. (Ask my Thor/Summoner B about that one.)


Then again, as you get better with the weapon system, you'll probably find yourself doing more damage with less ammo. I recommend a ton of LRM ammo for every 5 tubes of launchers. My skill with LRMs and knowing when to fire and when to waste ammo as a scare tactic means I can press myself to 1/2 ton of ammo per 5 tubes of launchers, depending upon the mech, and how I intend to use it. (I'm often told my designs don't have enough ammo on them, yet I rarely run out of ammo and still do plenty of damage in a match.)

As much as I'd love to tell you "this is always going to be so much better than that", here I can not. This is going to be a preference thing, and what you feel works better for you. I'd say take Artemis by default, but I also know that there are builds and ways to use LRMs where Artemis would be a waste to even take. (One example. A single LRM10 launcher does not need Artemis, and the ton taken on Artemis would remove the extra LRM10's ammo supply, for rather little gain.) So, if you have the tonnage to spare take Artemis. If you feel it's not helping you (right now at least) and need the tonnage for something else, then take it off and give it a try. (It never hurts to experiment with everything. Check it out yourself, and see how it works. Nothing beats personal first hand experience.)


Edit: For spelling. (Mostly typos actually.)

Edited by Tesunie, 30 August 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[Takashi Uchida]

Thanks for the response. On dedicated LRM assaults, I used to be comfortable with about 1000 missiles. Now I like packing a lot more (perhaps it's because I got used to seeing clan weight efficiency), even in IS mechs.

Also, back then there weren't nearly as much ECM mechs, so now I like more for area denial/dumb-fire. Perhaps with the upcoming ECM nerf LRMs will be more effective, idk.