272 replies to this topic

[Apnu]

Grynos, on 04 May 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

To the OP..... The problem with CW is the same one they have had from it's start..... It is nothing more than TDM on a different set of maps where winning a planet means nothing more that a pixel changing from one color to another. In reality, there was no real need to reset the map at this point in CW. PGI keeps messing with how the modes are selected, drop deck tonnage,etc. instead of dealing with the more pressing issues. They have basically said that not much is going to change in regards to the planets actually meaning something anytime in the near future,that feature alone might make CW more interesting to the player base. PGI devs need to go play Planetside 2, look at how taking territories ( In MWO would be planets ) actually means something beside it just changing color, how there are multiple attack lanes which makes faction coordination more tactical.

CW will continue to be played at a minimum because it has no substance. It is not an "end game" mode, it is just another version of the same thing PGI has been doing with new maps and pixel color changes.

Inch deep, inch wide. You're right.

PGI knows this, they even said as much when they launched CW Beta 1. Its frustrating to live through the slow pace of game development. I think that's were most of the community stress comes from.

I won't take CW totally seriously until they remove the "Beta" tag from it. Then I'll judge it. Until then, its all practice and teams crowing over CW victories and territory are masturbating.

[Mystere]

KinLuu, on 04 May 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

Maybe the population is that low, because the queues are not split?

So, should we have separate BT universes, one for groups and another for solos? If not, maybe you should propose a solution.

[MischiefSC]

@Apnu;

You bring tons of intelligeny, well reasoned points to the topic. I agree with every one. I deeply wish I didn't fully expect PGI to do the exact opposite.

[Grynos]

Actually there is a solution, but not many will like it.... CW using an ELO system for both groups and solo players.. Then matchmaker fitting people together by their ELO. Group ELO would be the average of the group members. That way matches would be a little more even in the long run.. When 12 people are formed MM would try to get the closest group to an ELO,

Heya Mischief,

How odd we are having the same discussions 5 months later.... shocker.

[C E Dwyer]

Eider, on 03 May 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

I am surprised people dont get it.. cw is 'hard' mode aka for the l33t blah blah. Why would filthy casuals want to play outside an event?

Thing is its not really that hard mode, only when you get the misfourtune of comming up against an organised 12man does it become that one sided, and if casuals used comon sense they can still give them a run for their money, its when a casual takes the I'm me I'm going to do what the hell i like attitude into CW that things go to pieces.

more people play CW the less chance there are of meeting teams that will really roll you, and stomps happen in pugland to.

also there are a few worth while targetsin CW, mech bays and gxp

[Thomas G Wolf]

I tried pug drops on Sat but came up against a MS pre made 5 times in a row so I just quit after seeing them as the opposing team each time as it is a total waste of time. Yesterday I did one drop and came up against a PUG and it was a PUG vs PUG CW match and that was fun, what is not fun is a pre made 12 man rotfstomping a 12 man Pug, and this from someone who got his 50 points mostly in Pug drops.

Now I do not bother with CW really as I as a solo player have absolutly no influence on the out come of a planet fight and getting spawn camped is not really my idear of fun.

So it is back to normal puging which I usually enjoy as I like my mechs and occasionally drop in a CW match but leave at once if there othere side is a premade simple as that.

[Caustic Canid]

Mystere, on 04 May 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

So, should we have separate BT universes, one for groups and another for solos? If not, maybe you should propose a solution.

No, keep lp and star map as cw only, but put maps and missed in pug queues.

[Moldur]

Grynos, on 04 May 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

To the OP..... The problem with CW is the same one they have had from it's start..... It is nothing more than TDM on a different set of maps where winning a planet means nothing more that a pixel changing from one color to another. In reality, there was no real need to reset the map at this point in CW. PGI keeps messing with how the modes are selected, drop deck tonnage,etc. instead of dealing with the more pressing issues. They have basically said that not much is going to change in regards to the planets actually meaning something anytime in the near future,that feature alone might make CW more interesting to the player base. PGI devs need to go play Planetside 2, look at how taking territories ( In MWO would be planets ) actually means something beside it just changing color, how there are multiple attack lanes which makes faction coordination more tactical.

CW will continue to be played at a minimum because it has no substance. It is not an "end game" mode, it is just another version of the same thing PGI has been doing with new maps and pixel color changes.

I quite like the idea of several hour long alerts a la Planetside 2. It would fit in perfectly with CW. It would focus the playerbase and give a payout that makes it worth people's time. For those unfamiliar, alerts in Planetside give the entire game population (split among 3 factions) an objective of holding a majority of some territory type over the other factions, with bonuses for participating in the alert and payouts for the winning faction. Instead of the entire game population meandering over the whole map (Like CW) it very specifically tells the players "If you go here, there'll be more points and more fighting."


I also agree that there should be some territory bonuses and incentive to play the strategic game in CW. Perhaps each planet provides a really tiny quirk only applied in CW, or maybe a slight XP or C-bill boost. Then there would be some incentive to continuously take planets, as a few planets wouldn't affect you much, but stacking the bonuses of many planets would make your faction stronger and the payout better by a somewhat noticeable margin.



What I think might also help pull people in is adding a fat, fat payout for taking over the entire IS. Sure PGI wouldn't want to just give us free stuff, but the frequency of achieving such a task is so low that I think it would be a fair trade. Payout could be a function of time spent in contract with a faction and total match score (so people actually have to participate) while that iteration of the war was going on. There would be another multiplier for being the winning faction. Making it a function of time+match score under one faction would keep people from hopping ship once they see who's winning because their winner bonuses would be smaller than had they stayed with their original faction. Of course, this would also require an in-game option for mercenaries so that they get a fair payout compared to everyone else.

Edited by Moldur, 04 May 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Mystere]

Grynos, on 04 May 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

Actually there is a solution, but not many will like it.... CW using an ELO system for both groups and solo players.. Then matchmaker fitting people together by their ELO. Group ELO would be the average of the group members. That way matches would be a little more even in the long run.. When 12 people are formed MM would try to get the closest group to an ELO,

You're right. I say "Hell no!" to Elo in CW. It is supposed to be a war, not an eSport.

And it's Elo as in Arpad Elo -- the man who created the Elo rating system -- and not ELO as in Electric Light Orchestra.

Caustic Canid, on 04 May 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

No, keep lp and star map as cw only, but put maps and missed in pug queues.

???

[JaxRiot]

Caustic Canid, on 04 May 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

No, keep lp and star map as cw only, but put maps and missed in pug queues.

Im not following. What does 'Missed in Pug Ques' mean?

[Taemien]

Seems to be a common theme here. Instead of taking personal responsibility. Players are still blaming the devs for everything.

In the days of previous MechWarrior and MechCommander games we had to rely on third parties to give us a planetary assault style of play. And you know what was required in those days? And do you know what you got?

1. A fully staffed unit. If you didn't have 4, 8, or 12 people to be able to drop on a semi daily basis, you couldn't play. If you ran with a 2-4 man unit, you were forced to play as a Merc and had to wait for a unit to allow you to drop with them. Most didn't use mercs for that purpose and instead hired mercs who could field a full load to do assaults and raids for them. You didn't have the luxury of letting PUGs fight an occasional sector. If you didn't show up, you were kicked from the league.

Imagine that, if a defense or offense alert happens and you don't answer it, you can't play CW anymore. You're done as well as the rest of your unit. Yeah its much better now.

2. Automation was NOT integrated with the game. You had to login to a website and when attacks or defenses happened, you used the current MechWarrior game as a proxy. Make sure you take screenshots when you win or when the opponent does something fishy. Couldn't rely on the system to enforce the rules of the league. Oh and when you were done, you logged back onto the website and put in the results, had to wait for the opponent to confirm.. and have another tab open ready to deploy again before he clicked his. You do wish to be on the offensive again. Not defense.

3. No rewards. You had dots that represented the InnerSphere. When you won you got another dot in your faction's color. That's it. And you know what? That's all we needed. We played competitively for the sake of playing competitively. What happened? You all are blaming the devs, but what kind of POS units are you all in that you have to rely on rewards to get your members to show up? This isn't the dev's faults. Its your members' fault and your leaders' fault. They're little zerglings that are only here to see a Cbill number go up. They are not competitive players, but entitled little millennials that need achievements to help them get to the next room in modern games.

Don't blame the dev's for people not showing up. Look at yourselves, your units' members, and your units' leadership.

[Vassago Rain]

Taemien, on 04 May 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Seems to be a common theme here. Instead of taking personal responsibility. Players are still blaming the devs for everything.

In the days of previous MechWarrior and MechCommander games we had to rely on third parties to give us a planetary assault style of play. And you know what was required in those days? And do you know what you got?

1. A fully staffed unit. If you didn't have 4, 8, or 12 people to be able to drop on a semi daily basis, you couldn't play. If you ran with a 2-4 man unit, you were forced to play as a Merc and had to wait for a unit to allow you to drop with them. Most didn't use mercs for that purpose and instead hired mercs who could field a full load to do assaults and raids for them. You didn't have the luxury of letting PUGs fight an occasional sector. If you didn't show up, you were kicked from the league.

Imagine that, if a defense or offense alert happens and you don't answer it, you can't play CW anymore. You're done as well as the rest of your unit. Yeah its much better now.

2. Automation was NOT integrated with the game. You had to login to a website and when attacks or defenses happened, you used the current MechWarrior game as a proxy. Make sure you take screenshots when you win or when the opponent does something fishy. Couldn't rely on the system to enforce the rules of the league. Oh and when you were done, you logged back onto the website and put in the results, had to wait for the opponent to confirm.. and have another tab open ready to deploy again before he clicked his. You do wish to be on the offensive again. Not defense.

3. No rewards. You had dots that represented the InnerSphere. When you won you got another dot in your faction's color. That's it. And you know what? That's all we needed. We played competitively for the sake of playing competitively. What happened? You all are blaming the devs, but what kind of POS units are you all in that you have to rely on rewards to get your members to show up? This isn't the dev's faults. Its your members' fault and your leaders' fault. They're little zerglings that are only here to see a Cbill number go up. They are not competitive players, but entitled little millennials that need achievements to help them get to the next room in modern games.

Don't blame the dev's for people not showing up. Look at yourselves, your units' members, and your units' leadership.

CW isn't fun. Until it becomes fun, only the most hardcore, devoted, and loyal of Kerensky's whales (and the people who love trolling said whales) will bother with it.

Stop trying to pin the blame on the players.

Oh, and your post was too long, so I didn't read. ggclose

Edited by Vassago Rain, 04 May 2015 - 01:43 PM.

[Taemien]

Vassago Rain, on 04 May 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

CW isn't fun. Until it becomes fun, only the most hardcore, devoted, and loyal of Kerensky's whales (and the people who love trolling said whales) will bother with it.

Stop trying to pin the blame on the players.

So you're going to tell me that Team Deathmatch was more fun? That's what we had in MW2-4 for Planetary Matches. Or wait.. they had Capture the Flag in MW4...

Seriously?

[Vassago Rain]

Taemien, on 04 May 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

So you're going to tell me that Team Deathmatch was more fun? That's what we had in MW2-4 for Planetary Matches. Or wait.. they had Capture the Flag in MW4...

Seriously?

Deathmatch is great. How do you think this minimally viable product has stayed alive for 3 years, brah?

[JaxRiot]

Taemien, on 04 May 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Seems to be a common theme here. Instead of taking personal responsibility. Players are still blaming the devs for everything.

In the days of previous MechWarrior and MechCommander games we had to rely on third parties to give us a planetary assault style of play. And you know what was required in those days? And do you know what you got?

1. A fully staffed unit. If you didn't have 4, 8, or 12 people to be able to drop on a semi daily basis, you couldn't play. If you ran with a 2-4 man unit, you were forced to play as a Merc and had to wait for a unit to allow you to drop with them. Most didn't use mercs for that purpose and instead hired mercs who could field a full load to do assaults and raids for them. You didn't have the luxury of letting PUGs fight an occasional sector. If you didn't show up, you were kicked from the league.

Imagine that, if a defense or offense alert happens and you don't answer it, you can't play CW anymore. You're done as well as the rest of your unit. Yeah its much better now.

2. Automation was NOT integrated with the game. You had to login to a website and when attacks or defenses happened, you used the current MechWarrior game as a proxy. Make sure you take screenshots when you win or when the opponent does something fishy. Couldn't rely on the system to enforce the rules of the league. Oh and when you were done, you logged back onto the website and put in the results, had to wait for the opponent to confirm.. and have another tab open ready to deploy again before he clicked his. You do wish to be on the offensive again. Not defense.

3. No rewards. You had dots that represented the InnerSphere. When you won you got another dot in your faction's color. That's it. And you know what? That's all we needed. We played competitively for the sake of playing competitively. What happened? You all are blaming the devs, but what kind of POS units are you all in that you have to rely on rewards to get your members to show up? This isn't the dev's faults. Its your members' fault and your leaders' fault. They're little zerglings that are only here to see a Cbill number go up. They are not competitive players, but entitled little millennials that need achievements to help them get to the next room in modern games.

Don't blame the dev's for people not showing up. Look at yourselves, your units' members, and your units' leadership.

Heh, this reminds me of something my papa would say. About how in His day, when he was just a baby, they had to walk to school up hill both ways in snow up to their waists and with the blistering sun scorching their faces while the rain almost drowned them

We just didnt know how good we had it with our soap and shade and that fancy schmancy wheel thing

Edit- Daaang, now I miss my grandpa

Edited by JaxRiot, 04 May 2015 - 01:55 PM.

[sdsnowbum]

Mystere, on 04 May 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

You're right. I say "Hell no!" to Elo in CW. It is supposed to be a war, not an eSport.

And it's Elo as in Arpad Elo -- the man who created the Elo rating system -- and not ELO as in Electric Light Orchestra.



???

What exactly does that mean? It's war not eSports?

[Grynos]

Mystere, on 04 May 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

You're right. I say "Hell no!" to Elo in CW. It is supposed to be a war, not an eSport.

Lol it is suppose to be a war, which means that there needs to be population, other than PGI manufacturing it through events. If it is a war then why don't the planets mean anything?? Right now it is just glorified TDM, with two game modes that are extremely similar. No need to have any strategy in relation to the overall map because a computer picks the place you can go, so there is no need for true strategy like what happens in War. Look at Planetside 2 , at least that game resembles a war.

Perhaps they should make more of an Esport product seeing as those populations seem to be doing just fine.

[MischiefSC]

There was a time when 8bit graphics were fine. Expectations have changed. Mw4 was not a f2p with a steadily increasing grind, intentional imbalance between faction gear and associated issues.

Mw4 didn't sell stuff on the promise of future content that was delayed years.

[Grynos]

Taemien, on 04 May 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Seems to be a common theme here. Instead of taking personal responsibility. Players are still blaming the devs for everything.

In the days of previous MechWarrior and MechCommander games we had to rely on third parties to give us a planetary assault style of play. And you know what was required in those days? And do you know what you got?

1. A fully staffed unit. If you didn't have 4, 8, or 12 people to be able to drop on a semi daily basis, you couldn't play. If you ran with a 2-4 man unit, you were forced to play as a Merc and had to wait for a unit to allow you to drop with them. Most didn't use mercs for that purpose and instead hired mercs who could field a full load to do assaults and raids for them. You didn't have the luxury of letting PUGs fight an occasional sector. If you didn't show up, you were kicked from the league.

Imagine that, if a defense or offense alert happens and you don't answer it, you can't play CW anymore. You're done as well as the rest of your unit. Yeah its much better now.

2. Automation was NOT integrated with the game. You had to login to a website and when attacks or defenses happened, you used the current MechWarrior game as a proxy. Make sure you take screenshots when you win or when the opponent does something fishy. Couldn't rely on the system to enforce the rules of the league. Oh and when you were done, you logged back onto the website and put in the results, had to wait for the opponent to confirm.. and have another tab open ready to deploy again before he clicked his. You do wish to be on the offensive again. Not defense.

3. No rewards. You had dots that represented the InnerSphere. When you won you got another dot in your faction's color. That's it. And you know what? That's all we needed. We played competitively for the sake of playing competitively. What happened? You all are blaming the devs, but what kind of POS units are you all in that you have to rely on rewards to get your members to show up? This isn't the dev's faults. Its your members' fault and your leaders' fault. They're little zerglings that are only here to see a Cbill number go up. They are not competitive players, but entitled little millennials that need achievements to help them get to the next room in modern games.

Don't blame the dev's for people not showing up. Look at yourselves, your units' members, and your units' leadership.

If 70% of the people do not use a game mode that the devs spent resources,time,and money on,then it is their fault...... Oh back in the day, wait it's time to live in the present and hope for the future. And just so you know, it is the devs putting the prizes for the CW events because otherwise CW gets played as much as MW2-4 these days.....

[Grynos]

MischiefSC, on 04 May 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Mw4 didn't sell stuff on the promise of future content that was delayed years.

Once again every so often , mischief and I see eye to eye on something