43 replies to this topic

[SOGNeon]

this is a discussion of Japanese language usage for Mechwarriors of the DCMS. this initial posting is taken from Palidin Brewers House Kurita Website. The intent of this thread is to draw from various resources to add color to the game, and perhaps learn a li'l foreign culture in the process.

The House Kurita Website is developing into an exelent resource for players looking to serve in the Draconis Combine Mustered Soldiery. be sure to visit the site.
http://www.housekurita.org/

I would like to thank Palidin Brewer for permission to cut and paste his page over here thus saving me a lot of typing as I would have otherwise drawn from my own resources and resulted in much of the same information as presented here.

the origional page can be found here:
http://www.housekuri...-japanese-terms

Common Sayings/Phrases
Baka - Fool
Banzai! - Lit. "Ten Thousand", used as a cheer
Chotto matte kudasai - One moment please (equivalent of "brb")
Dekashita - Nice going!
Do itashi moshite - You're welcome
(Domo) Arigato - Thank you (very much)
Giri - Duty, obligation, justice
Gokoun-o inorimasu - Good luck or good fortune.
Gomen nasai - I am sorry
Hai, (wakarimasu) - Yes, (I understand)
Iie, (wakarimasen) - No, (I do NOT understand)
Ikimasho - Let's go.
Konnichi wa - Hello
K-wa - (short for Konnichi-wa) hello
Kudasai- Please
Ohayo - Good Morning
Koe-i desu - It is an honor (to meet you.)
O-medeto - Congratulations!
Sayo - (short for sayonara) goodbye
Sayonara - Goodbye, so long, farewell
Shikata ga nai - Approximately "It can't be helped"
Shimatta - Exclamation of dismay
So ka - Oh? How interesting!
Sugu - At once, immediately
Sumimasen - Excuse me, pardon me
Wakarimasu-ka? - Do you understand?
Yoroshii desu - It is okay


Concepts
<bow> - Sign of respect
Gyokusai - Lit. "Shattered Jade" used in reference to suicide attacks or suicide in face of defeat
Katana - Sword, traditional weapon of the samurai
Ki - Heart, mind, spirit, feeling
Meiyo - Reputation, honor
Ninjo - Humanity, sympathy
Ninjutsu - Literally, "Art of Invisibility", the skill of the Ninja
Ryu no tomo - "Dragon's Friends"
Seppuku - Samurai ritual suicide


Formal
Sensei - Respected teacher
Shizen - Nature
Teki - Enemy, opponent, rival
Tengu - Long-nosed goblin
-san - Used after introductions, it an informal greetings between friends
-sama - Applied after a name to indicate Mr. or Ms, when first introduced
-shi - used in formal writing and very formal speech for referencing a person unfamiliar to the speaker (such as the Coordinator, to most people).


Titles
Buso-senshi - MechWarrior or AeroSpace Pilot
Jokan - Noble Lady
Jukurensha - Adept
Sensei - Master Teacher
Senshi - Warrior
Shoshinsha - Novice
Shudocho - Abbot, Master of an order
Tono - Noble lord or My Lord


Draconis Combine-Specific:
Arm of the Dragon - Combined military forces of the DC, particularly the 'Mech forces.
Claws of the Dragon - A dragon has five claws on each of its forelimbs, each represents a Military District.
The Dictum Honorium - The book detailing the codes of conduct, first published by Omi Kurita I in c2360.
Dragon Days - The period of time when, due to physical location and/or seasonal changes, a portion of the world experiences extended darkness
Dragon's Blood - Another name for Jewelblood, a rare and precious gem-like substance.
Dragon's Breath - A reference to the ISF.
Dragon's Dove - The only friend of a dragon is a small, pale blue dove. Refers to any valuable service rendered by a lesser subject, or to needed assistance from an unexpected source.
Dragon's Joy - The feeling of ecstasy that a Dragon experiences when a citizen fulfill his routine duties for the benefit of the Dragon.
Dragon's Lair - A place of guaranteed safety.
Dragon's Seeds - New worlds conquered by the dragon.
Dragon's Tears - The dragon cries a single tear every time it is wounded. Refers to any Bushi or support staff killed in combat while in service to the dragon.
Dragon's Teeth - Informal name for the Draconis Household Guard.
Dragon's Time - The period of time between sunset and sunrise.
Duke of the Dragon - The Duke of Luthien
The First Egg - Shiro Kurita, the founder of the Draconis Combine.
Eyes of the Dragon - The sole vulnerable part of a dragon.
Fist of the Dragon - The Gunji-no-Kanrei.
Heart of the Dragon - The sum of manpower, resources and facilities possessed by the Draconis Combine.
Pillars of the Dragon - The Five Pillars of Society: Gold, Ivory, Steel, Teak and Jade.
· Pillar of Gold - The Government, the Coordinator.
· Pillar of Ivory - Faith, philosophy, codes of conduct.
· Pillar of Steel - The Military.
· Pillar of Teak - The culture and arts of the Combine.
· Pillar of Jade - The Economy, wealth, and commerce.
Prince of the Dragon - The Prince of Luthien, heir apparant to the Coordinator.
Smile of the Dragon - The dragon only smiles when it has defeated a worthy foe.
Sons of the Dragon - The loyal and faithful followers of the dragon.
Virtues of the Dragon - The dragon possesses five virtues: Bravery, Tenacity, Audacity, Integrity, and Wisdom.
The Yellow Bird - The only real enemy of the dragon. Refers to the fact that any enemy can be a danger, no matter how small.


Address -- Always use proper forms of address
§ For those of equal or lower rank, like this: Name-san
§ For those of greater rank, up to Chu-sa, like this: Name-sama
§ For those of the ranks of Tai-sa, Sho-sho, Warlord, or for the House Leader and House XO, like this: Name-tono
§ If unsure whether someone outranks you, it's best to be extra polite. When in doubt, use Name-sama.
§ Call everyone by her or his BattleTech handle. Even if someone is a close friend of yours, please do not call *this line is cut off in the origional, I believe it is suposed to say "please do not call them by their first name"

Edited by SOGNeon, 02 July 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[SOGNeon]

under titles, I believe <name>-Gozen would be appropriate to Ladies of Rank. I would not use it for anything less than an officer, and would be inclined to reserve it for upper officers such as a major or higher.

(edit: I have recently (today) found that while -Gozen is an ancient honorific for a lady of significant rank, in modern practice women in the military use masculine forms of address for that reason, I retract my recommendation for it's use unless we can find better documentation supporting it.)

under Draconis Combine-Specific I would add the Dragons Voice: a branch of ISF serving as the Ministry of Propaganda.

Edited by SOGNeon, 05 July 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Otonashi Saya]

Time to brush up on my Japanese again...so when yelling down Teamspeak people might be able to understand me...as they sure as hell cant understand my English hahaaha

Thanks for Posting this So much Info on Palidin Brewer website for every thing the Kurita Warrior needs.

Edited by Otonashi Saya, 02 July 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[BoxOfAids]

Pretty decent compilation here, I knew most of it from reading a few of the novels and from having minor experience in Japanese (I can understand hearing it decently, can't read or speak much at all). Good stuff, didn't know some of the Combine-specific ones.

[SOGNeon]

though it has no place within the tactical aspect of the game, from what I have seen a number of people are also interested in the roleplay aspect of the battletech game (interestingly enough called mechwarrior) it would not surprise me to see players developing persona for their mechwarrior role. in which case your character would also have a name. alternately as friendships form, players real names are learned. in either case, whether a tactical call sign (our screen names) or a name is used, there is a proper form of address.

my name in the real world is matt lew (just ask facebook<G>), but within another organization in which I study japanese culture and history of the sengoku period, I am known as Ishikawa Yoshimasa. Ishikawa is my family name, and is always given first, yoshimasa is my given name, but is rarely actually used. Though it does not flow off the tongue as well as a japanese name I would be called Lew-san in the real world (though certain female otaku have been known to call me matthew-chan, such is not appropriate.)

for the purpose of role play, I will likely use the Ishikawa name here as well, unless you know me outside of the game, so I shall use it as my examples.

SOG is actually a gaming squad tag for a squad I joined years ago. when communicating with me, proper forms of spoken address would be "Neon-san" or simply "Neon" in a tactical situation, or even Ishikawa-san. in written form it would ALWAYS include my squad tag "SOGNeon-san" (edit: actually as an afterthought, if I am not mistaken, as a soldier, my rank would be a mandatory inclusion. written form would be "Sunjin SOGNeon-san", though I think I recall something about honorifics not being treated the same in written form as spoken form, still many of us try to write as if it where spoken. <would someone more versed in this please pipe up? I am trying here, but I freely admit my knowledge on the topic is rudimentary at best>)

While the draconis combine is japanese in cultural aspect, not all members of the combine are of japanese decent. As I mentioned above I am Matt Lew, but I will use a character name of Ishikawa as well as my call sign of SOGNeon... within the combine you could just as easily find (i just flipped my FMDC open and found) winston phillips, howard mencio, jabal sharief, tadaki johiro, then there are people like franklin sakamodo.

(edit: consensus so far seems to be in the use of the westernized format for a written name as it is the modern usage, AND is the format used by the FASA source material)
this brings me to another point. even in japan there are two ways to write a name. traditional is family name first, then given name, but they also use a westernized form of given name then family name. I admit, I do not know what the social rules are for dealing with that, but a customer of mine is from japan, but comes to the states on business. he only knows my given name and that makes him uncomfortable addressing me directly at work. instead he resorts to the nameless masses approach since he is under no social obligation to be formal. In proper usage, franklin sakamodo would be refered to as sakamodo-sama unless you outranked him. (we won't even get into the san/sama/dono rant lets just leave it as usage evolves over time)

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on japanese culture, language, or history...I study japanese culture for fun, but my primary area of interest is samurai culture of late sengoku period (1500's), and some of my sources for modern japanese culture are likely a decade or more out of date. (I certainly know my resource on japanese slang is.) so if you have different information, please present it. the purpose of this thread is to share and learn.

Edited by SOGNeon, 04 July 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[Otonashi Saya]

what you say is very true even in Modem day Japan, as even being overly polite in some situations can lead to a feeling of mistrust. Its very complex social system that they follow but I was always advised use last name and San at all times unless told not to Us dumb Gaijin have alot to learn hahaha.

[AceTimberwolf]

http://mwomercs.com/...-hanasemasu-ka/

Here is some more stuff from when I was bored. Just actual Japanese. If you guys have Japanese Language Questions feel free to Ask Hayashi or my Self

[Hunson Abadeer]

Banzai is short for "Tennoheika Banzai" (天皇陛下万歳), which is roughly "10,000 years [of life for] His Imperial Majesty!"

You could turn that into ... Uchu-no-Kodeneta Banzai (宇宙のコーディネーター万歳) ... "10,000 years [of life for] the Coordinator of Worlds!"

Uchu-no-Kodeneta is literally "Coordinator of the Universe."

[Kyone Akashi]

Ah, a thread about Combine culture. Sugoi! I support spreading the Dragon's wisdom.

Hunson Abadeer, on 02 July 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

You could turn that into ... Uchu-no-Kodeneta Banzai (宇宙のコーディネーター万歳) ... "10,000 years [of life for] the Coordinator of Worlds!

I really like this idea. Do you think that the shorter "Kodeneta Banzai" would work as well? I imagine it would be easier to memorize for many of our samurai, and the glorious destiny of the Coordinator should be unquestioned even without the prefix.

As for the very encompassing list in the first post, I suppose the only thing I could add would be that "domo" alone could be used as a shortened form of "domo arigato"? Although I believe this is a rather recent development, but by the year 3050 it could be part of everyday language, especially in the military in the thick of battle.

Oh, and perhaps also important for the concepts section would be the "daisho" - the combination of katana and wakizashi, both a sign of status of the samurai class and, in essence, a social necessity for DCMS mechwarriors. The House Kurita Handbook goes into a little detail concerning how this first became a fashion, then a must.

SOGNeon, on 02 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

traditional is family name first, then given name, but they also use a westernized form of given name then family name. [...] I have noticed that the fasa books tend to use westernized versions, but in proper usage, franklin sakamodo would be refered to as sakamodo-sama unless you outranked him.

This could be excused by the Draconis Combine being a realm of the far future. Even though inherently based on traditional Japanese culture, language invariably changes over time, so it would not be impossible for the westernized form to have become more common than the original one, perhaps? Same as with domo above.

/bows

[Hunson Abadeer]

Yes, I think "Kodenata Banzai" would work. I agree that it would be easier to memorize while retaining a little more formality and a BattleTech-specific flare.

Kyone Akashi, on 03 July 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Ah, a thread about Combine culture. Sugoi! I support spreading the Dragon's wisdom.

I really like this idea. Do you think that the shorter "Kodeneta Banzai" would work as well? I imagine it would be easier to memorize for many of our samurai, and the glorious destiny of the Coordinator should be unquestioned even without the prefix.

[SOGNeon]

Kyone Akashi, on 03 July 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Ah, a thread about Combine culture. Sugoi! I support spreading the Dragon's wisdom.
<snip>

Oh, and perhaps also important for the concepts section would be the "daisho" - the combination of katana and wakizashi, both a sign of status of the samurai class and, in essence, a social necessity for DCMS mechwarriors. The House Kurita Handbook goes into a little detail concerning how this first became a fashion, then a must.

This could be excused by the Draconis Combine being a realm of the far future. Even though inherently based on traditional Japanese culture, language invariably changes over time, so it would not be impossible for the westernized form to have become more common than the original one, perhaps? Same as with domo above.

/bows

amusingly enough FMDC mentions the daisho (not by name, but rather in the form of 4 schools earning a wakazashi) in typical 80's fashion we gaijin thought everyone in medieval japan walked around with a katana, but only a samurai could carry a wakizashi, and that was in truth completely backward.

we know that students from the following schools recieved a daisho upon graduation:
Sun Tzu School of Combat: "all graduates recieve a pair of samurai swords."
Sun Zang Mechwarrior Acadamy: "Graduates are honored with the presentation of wakizashi and katana swords, which they may wear with thier dress uniform." (it should be noted I prefer sun tzu over sun zang as a matter of personal taste, but I once found a set of cuff links made with the SZMA logo <covetous joygasm> oh I wanted them, but could not afford the $90 the shop was asking for them at the time. I believe they where custom made)
Wisdom of the Dragon: "the graduation ceremony, a grand affair, takes place in the Coordinator's presence, and the Coordinator himself awards each graduate with the coveted katana and wakizashi."
and of course...
The Pagoda for Luthien Officers: "The Coordinator presides over the graduation ceremony each year, more for political resons than genuine pride in his new officers. The paired Katana and wakizashi are awarded to each graduate as he recieves his orders."

taken from the senior officers uniform information: "Officers are permitted to wear handguns on their belts, and most carry a second concealed weapon. Graduates of the Sun Zang Acadamy, Wisdom of the Dragon school, and the Sun Tzu School of Combat may wear their Katana and wakizashi as well." (I notice it did not mention the pagoda. we can assume since the pagoda is the school for the pampered children of nobles, who will mostly serve their careers on the merrits of their parrents prestiegethat they too may wear their daisho, and this was an oversite in editing, but it is an interesting omission.)

(as an unrelated note because I mentioned the SZMA cuff links I had found: <from: senior officers dress uniform> "officers may wear any type of cuff links they prefer with their tunics. Some popular cuff links show school crests, images of the kurita dragon, swords, or battlemechs. cuff links may not excede two centimeters in width, however, as larger cuff links are too flashy for the proper officer" (as a student of samurai in pre-edo japan, I find this amusing, because the samurai where all about flashy until some time in the edo period when such things as flashy clothing became improper and they shifted to wearing a more monochromatic wardrobe leaving flashy clothing to the women.)

I spent several hours a couple days ago working up a proposal about the "acadamies of prestiege" and roleplay aspects related to them. I had decided to wait to see what the game actually did about mech acadamy as it was a recent poll topic. based on past games, mech acadamy was a preliminary tutorial that had no direct effect on the game, and a number of people indicated in the poll they intended to skip it if implimented, however that got me thinking of the correlation to the DCMS training options, as well as the founders membership levels.

as a disclaimer, I too intend to get my legendary founder as soon as possible (hoping end of the week or beginning of next as an unexpected bill postponed getting it at the beginning of this week.) but that was not a biasing point, or Sun Tzu would be assigned to legendary founders<G>

this is a rough draft of an idea based on the idea of roleplaying something that if the devs inmplimented in the game all the roleplay options for each household, we could expect it to be 2049 before the game released<G>

first is entry rank: since the devs anounced they only plan on doing mechs for now, and I believe every house has mechwarrior ranks starting at master sergeant and talon sergeant for the dispossessed and equipped mech jocks acordingly... further the upper rank tends to be used for nobles serving as mechwarriors as well. for this reason I propose that unless the game forces something else on us, a founder member be adressed as a noble (at least the elite and legendary members as they have a mech or four given them from start up, therefore could not be considered dispossessed.)
Rank:
Shujin(master sergeant): normal member (maybe vet founder...)
Kashira(talon sergeant): Founder member (at least the elite and legendary)

part two: acadamy
this is really dependant on the results of the devs decision on a "mech acadamy" tutorial being incorperated into the game, though we could form our own DCMS acadamy if the devs do not.

Those who do not go through an acadamy program: The "Proving Grounds" such as Osaka Fields, however what this actually did was get tallented people who where otherwise overlooked due to social/economic class or academic standing a second shot at acadamy... to be a mechwarrior who did not take any kind of training program one could say "I worked my way up from the Proving Grounds".

Those who take an acadamy program: since AnTing does not reopen til 3055, this does not leave many options: genericly they atended 'the acadamy but that realy leaves us options of Dieron District Gymnasium (in truth more of a proving ground than an acadamy), Dover Institute for Higher Learning, Galedon Military Acadamy

finally for the founders members who also take an acadamy program there is the following: (each based on the prestiege of the school)
Veteran Founder: Sun Tzu Acadamy
Elite Founder: Sun Zang Acadamy
Legendary Founder: Wisdom of the Dragon

And for those proverbial 13 year olds who everyone always jokes about, I propose in jest they appearantly attended the Pagoda for Luthein Officers as they already know it all<G>

this proposal would only be a roleplay element as it would add too many ayers of complication to create a reality based on it, but it does add some flavor.

[Kyone Akashi]

If I recall correctly, the material hints at the existence of district gymnasiums other than the Dieron one - I think it is possible that every military district has its own gymnasium, just that the Dieron District Gymnasium is the most popular and thus the only one featured?

As far as the daisho is concerned, the material seems to contradict itself somewhat when comparing the books. In the "House Kurita Handbook" it seems as if only those graduates of specific academies would be granted this privilege, whereas in the "Draconis Combine Field Manual" it is presented as both a right as well as a necessity for mechwarriors in general and battalion commanders (and above) of the DCSM as a whole. The "A Time of War" RPG also firmly connects the daisho to the samurai (there placed on the lowest tier of nobility, the level of Knight Bachelor).
My own interpretation of these small yet interesting conflicts is that, indeed, only some few academies present its graduates with the daisho pairing of swords, but the right to wear them is something that all warriors of the DCMS share - meaning that many samurai will just have to acquire their blades elsewhere.

As for the varying forms of address: I admit, I do not believe in dispensing these titles based on the amount of real world money a player has invested into the game. At the risk of many players attempting to reach for higher positions due to personal zest and/or lack of humility, I think it would be best if any titles or ranks would be linked to a character's background as written by the player. Maybe it could also be linked to the game, but I fear that the nature of this game will, in a relatively short timespan, lead to a lot of high-ranking officers with few actual troops. A proper hierarchy with ranks may only be possible in player-led units, though this would mean having to sacrifice membership in the canon regiments. Not an easy choice - although there is the possibility of members of canon units organizing themselves out of the game without actually laying claim to the regiment as a whole, thus enabling them to use both the mechanism provided by the game as well as an internal structure for coordination. I may have to think about this for some more!

SOGNeon, on 03 July 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

And for those proverbial 13 year olds who everyone always jokes about, I propose in jest they appearantly attended the Pagoda for Luthein Officers as they already know it all<G>

Hah, well said!

I for one do intend to engage in some roleplaying - it is why I concerned myself with intensive background research, adopted a new writing style solely for this forum, and had a drawing of my character commissioned, after all. The more I delved into the setting, the more inspired I felt!

[SOGNeon]

Kyone Akashi, on 03 July 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

If I recall correctly, the material hints at the existence of district gymnasiums other than the Dieron one - I think it is possible that every military district has its own gymnasium, just that the Dieron District Gymnasium is the most popular and thus the only one featured?

As far as the daisho is concerned, the material seems to contradict itself somewhat when comparing the books. In the "House Kurita Handbook" it seems as if only those graduates of specific academies would be granted this privilege, whereas in the "Draconis Combine Field Manual" it is presented as both a right as well as a necessity for mechwarriors in general and battalion commanders (and above) of the DCSM as a whole. The "A Time of War" RPG also firmly connects the daisho to the samurai (there placed on the lowest tier of nobility, the level of Knight Bachelor).
My own interpretation of these small yet interesting conflicts is that, indeed, only some few academies present its graduates with the daisho pairing of swords, but the right to wear them is something that all warriors of the DCMS share - meaning that many samurai will just have to acquire their blades elsewhere.

As for the varying forms of address: I admit, I do not believe in dispensing these titles based on the amount of real world money a player has invested into the game. At the risk of many players attempting to reach for higher positions due to personal zest and/or lack of humility, I think it would be best if any titles or ranks would be linked to a character's background as written by the player. Maybe it could also be linked to the game, but I fear that the nature of this game will, in a relatively short timespan, lead to a lot of high-ranking officers with few actual troops. A proper hierarchy with ranks may only be possible in player-led units, though this would mean having to sacrifice membership in the canon regiments. Not an easy choice - although there is the possibility of members of canon units organizing themselves out of the game without actually laying claim to the regiment as a whole, thus enabling them to use both the mechanism provided by the game as well as an internal structure for coordination. I may have to think about this for some more!

Hah, well said!

I for one do intend to engage in some roleplaying - it is why I concerned myself with intensive background research, adopted a new writing style solely for this forum, and had a drawing of my character commissioned, after all. The more I delved into the setting, the more inspired I felt!

I believe you are correct about the proving grounds. while I have read only a few of the novels (specifically clan novels) I would be willing to go out on a limb and wager the one cited in FMDC are the ones referenced in stories somewhere, though with the effort FASA had gone through to detail unit listings listings in that era down to tai-sa's and occasionally even chu-i's I find it hard to believe they couldn't scribble down some names for even passing reference, rather I am more inclined to believe osaka field to be one of many, but their detailing of DDG rather makes me think it is something more unique.

while I am inclined to think you may have reversed your references for HKH and FMDC, based on the source culture, I suspect you are correct that the nobility may wear them, but are not necessarily issued them... I myself am still working my back through HKH as it has been a number of years since I read it, but thus far have found no reference.

I fear you may be correct about the rank issue and created units vs cannon units... I was actually just making SIMILAR comment to another not long ago, though my concerns go deeper... the base mechwarrior rank proposal, I do not see actually effecting anything as shujin vs kashira are both still mechwarrior, and the first leadership rank is chu-i... you yourself have already implemented the same entry rank I have proposed<G> Kashira Kyone ... I am hoping that the devs do not screw up the rank system by having us start as heishi mechwarriors, though it would give them more room for instant gratification of players by letting them climb more ranks. once we are in game play rank means nothing as it is the respect of your peers that will find the true leaders. this is the nature of a wargame as opposed to a war. regardless of "rank", we all basically will start the game as mechwarriors. unless they are giving us NPC lance commanders we will quickly find out own chu-i, and as I have read this will be 12 on 12 engagement we will likewise find out tai-i, not based on who scored what in the game, but based on how well someone shows us a path to victory, or by how much we enjoy playing under someone. innept "leaders" will find themselves facing mutany, or playing alone in short order... it is the nature of the reality of a game world.

but we digress.

I look forward to seeing the commissioned art. I myself have plans for making an actual kurita dress uniform after I have made my next Hitatare Sugata. the design does not appear that complicated, but I am trying to decide if I wish to use plain black for the pants, or if I want to put together a kurita crest for screen printing, or a stencil and paint a black on black overall dragon print as seen in the FMDC color plates of the coordinator who is described as wearing standard officers uniform under the mantle of coordinator. my incarnation of the uniform shall be a white tunic featuring orange-red (cinnabar or vermillion) edging stripes at the sleeves, the cuffs, collar, and down the front. additionally as mechwarrior's color is red, it will have red shoulder bars (epaulettes) and a matching stripe sewn down the sides of the pants (that stripe will be sewn to the top as it would be removed when I earn the rank of Chu-i either through the game, or the appointment of my peers.) my boots will likely be my motorcycle boots in brown leather til I can get some black ones (red would be correct for NCO's but I do expect I will eventually end up a Chu-i one way or the other. I could more easily make a set of kurita cuff links than I can a kurita belt buckle, so I am not sure how I could do the belt buckle that is part of the integrated belt

rank insignia would be worn on the left collar. unit insignia does not appear to be a part of standard dress uniform as written in FMDC?!?!?!

this is my bit of fun

Edited by SOGNeon, 03 July 2012 - 03:33 PM.

[Hunson Abadeer]

I think we do need to recognize ranks among player-run units rather than having people decide their ranks of their own accord, if we are looking to have a broader, substantive organization for the DCMS. We do not need an army of Warlords with no one to command, lol.

[SOGNeon]

indeed Abadeer-sama, this is something we run the risk of, but at the same time when someone comes in saying they hold excessive rank, in the first place no one will believe they are even a decent player due to their hubris, but no one will respect what rank they HAVE earned. even then we are looking at a 12 on 12 game from what I have read, which means we have no need for rank above tai-i, which does allow this thread to drift back on topic<G>

Kurita Rank applicable to the game.

Shujin (Master Sergeant):<lavender katakana 5> mechwarrior who does not own a mech (the rank and file typical player upon joining the game)

Kashira (Talon Sergeant):<royal blue katakana 1> mechwarrior who does own a mech (upon joining the game this will be the founders members... I should hope it does not take long before the rank and file have earned a mech of their own, but it remains to be seen how the devs play it out.)

Chu-i (lieutenant): <royal blue katakana 3> commands a lance of 4 mechs themselves included. (as is mentioned in a response below, a unit with two lances would be logical in assuming to be a light company... if you had say 5-6 players, find a couple other players willing to TDA into your lance if the devs permit this sort of thing to fill out the lance and give you a light company... same idea realy (hopefully) applies any time you are a body or two short of having a full unit... you might even find a player you enjoy working with and a potential recruit in that borrowed man)

Tai-i (captain): <royal blue katakana 5> commands a company of 12 mechs themselves included. has 3 chu-i under them (xo and two subordinate lance leaders. the xo chu-i does not actually command the command lance but rather stands as guard to the captain and emergency backup commander)

Sho-sa (Major): <apple green katakana 1> this is the XO of a 36 member or larger unit, and is an administrative position within that unit that does not actually effect game play. on the field they are equivalent to a tai-i at best since there will not be more than a company playing

Chu-sa (lieutenant colonel): <apple green katakana 2> commands a Battalion of 36 mechs themselves included. has a sho-sa and 2-4 tai-i under them (xo and subordinate company leaders. the xo does not actually command the HQ company but this does not actually effect gameplay when the chu-sa takes to the field, they will serve as the equivalent to their company tai-i in game, and a chu-i could serve as command lance xo just as in a company level unit.) it should be noted only those units with greater than two companies of actual active members could have a sho-sa or a chu-sa and refer to themselves as a light battalion.

Tai-sa (colonel): <apple green katakana 3> do you REALLY have 108 or more people playing under you? if so you have a regiment... I am impressed. if you have less than that you are a battalion commander. refer to chu-sa above. (yes the tai-sa description is meant to be sarcastic not many house units can pull those kind of numbers)

sho-sho (general's or warlord's aid... we should never see them in the game except as an NPC)
Tai-sho (general, we should never see these in game except as an NPC)
Tai-shu (district warlord... forget NPC, we should never see these in the game as we would not be high enough rank to justify their attention)

good catch Abadeer-sama I was trying to rush to get it posted before a lightning storm took me down. was not paying enough attention to my data. the brigade/battalion errors I believe are now corrected.

Edited by SOGNeon, 04 July 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[Hunson Abadeer]

A couple of small caveats.

It should go Lance->Company->Battalion->Regiment->Brigade.

If the ranks are going to be based on actual unit membership, I think that there should be some leeway in the ranks. For example, several 'Mechs make more sense as an undersized Company under a Tai-i than an especially large Lance under a Chu-i.

[SOGNeon]

yes you are indeed correct about the light companies, reinforced companies, light battalions, etc. it comes down to using a li'l logic when styling the size of a unit. and further there have historically been cases of regiments barely able to field a battalion that where held together for the sake of tradition. at the same time, does a team with 14 members belong calling themselves a battalion till the recruit at least another company worth of players? I am not saying this is how it must be done in any given unit either... unit sizes and ranks commanding them are pulled from RoW, and FMDC respectively.

[Kyone Akashi]

Ah! I have found a few citations in the books. Having purchased them in digital format (PDF), I have the luxury of having the program search for keywords...

On the subject of the daisho:

"As the pinnacle of the military, the Kuritan MechWarriors took every ancient word to heart. It soon became fashionable, then required, that all MechWarriors carry the Wakizashi, or short sword, and Katana, or longsword, of the ancient samurai on formal dress occasions."
- HKH p. 46

"A dime a dozen, or so the saying goes. In the BattleTech universe, the rank of knight is often seen as admission into the realms of military or political power. The lowest titled rank obtainable, it is often a reward given with military honors or for some other act that greatly benefits the state (being obnoxiously rich and paying taxes apparently qualifies in many nations). The relative abundance of knights bachelor in the Inner Sphere tempers the influence and prestige such a player character can wield, though in many cases the lack of the title is a hindrance. In the Draconis Combine for example, earning the right to wear the paired swords of a samurai is a fundamental pre-requisite to rising in rank beyond company commander."
- AToW p. 351 (I assume that "company commander" in this context refers chiefly to infantry and armor forces, as I consider all mechwarriors to be samurai)

And on the subject of district gymnasiums other than Dieron:

"Kurita space has thousands of military schools (ranging from small MechWarrior institutes to enormous infantry training camps) that all teach a specific discipline."
- HKH p. 137

"Most MechWarriors train at schools like the Dieron District Gymnasium."
- HKH p. 139 (note that "schools like the DDG" does not refer to the other famous academies, as they are listed in direct comparison)

"There, an officer befriended Sorenson and helped him pass an equivalency test and win a scholarship to Pesht District Gymnasium, from which he graduated with honors."
- HKH p. 172 (probably the most obvious reference to other district gymnasiums, as it provides an example by name)

Perhaps these are oversights, or perhaps there has been a retcon similar to the one that turned the Amphigean Light Assault from mercenaries to conscripted convicts - it is my hope that the upcoming revised House Kurita Handbook will clear up any inconsistencies and confusion.


As to the question of ranks, I fear that the game will give us many more promotions than would be realistic. For the time being, I have no intention of my character ever rising above the rank I have in my signature right now. At the same time, however, I will not accept starting out as a Hojuhei or Heishi, as that would simply not be adequate for a character of this position (a mechwarrior). Thus, perhaps I will end up simply ignoring the in-game rank for the purpose of roleplaying.

A problem will be in determining who has the skill and thus the right to lead our lances in battle, but I am confident that we will tackle this somehow once the game has gone life. An idea I have recently been discussing with OberSchutze-san was to invite all pilots who have joined one of the game's canon regiments into a separate forum (housekurita.org), where they can decide on some form of lance hierarchy (without laying any claim to the greater regiment) and assemble teams for community warfare. In a way, think of it as something of a "middle ground" between a custom independent player unit with a full hierarchy up to regimental CO, and complete reliance on the game's own mechanics.

I do hope that the developers will release more detailed information on how community warfare and House units are going to work, though. Much of the planning may be for naught given the current state of affairs, with so many things still left in the dark.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 03 July 2012 - 08:32 PM.

[Raizo Nishizawa]

I hate to pour cold water on this thread, but the correct way to render "Voice of the Dragon" is Ryu no Koe. Subject-Verb-Object in Japanese is the inverse of that in English. Written the other way around it reads as "Dragon of (the) Voice" which implies a thunderous roar befitting a dragon, not the mythical serpent itself.

The common phrases/saying section is a trainwreck. Even allowing for the centuries of population blending and interstellar travel in the milleu to modify the Japanese language, allowances are barely made for colloquial and polite form (and most tend to veer towards the latter inexplicably) and absolutely none take gender into consideration, so men end up sound like women. What's hilarious about all the Dragon-centric terms is that the dragon occupies comparatively little respect or presence in Japanese mythology, because it is an imported creature.

If proto-Japanese nationalism was actually hardcore as it is implied to be, foreign words would be banned and Coordinator would have been more properly Soutou, or Generalissimo. Despite the reverence for ancient Chinese scholarship, retention of names in original pronunciation (i.e. Sun Zi rather than Son Shi) is unthinkable as Japanese is not a tonal language and cannot replicate the sounds.

Also, adult males of equal or fairly close standing never refer to each other as -sama anything. The archaic form would be -dono for medieval Japanese, or -shi for modern. There is no use for -san in hierarchical (i.e. military) relationships, period. The correct term to refer to a superior in a military relationship outside of the actual rank (which is considered an honorific in itself) is Kakka. For all relationships of equal standing, it is last name only. Professional relationships and friendships can exist for years without anyone ever saying anyone else's given name.

When FASA thought up of the original BT millieu back in the 80s, it was obviously a pack of gaijin putting it together half-blind, and it still shows in the names (i.e. "Hohiro" is near-impossible in Japanese namiing conventions) and misplaced cultural elements. It's not worth letting this get in the way of enjoying Mechwarrior Online, but think more than twice if you're striving for any sort of real-world authenticity.

Edited by Raizo Nishizawa, 04 July 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

I think a certain amount of leeway is appropriate, considering that we are talking about a realm that exists more than a thousand years from now, which is not directly linked to even modern day Japan, and which went through a period of much forgotten knowledge. In a way, perhaps it can be said that it is akin to the Holy Roman Empire (medieval Germany) compared to the actual Roman Empire (ancient Italy and its conquered territories).

Yes, the "proto-Japanese nationalism" is quite hardcore, but I suppose it is safe to say that much that would be considered foreign today does not seem foreign in the year 30XX. In fact, according to the sourcebooks, the ranks of enlisted soldiers have only recently been replaced with Japanese terms whereas (unlike the officer class) they had been English before, apparently because this was simply the standard in the Inner Sphere. In a way, it could be said that the Draconis Combine is still in a state of rediscovering its own cultural roots. Not all of these roots may actually be rediscovered, and some may even remain unimplemented by choice solely due to the Draconis Combine also having other roots. In the end, any nation evolves and adopts new concepts, and the Draconis Combine is no exception, just like the real Japan.

I for one support the "relaxed" cultural milieu as it mixes a certain amount of respect for Japanese culture as the Combine's heart with a realistic amount of "evolutional blur" - and is much easier to get into and thus cultivate for non-Japanese players. In fact, I have heard that it is not uncommon even for natural-born Japanese to have difficulties with some of the more complicated concepts of traditional culture, as it has become incredibly complex over the centuries.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 04 July 2012 - 06:00 AM.