139 replies to this topic

[Viges]

Dragon Slayer was the closest to p2w but It was long ago. Then it was clans release and they were p2w for some time. Since they went for cbills and were balanced a little there is nothing to whine about

[Gagis]

ShinVector, on 05 May 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:

Notice you didn't talk about that other Raven... Huu Huu...

Firestarters brawl better than the Huginn, Raven 3L survives better than the Huginn and Raven-2X does peek-a-boo better than the Huginn.

Huginn however is the king of Kill St-- Securing and taking out targets who are unaware of you.

[Stonefalcon]

I see plenty of morons with their Miseries and Invasion Clan mechs doing sheet all damage and then I think to myself, "No way in hell is this game pay2win", the skill component is still critical as evident by these poor chaps thinking they can pay2win

[LordBraxton]

Firstly, Pay2Win = pay for even a slight advantage... Even the smallest advantage is too much. Pay for early access is pay2win when there is ALWAYS something out for early access. The IS packs might not be P2W, but the reinforcement mechs, as well as the clan packs, often contain distinct advantages behind longterm paywalls. I would agree with vassago. When the clans came out, the Twlf, Scrow, and Dire, were all especially OP, as there were no quirks fo IS mechs. That was half a year of P2W. Then the hellbringer was pay2win, bringing ECM on a hard hitting 65ton platform. Now we have 'gift' mechs with ECM hardpoints and armor boosts. MWO = P2W. The argument that skil trumps P2W is stupid, the idea of P2W is that 2 pilots of equal skill should not be able to purchase advantages. In MWO there are always advantages to be bought.

Edited by LordBraxton, 05 May 2015 - 04:40 AM.

[Escef]

Rejarial Galatan, on 04 May 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

ive played a few matches since my return, even managed a kill as rusty as i am. but, its the echoes of this games past that are screaming loudest. So, if what ive read so far, it is, but it is not pay to win. sounds like its a twisted skill means more. guess ill need to lurk around some more.

Long story short, if you thought the game was P2W before than you are going to think it now as well. Is the game P2W? No, nor has it ever been. But if you are the type to think the game is P2W than you are just looking for something to blame your losses/deaths on.

[Zookeeper Dan]

So what if people that pay have a slight advantage? Skill and teamplay will always be way more important!

I'm not advocating a big imbalance, but I could see a slight advantage for people who support the game with real money. Especially if it would mean that PG could hire another couple of programmers or map modelers and make general gameplay improvements more quickly.

You get what you pay for.

[crustydog]

I'm pretty much a F2P player. Why is that? I come from an era when you didn't spend $1000 dollars on a computer game. I also don't own a cell phone (I have a land line) and I drink tap water - not bottled.... (I bottle my own, in glass mason jars, and put them in the fridge.)

You could say I'm getting old.

I have and will buy mech bays.... they don't break the bank.

I have crawled my way up from the pug queues and now I drop CW with one of the best units in the game. I am not one of the best players - far from it, but I guess I'm good enough to be included in their ranks. I got here through pure grind... but then again, I have the time to do that.

In my opinion, I prefer to go up against better mechs anyways, because that is the only way you continue to sharpen your skills.

Which brings me to this morning. This morning I saw a running clan mech score two head shots in a row against a Raven that had its back turned to the clan mech - from a range of more than 400 meters. Possibly the Raven wasn't exactly fully facing away from the clan mech... possibly the clan pilot is simply an ace shot or a lucky one.... I do know they exist. Possibly HSR just made a funny calculation... that happens too.

Yet this situation reminded me of another possibility: there are indeed some other Pay to Win aspects to this game... only it isn't necessarily PGI who is getting paid for them.

[XtremWarrior]

Anjian, on 05 May 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

The worst thing about this game is consumables that you pay MC for, high grade artillery and air strikes, and coolants. That is pay 2 win in my book and those things should not be in the game or they need to be directly accessible with ingame currency.

Eric Wulfen, on 05 May 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

not even gold consumables (which I have got due to give aways but have never used).

Cathy, on 05 May 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

You can buy air/artillery strikes, and UAV, for slightly more damage or in the UAV case more air time, but if people call that pay to win then i'm really really laughing at those that do, because to buy those few extra seconds is the act of desperation and admission of how bad the person using them is and not an advantage, as any team that's even slightly competent shoots down UAV's in seconds, and isn't a stationary target for strikes.

Raggedyman, on 05 May 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

The only Pay-To-Win bit are the consumables, however even those are limited in usage/effect so it's a lot more "Pay-To-Gain-An-Edge".

Wow, guys, that's trully amazing! You've all been in the game from a long time and, still, there is only one guy to be right about it:

o0Marduk0o, on 05 May 2015 - 03:14 AM, said:

Uhm, you can buy exactly the same consumables for CBills, after unlocking them for GXP.

Pay2Huh...?

Also it was 3 months to get DW by Cbills, 4 for the SCR and 5 for the TBR. Yes it wasn't fun at first, but it wasn't really for half a year. As for Wave2, only HBR was kinda OP (but still not as a TBR), and mostly in CW only.

Edited by XtremWarrior, 05 May 2015 - 05:59 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Has there been "Pay to Win" in this game? Yes.

Its the one mistake this game has made in my opinion, is the introduction of Omni mechs, They made a mess of it in almost every way. How many players they lost because of it, is anyones guess. Clan, were pay to win and until they are balanced that ghost will haunt this game still.

Anyway, as anyone reading my replies cant tell I am not upset at the guys making this game for doing the "Pay to WIn" mistake. But I do make a point about the balance problems often.

[Jody Von Jedi]

The Mech Daddy, on 05 May 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

Grid iron is the best hunchback. This isn't pay 2 win?

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I'll put my 4P up against it any day.

[Sug]

I'm having trouble deciding if some of the people in this thread are amazing trolls or morons.

[Wintersdark]

Anjian, on 05 May 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

Pay 2 Win isn't in the premium mechs, as long as the premiums are identically the same or worst spec as the regular ones. This is arguable in this game, because premiums are not identically speced as the regular ones, and whether they are better or worst is up to case to case argument.

They don't need to be identical, or even worse. They just can't be objectively superior to everything else in the weight class.

Quote

Early access via paywall is as bad as pay 2 win, even though its not exactly pay to win. Content should be equal simultaneous access, either you pay for it, or grind towards it. Access should be equal with real money or ingame currency.

It's absolutely not as bad as pay to win. Pay to win is terrible, because a free player cannot compete with an equally skilled paying player in a P2W environment. Pay for early access, though? The free player still can compete, he just has to not be an entitled git and expect all the toys (that are not better, because this isn't P2W) immediately. Sure, you have to wait, but you can use that time to do the grinding for the cbills.

Quote

The worst thing about this game is consumables that you pay MC for, high grade artillery and air strikes, and coolants. That is pay 2 win in my book and those things should not be in the game or they need to be directly accessible with ingame currency.

They are accessible with ingame currency.

Before ranting, maybe you should actually look? Sure, the cbill versions have different names, but they are functionally identical. 40k cbills or 15 mc, they're exactly the same.

Escef, on 05 May 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

Long story short, if you thought the game was P2W before than you are going to think it now as well. Is the game P2W? No, nor has it ever been. But if you are the type to think the game is P2W than you are just looking for something to blame your losses/deaths on.

To be fair, I'd argue that there was an element of P2W unintentionally at Clan release, if you bought the Timberwolf or Stormcrow. Particularly before the weapon nerfs and locking of jump jets.

But that was 2 mechs, not clans/omnimechs as a whole.

[Sjorpha]

P2W is any kind of competitive advantage being paywalled at any given moment, in that sense there is currently a few P2W elements in the game. First of all it is practically unfeasible to build a competitive mech stable without buying mechbays, then you have a few distinct chassis that offer advantages that no cbill variant can replicate. Currently these are mainly the Griffin 2N and the TBR with shoulder lasers, these two are the only ones I see that can't be matched by F2P chassis for what they do.

You can also argue that the misery is the best chassis in a few situations, if you want a ridge peeking IS gauss/erll sniper under 100 tons for example, to fit in a CW dropdeck. It may also be tied for one of the best IS assault brawlers. But in practice there is not many situations where a 4N is not stronger, for me the misery fits into dropdecks with two stalkers, but that is just because I don't want to buy another 4N and like the flavour of the misery.

The DS was P2W under the poptart meta, no denying that, as was the ember in it's glory days.

Huginn and Pirate's bane are special cases, they do offer unique things, extreme DPS light and ECM 20 tonner that can be instrumental in CW, but neither of them are the best variant of their chassis (those are Locust 1E and Raven 2X). So I'm torn on the P2W element there.

Grid Iron, well it's the best medium gauss platform by far, so yeah perhaps a bit P2W.

I suspect the Arctic Cheetah will be P2W in the sense of being the best light in the game while paywalled, but some people would argue that early access don't qualify as P2W and I don't know what to think myself really.

I'm largely OK with PGIs judgement on this, there is enough F2P competitive mechs for it to work out.

Edited by Sjorpha, 05 May 2015 - 06:02 AM.

[XtremWarrior]

Sug, on 05 May 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

I'm having trouble deciding if some of the people in this thread are amazing trolls or morons.

Was about to "like" your post - cuz i feel the same - then i realized that, depending on where your point of view stands from, i might be one of those!

[Ratpoison]

Sjorpha, on 05 May 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

P2W is any kind of competitive advantage being paywalled at any given moment, in that sense there is currently a few P2W elements in the game. First of all it is practically unfeasible to build a competitive mech stable without buying mechbays, then you have a few distinct chassis that offer advantages that no cbill variant can replicate. Currently these are mainly the Griffin 2N and the TBR with shoulder lasers, these two are the only ones I see that can't be matched by F2P chassis for what they do.

You can also argue that the misery is the best chassis in a few situations, if you want a ridge peeking IS gauss/erll sniper under 100 tons for example, to fit in a CW dropdeck. It may also be tied for one of the best IS assault brawlers. But in practice there is not many situations where a 4N is not stronger, for me the misery fits into dropdecks with two stalkers, but that is just because I don't want to buy another 4N and like the flavour of the misery.

The DS was P2W under the poptart meta, no denying that, as was the ember in it's glory days.

Huginn and Pirate's bane are special cases, they do offer unique things, extreme DPS light and ECM 20 tonner that can be instrumental in CW, but neither of them are the best variant of their chassis (those are Locust 1E and Raven 2X). So I'm torn on the P2W element there.

Grid Iron, well it's the best medium gauss platform by far, so yeah perhaps a bit P2W.

I suspect the Arctic Cheetah will be P2W in the sense of being the best light in the game while paywalled, but some people would argue that early access don't qualify as P2W and I don't know what to think myself really.

I'm largely OK with PGIs judgement on this, there is enough F2P competitive mechs for it to work out.

Mech bays are so OP PGI, plz stop this P2W nonsense!

[Almond Brown]

The most interesting point in all this P2W (bs) chatter is that after every Mech arrived, and only those who paid up front for access had them, they died on the battlefields just like every other Mech that was on that same Battlefield.

If someone has some personal stats they would like to share after they got any of these so called P2W Mechs, please do. Surely a 25-1 K/D ratio would be worth sharing and proving a point. How about a P2W Mech that provided a 17-1 K/D ratio? 10-1 perhaps. If someone did Pay2Win, surely there is a record of it somewhere...

Being bitter about having to wait for a Mech? Children...

Haters gonna Hate. (every chance they get too)

Edited by Almond Brown, 05 May 2015 - 07:10 AM.

[Insects]

None of the hero's are best. It is even common for them to make less cbills than a standard chassis even with their cbills bonus.
Perhaps if 4N gets nerfed due to excessive tears then Misery could go back to being best Stalker...

Though they usually aren't the worst either, they will often make a good second or third varient when working towards mastery.

Of course people may enjoy their hero the most, they tend to be a bit unique, go against the usual load out so that can lead to some fun.

[Christof Romulus]

I have bought, LITERALLY, every single mech pack at it's highest incarnation - totaling well over 500 real life dollars at this point.

WHY HAVE I NOT WON YET?!

[Jetfire]

Vassago Rain, on 04 May 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

Clan paywalling was the primary reason I barely played back then, yes.

No, P2W doesn't mean that you instantly lose. It means you can buy power, which is what they were. Stop pretending you're too dense to grasp what terms mean. MWO took a huge blow when they went with P2W clans hidden behind a 6 month paywall, and they've yet to recover from it.

I can't see them ever recovering from it. The game was already infamous for being grindy and expensive without 240 dollar grab deal packs, and clans only in the hands of paying players. It was nice of PGI to nerf them as they released for c-bills, though. Great touch.

Clan Paywall was a big mistake, even as a Gold mech owner I would prefer things went CB available on release day. I am good with the special bonuses. As for recovering from it... that remains to be seen. I think they have a shot if they do things right up to the steam release. If they remake the NPE and decrease the grind I don't think P2W claims will be an ongoing issue.

[Revis Volek]

Rejarial Galatan, on 04 May 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

Ok. Before you get all jumpy. Take note of something. I have not been here for more than 2 years now. I left because things started to look like pay to win. I have a simple question, but first, a simple statement.

One of the core pillars that were sold to us back when becoming a founder was a thing as was closed beta was this: pilot skill will determine who wins, not how much real world money he or she has put into it.

I am seeing sooo many hero/champion mechs, I cannot stop myself from thinking that this went from the above to a pay to win style game. am i just misreading stuff or is it really pay to win?

SO...which Hero mech killed you?


Because they are so OP the only one that even comes close is the Huggin and he is still a RVN.

Jetfire, on 05 May 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Clan Paywall was a big mistake, even as a Gold mech owner I would prefer things went CB available on release day. I am good with the special bonuses. As for recovering from it... that remains to be seen. I think they have a shot if they do things right up to the steam release. If they remake the NPE and decrease the grind I don't think P2W claims will be an ongoing issue.

So please explain to me how PGI is suppose to make money? I would love to see a better way of releasing the mechs that was just as lucrative for PGI.

Edited by DarthRevis, 05 May 2015 - 07:57 AM.