260 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 05 May 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

For all of the single Gauss builds out there, that would be a pretty significant buff. For example, "Gauss vomit" builds that combine 1 Gauss with a bank of lasers...

Dual Gauss is hard to evaluate whether it would be a tiny nerf, no overall nerf, or a small net buff.

I mean in addition to the charge up. Unless Gauss gets minimum range, it is silly to remove the charge mechanic. And nerf Grid Iron quirks cause it is just ridiculous, among other ridiculous IS quirks.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 May 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 05 May 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

I mean in addition to the charge up. ---

Oh. :\

In that case, it would probably be a bit too heavy-handed to have both the charge and the cap of 1.


Maybe have the charge time be based on how many Gooses are being charged? I.e. have a pair of them charge a lil bit slower than they do now, but a single one would be about the same or only a tiny bit quicker?

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 05 May 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

Oh. :\

In that case, it would probably be a bit too heavy-handed to have both the charge and the cap of 1.


Maybe have the charge time be based on how many Gooses are being charged? I.e. have a pair of them charge a lil bit slower than they do now, but a single one would be about the same or only a tiny bit quicker?

There are other ways to make the nerf more tolerable such as reducing the time between multiple Gauss shots from 0.5 second to 0.3, for example. Charge timer based on Gauss number is fine too but I really do not want two or more Gauss firing at the same time. 30 PPFLD damage is mostly the reason why 3 ER/PPCs suffer heavily from GH and had their speed reduced.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 May 2015 - 06:50 PM.

[Bloody]

Light Mech got rocked while running across open terrain?

Maybe good shot by the shooter but in this case I say LOLOL Learn to use cover noob.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 05 May 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

There are other ways to make the nerf more tolerable such as reducing the time between multiple Gauss shots from 0.5 second to 0.3, for example. Charge timer based on Gauss number is fine too but I really do not want two or more Gauss firing at the same time. 30 PPFLD damage is mostly the reason why 3 ER/PPCs suffer heavily from GH and had their speed reduced.

Noooo..., don't nerf the dual Gauss build. Thirty points of PPFLD damage from dual Gauss is fine in my book. Not many mechs can do that.

Before someone mention it, Dire Wolf is special case because it can mount so many weapons. It might not be wise to base weapon balance of a DW capability.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ill let you remove Gauss Charge, but it gets its velocity nerfed to like 1600ms.

[Johnny Z]

Bloody, on 05 May 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

Light Mech got rocked while running across open terrain?

Maybe good shot by the shooter but in this case I say LOLOL Learn to use cover noob.

My example in the Op was purely to show that charge isnt effecting everyone fairly. Period.

If a dual gauss dire wolf can hit the right torso of a commando weaving and go across not directly in front at 150 kph and one shot it, then the mechanic is not working as intended. Period.

Not asking for a Gauss nerf. Asking for the charge to be removed so it is an even playing for everyone wanting to use the gauss. No reason players using third party programs should be better off using it than legit players if it can be helped.

Much like my 3 x SSRM 2's on my commando the gauss isnt OP in alot of ways. It may be OP if only program assited players can use it properly though.

Again if the charge isnt do its job then remove it. The charge as a game play element only making it more difficult for regular players to play isnt what it was made for.

The higher skill arguement would be valid if the mechanism wasnt being bypassed.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 May 2015 - 07:39 PM.

[Lightfoot]

MWO's Gauss Rifle is stupid. Remove the charge up and lower the projectile speed a bit and raise the recharge time a bit. Balance perfect, accessibility for all MWO players. This would be a Battle Tech Gauss Rifle, which is just a Mech-sized Rifle. If you want to bring Duke Nukem's Sniper Rifle into MWO use the apocryphal Railgun for your new mech Sniper Rifle.

The Gauss Rifle does not have a de-syncing charge-up. Read:

"Introduced in 2590 by the Terran Hegemony, the Gauss Rifle utilizes a series of electromagnets to propel slugs of ferrous nickel-iron alloy at extremely high velocities, making it a devastating and lethal long-range weapon. Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.

Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes."

In fact the text specifically states that the weapon is in the capacitor charged state or it could not explode. So it does not matter what you or I like, give us back the real Battle Tech Gauss Rifle. It has a pivotal place in the Battlemech arsenal and must not be removed and replaced with Duke Nukem's Sniper Rifle.

[Clownwarlord]

Excluding the this happened to me because ...

Why should gauss rifles have the charge up removed?

- Tough to use by beginers.
- Not really much of an issue for experanced players.

What would I suggest as an ulternative for the charge up?

- Longer reload per each gauss rifle fired on the mech.

Why do I suggest a longer reload PER gauss rifle fired?

- Well for those mechs that only carry one they can snap fire it and not have any issues. The original issue with gauss was dual and pop tarting. But since current game play has all but destroyed poptarting gauss rifle by hover jets (highlander, victors, cataphracts all nerfed due to current mechanics). The only remaing issue is dual gauss mechs, and this is where PER gauss rifle fired comes in. If they fire one and then .5 second later fire the other no issue but firing 2 causes a big draw on the recharge. Since there isn't heat associated with gauss rifles then that leaves reload.

IF x = 1
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time)
IF x = 2
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time * 1.25)
IF x = 3
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time * 1.5)
IF x = 4
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time * 2)

Having an exponential form of doubling that .25 to .5 to 1 to 2 to 4 to 8 times for firing 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 to 6 Gauss Rifles at the same time or with in that .5 time frame of when the first gauss rifle was fired. In actually it would be more of a quirck for the weapon than for mechs. Just an idea let me knwo what you think.

[Johnny Z]

clownwarlord, on 05 May 2015 - 07:38 PM, said:

Excluding the this happened to me because ...

Why should gauss rifles have the charge up removed?

- Tough to use by beginers.
- Not really much of an issue for experanced players.

What would I suggest as an ulternative for the charge up?

- Longer reload per each gauss rifle fired on the mech.

Why do I suggest a longer reload PER gauss rifle fired?

- Well for those mechs that only carry one they can snap fire it and not have any issues. The original issue with gauss was dual and pop tarting. But since current game play has all but destroyed poptarting gauss rifle by hover jets (highlander, victors, cataphracts all nerfed due to current mechanics). The only remaing issue is dual gauss mechs, and this is where PER gauss rifle fired comes in. If they fire one and then .5 second later fire the other no issue but firing 2 causes a big draw on the recharge. Since there isn't heat associated with gauss rifles then that leaves reload.

IF x = 1
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time)
IF x = 2
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time * 1.25)
IF x = 3
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time * 1.5)
IF x = 4
THEN Reload = (Normal Reload Time * 2)

Having an exponential form of doubling that .25 to .5 to 1 to 2 to 4 to 8 times for firing 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 to 6 Gauss Rifles at the same time or with in that .5 time frame of when the first gauss rifle was fired. In actually it would be more of a quirck for the weapon than for mechs. Just an idea let me knwo what you think.

As long as the CGauss or the Gauss is not OP or UP and is of equal difficulty for all regular players then fine. Its not my favourite and is not a big deal. I almost coulnt care less. What does bother me and I assume other players not using 3rd party programs, is if its proper use is behind a 3rd party program wall.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 May 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lightfoot, on 05 May 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

MWO's Gauss Rifle is stupid. Remove the charge up and lower the projectile speed a bit and raise the recharge time a bit. Balance perfect, accessibility for all MWO players. This would be a Battle Tech Gauss Rifle, which is just a Mech-sized Rifle. If you want to bring Duke Nukem's Sniper Rifle into MWO use the apocryphal Railgun for your new mech Sniper Rifle.

The Gauss Rifle does not have a de-syncing charge-up. Read:

"Introduced in 2590 by the Terran Hegemony, the Gauss Rifle utilizes a series of electromagnets to propel slugs of ferrous nickel-iron alloy at extremely high velocities, making it a devastating and lethal long-range weapon. Unlike most traditional ballistic weapons, the Gauss Rifle does not use combustible propellant, so its firing generates very little heat. However, the sheer mass and bulk of the weapon limits its applications.

Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes."

In fact the text specifically states that the weapon is in the capacitor charged state or it could not explode. So it does not matter what you or I like, give us back the real Battle Tech Gauss Rifle. It has a pivotal place in the Battlemech arsenal and must not be removed and replaced with Duke Nukem's Sniper Rifle.

I vote for it to get like a 6s reload....ofc that would make very little difference

8 rounds per ton of ammo
6-8s CD
1600ms velocity
no charge.

[Taffer]

I just don't like the charge thing. I think it's silly. I don't have to charge my lasers or anything else, why do I have to charge gauss? Lower velocity and longer cooldown would be fine with me.

[Clownwarlord]

Well the idea behind my thought is there wouldn't be a charge to shoot the gauss you can snap fire it which means even new players will not have an issue. Where you pay for the gauss is if you fire more than one it causes a longer reload which means quad dire gauss will have to wait twice as long for a reload against a regular gauss rifle.

[Vanguard836]

Yokaiko, on 05 May 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

I can still snap fire with the charge up.

Good, as I said it's not a hard mechanic to adapt to.

[Johnny Z]

Vanguard836, on 05 May 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

Good, as I said it's not a hard mechanic to adapt to.

Well said. It takes nothing more than the use of a third party program, then the machanic can be completely ignored. Not cool.

[MysticLink]

I never used a macro and do well with it. The first day I played with it, I missed 90% percent of my shots. So it did take me sometime to learn, but, I think it makes it less effective in brawling, because you often miss the center torso, or the spot you want to hit as you have to shoot at a specific time. Lights can peak in and out, before getting shot right away. You can't simply torso twist and shoot, torso twist and shoot, or if you can, it's extremely hard.

Of course, the mechanic was never meant to make it that you can't shoot people with it whether they are running fast or not. That would be a stupid thing to do.

I think the mechanic is good. What I think the problem in this game, is not enough maps are designed for brawling. That's why people don't take brawling builds anymore.

In the beginning, the maps were designed pretty good for brawling and the spawn locations allowed it. Now the map designs don't allow brawling as a viable build. Some maps it's near impossible to brawl except till the end, when the match is pretty much done either way.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Johnny Z, on 05 May 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

My example in the Op was purely to show that charge isnt effecting everyone fairly. Period.

If a dual gauss dire wolf can hit the right torso of a commando weaving and go across not directly in front at 150 kph and one shot it, then the mechanic is not working as intended. Period.

Not asking for a Gauss nerf. Asking for the charge to be removed so it is an even playing for everyone wanting to use the gauss. No reason players using third party programs should be better off using it than legit players if it can be helped.

Much like my 3 x SSRM 2's on my commando the gauss isnt OP in alot of ways. It may be OP if only program assited players can use it properly though.

Again if the charge isnt do its job then remove it. The charge as a game play element only making it more difficult for regular players to play isnt what it was made for.

The higher skill arguement would be valid if the mechanism wasnt being bypassed.

You know, you were already of questionable character with the remarks about people using 3rd party tools, but to make it out that the ONLY way to use a Gauss easily is by using a 3rd party tool, you go beyond questionable into straight up tinfoil hat stupid.

No macros, no 3rd party tools, I take the legs off Lights moving 150+ without much effort. I simply know how to use the weapon because I practiced for about 20 minutes getting the charge mechanic down. The charge mechanic actually INCREASED my ability to hit with the Gauss and also decreased the number of bad shots, it's THAT bad on the player.

Red Foreman has a great saying to describe you...

[Naduk]

@op
yes some people will find the charge mechanic easy
my pre-charge accuracy with the gauss was 58.24%
my current accuracy with the gauss is 59.75%

clearly accuracy is not linked to the charge mechanic
so the charge mechanic is doing its job 100%
the mechanic is designed to slow the weapon down at close range
to remove the ability to snap fire the weapon

the gauss lack of heat, high damage, crazy projectile speed made it the ultimate multi-roll weapon

there was zero point to taking an AC20, AC10 or LBX10 as they could not compete in any way shape or form with the Guass rifle

the charge is doing its job
AC20 and friends are common place as go to brawler weapons on today's battlefield

majority of people do not wish to return to the MW4 days of Gauss+LL as the only viable weapons in the game, we had a taste of it in MWO and it was just as bad as MW4
thankfully PGI doesnt want that either

[Johnny Z]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 May 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

You know, you were already of questionable character with the remarks about people using 3rd party tools, but to make it out that the ONLY way to use a Gauss easily is by using a 3rd party tool, you go beyond questionable into straight up tinfoil hat stupid.

No macros, no 3rd party tools, I take the legs off Lights moving 150+ without much effort. I simply know how to use the weapon because I practiced for about 20 minutes getting the charge mechanic down. The charge mechanic actually INCREASED my ability to hit with the Gauss and also decreased the number of bad shots, it's THAT bad on the player.

Red Foreman has a great saying to describe you...

Im sorry the mention of players using 3rd party cheat programs to fire their weapons for them as a reason to remove the gauss charge has upset you. I think players using 3rd party programs to fire their weapons for them should be banned. Does that sound better?

Naduk, on 05 May 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

@op
yes some people will find the charge mechanic easy
my pre-charge accuracy with the gauss was 58.24%
my current accuracy with the gauss is 59.75%

clearly accuracy is not linked to the charge mechanic
so the charge mechanic is doing its job 100%
the mechanic is designed to slow the weapon down at close range
to remove the ability to snap fire the weapon

the gauss lack of heat, high damage, crazy projectile speed made it the ultimate multi-roll weapon

there was zero point to taking an AC20, AC10 or LBX10 as they could not compete in any way shape or form with the Guass rifle

the charge is doing its job
AC20 and friends are common place as go to brawler weapons on today's battlefield

majority of people do not wish to return to the MW4 days of Gauss+LL as the only viable weapons in the game, we had a taste of it in MWO and it was just as bad as MW4
thankfully PGI doesnt want that either

Your pretending that the gauss charge has changed the behavior of its use or its use in builds. Thats not true. It is completely ignored by the use of third party cheat programs. This is widely known and more importantly true.

Grats on your aim improvement since the charge has been added though.

[Hit the Deck]

Please tell me how this "3rd party cheat program" (or "macro" as far as I know) behaves so that players can ignore the charge mechanics.