431 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

even mw3 had destructible trees buildings and deformable terrain.... and that was like 15 years ago

[Anarcho]

Nuwa, on 12 May 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

Sorry what do you mean by PP dmg for regular acs?

Instead of the "splash" dmg by multiple rounds just one, like IS Acs does.

[Nuwa]

bump

[Zordicron]

What clammers really want is clan ballistic HSR fixed.

The AC's don't do the full dmg. not all the time. 1 shell hits out of 5 gives you a red crosshair, even if the other 4 dont register.

Last year, tryhards all said "lulz lasers, n00b weapons splash dmg everywhere, lurn to PPC/AC5 n00b"

nowdays, they all say "lulz clan ballistic splash dmg everywhere, lurn to laservomit n00b"

So, lasers went from "LOL" to the overpowering meta because..... the HSR was fixed last year, significantly.

Sure they changed some durations.... for IS. Clan lasers have longer durations then some of the clan ballistics. And yet, the dmg "doesnt splash all over the place" like all the loln00bs were doing last year?

C'mon man, the only thing that has changed is the HSR. lasers used to do 0-100% of the dmg on any given shot. Terribly unreliable, and every wasted, non registered hit of the hitscan still cost the heat. People played single shot ballistics, because all of the dmg most of the time was much better then some of the dmg all the time(average about half) especially in a poptart meta, or hill hump/peekaboo whatever. Alpha and cool, if your PPC's didnt register one out of 10, it was annoying, but the other 9 did full dmg. If your lasers were averaging 50% dmg, that means 5 of the ten actually did full dmg in the end net result.


EVERY META EVER HAS BEEN DRIVEN BY THE HSR.

Even before HSR, people used what was most reliable. PPC were actually BUFFED in early open beta to get people to use them. Once we got ballistic HSR, they became really popular, and the chain of never ending nerfs on them began.

Right now, lasers are the most reliable, and at the same time easiest to use/aim. it is no wonder they have taken over.


So again, what we want is for the clan AC's to actually register full dmg. Burst durations are shorter then the lasers are. that is important to remember when people spout off about "splash dmg all over". If the duration of the bburst is shorter then a laser, how is it the AC's splash all over and the laser doesnt? ANSWER: it doesnt, it just is doing the OL' 0-100% dmg trick lasers were doing last year.

Who wants to mount a 10 ton gun that only does 50% of its dmg on average to the target? That is why we have clammer laser boats. because the lasers do the dmg they are supposed to.

i know it's not as fun to talk about something that players have no input on, compared to playing spreadsheet warrior. But thats the issue. Want to make suggestions to try to circumvent the issue? Go ahead. PLayers did that for over a year when SRM were totally broken, and it didnt do ****. Nobody fielded the things until the SRM fix revived the weapons, no matter how much the dmg got buffed etc, when they didnt hit, it didnt matter, nobody used them. Soon as they registered, BAM, SRM brawlers, SRM brawlers everywhere. So go ahead, make suggestions about spreadsheet changes to clan AC's, it wont do any good untl the HSR is actually fixed.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 12 May 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

I'd rather improve IS Goose durability because I think the lethality/usability of both Gauss's is in a decent spot ATM.

How much additional HP is worth 3 tons of weight, ya think?

[Pjwned]

Shortening time between projectiles, reducing the number of projectiles in general, and/or increasing projectile speed a little bit seems like the proper way to make clan ACs more attractive.

[Pjwned]

El Bandito, on 12 May 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Clan ACs are lighter and take less space than IS ACs. Buff them if PGI must, but do not make them as good as IS ACs. Cause the Whale is gonna ride that buff train to OP territory.

Since we are trying to make things equal on weapon basis, shorten IS Gauss charge timer. Cause Clanners have Gauss with 3 ton less weight.

I would still rather see clan gauss rifles explode for more damage when destroyed, it's not like IS gauss really needs to be buffed.

FupDup, on 12 May 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

I'd rather improve IS Goose durability because I think the lethality/usability of both Gauss's is in a decent spot ATM.

With the way crits heavily favor pinpoint weapons with 10+ base damage it wouldn't really do all that much to increase its durability unless it was changed to be more durable than most equipment, and I don't really see that happening.

Edited by Pjwned, 12 May 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[LordNothing]

i wouldn't mind if the acs would be turned into continuous fire weapons, sorta like machine guns from hell. each clan ac would match the dps of the equivalent is autocannon. their fire rates would start around 3 times the rate of the is ac2 for the clan ac2, and about the rate of a quirked is ac5 for the 20, tweaking shell damage to match dps.

ultras would have an overall higher damage potential, higher burst rates, and slightly faster projectiles, where as standard clan autocannons would be for sustained damage with lower heat.

[Khobai]

Quote

Shortening time between projectiles, reducing the number of projectiles in general, and/or increasing projectile speed a little bit seems like the proper way to make clan ACs more attractive.

none of those things really fix the problem though.

1) clan lasers are better than clan ballistics in general.
2) podspace limitations and lack of lightweight ballistic options make clan lasers even more appealing

I think the only way clan autocannons can have a place is if clan autocannons are buffed and clan lasers are nerfed. the weapons need to be brought into relative parity with eachother.

Edited by Khobai, 12 May 2015 - 09:47 PM.

[Black Ivan]

Khobai, on 12 May 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

none of those things really fix the problem though.

1) clan lasers are better than clan ballistics in general.
2) podspace limitations and lack of lightweight ballistic options make clan lasers even more appealing

I think the only way clan autocannons can have a place is if clan autocannons are buffed and clan lasers are nerfed. the weapons need to be brought into relative parity with eachother.

Possible, but then again every other weapon in game has to be looked at and rebalanced, IS and Clan. Otherwise it will become a very quirky Meta once more.

Edited by Black Ivan, 12 May 2015 - 09:53 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Black Ivan, on 12 May 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Possible, but then again every other weapon in game has to be looked at and rebalanced, IS and Clan. Otherwise it will become a very quirky Meta once more.

And speaking of quirky... Quirks on relevant chassis need to be re-done during the rebalancing, or chassis that can actually make use of underperforming weapons (LBX, AC/2, PPC) will end up being ungodly potent once the relevant weapons systems stop generally sucking.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 12 May 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

none of those things really fix the problem though.

1) clan lasers are better than clan ballistics in general.
2) podspace limitations and lack of lightweight ballistic options make clan lasers even more appealing

I think the only way clan autocannons can have a place is if clan autocannons are buffed and clan lasers are nerfed. the weapons need to be brought into relative parity with eachother.

When compared to Inner Sphere you see that Clan ballistics are already lighter, smaller, have more range, and if I recall their projectiles are already a little bit faster in the first place.

What more do you expect from Clan ballistics while keeping them balanced? It's not like any of those things I suggested are somehow not a buff, and it can only go so far before something else needs to be done instead.

[VileKnight]

AC's need to be tweaked. We are not asking for more damage, but they need to be more viable than they currently are. I can't say how it needs to be fixed, but what I can tell you is that the current form is not working. You can't point to the 100 ton mech and say "oh whatever, it works" and use that as a good baseline. That's just nonsense.

[kapusta11]

Clans don't have a mech that can use ACs efficiently besides Dire Wolf which is way too slow. Just wait for 4x UAC5 Night Gyr with 10 tons of ammo.

[SmoothCriminal]

Pjwned, on 12 May 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

Shortening time between projectiles, reducing the number of projectiles in general, and/or increasing projectile speed a little bit seems like the proper way to make clan ACs more attractive.

This - insofar as it fixes the HSR problem. Once damage is registering properly, then we can start fiddling with bringing them up/down for balance (I would assume through fire rate). ACs run cool (just like the IS, it's their main pro) - so once fixed probably wouldn't need much tweaking at all. However, until that happens they will sit on the shelf and energy Omni pods will be used.

[El Bandito]

kapusta11, on 12 May 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

Clans don't have a mech that can use ACs efficiently besides Dire Wolf which is way too slow. Just wait for 4x UAC5 Night Gyr with 10 tons of ammo.

If by using effectively, you mean boating the hell out of them, then yes, the Whale is the only option. However, mechs such as Hellbringer and Timberwolf already can use single or dual CUACs in conjunction with lasers effectively. Soon the Ebon Jaguar will be another great addition.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 May 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Velocity would be great, and some tweaks to projectile counts for both IS and Clan; setting a different relationship between damage and projectile speed.

So I'd start with the idea of the more damage a projectile, the slower it is, I'd also raise the min damage for a single ballistic shot or pellet to 2 damage each, and tweak HPS some, details in spoiler below:

Spoiler

AC/02 | UAC/02 | LB02-X AC = 2.78 DPS (IS), 2.50 DPS (Clan) / HPS = 0.80 | 0.80 | 0.50 / Heat 0.58 | 0.64 | 0.40
For all three, one Projectile on normal cooldown, 0.72 Cooldown (IS), 0.80 Cooldown (Clan)

AC/05 | UAC/05 | LB05-X AC = 3.00 DPS / HPS = 1.00 | 1.00 | 0.60 / Heat 1.67 | 2.00 | 1.20
UAC: 3-shot burst, 2 damage each, 2.00 Cooldown (I'd like to see IS and Clan have the same style, but IS could keep 5 dam)
Three LB-X pellets, 2 damage each, 2.00 Cooldown

AC/10 | UAC/10 | LB10-X AC = 4.00 DPS / HPS = 1.20 | 1.20 | 0.80 / Heat 3.00 | 2.70 | 2.00
UAC: 5-shot burst, 2 damage each, (Speed is going from 950 to 1,300 m/s) or 2-shot burst, 5 damage, 2.50 Cooldown
Five LB-X pellets, 2 damage each 2.50 Cooldown

AC/20 | UAC/20 | LB20-X AC = 5.00 DPS / HPS = 1.75 | 1.75 | 1.50 / Heat 7.00 | 7.00 | 6.00
UAC: 5-shot burst, 4 damage each (1,232 m/s), or 4-shot burst, 5 damage each (1,198 m/s), 4.00 Cooldown
Ten LB-X pellets, 2 damage each, or five LB-X pellets, 4 damage each, 4.00 Cooldown

[MeiSooHaityu]

Clan A/Cs need a rework bad.

I'm still believe it should be burst, but maybe s reduction in the shell count would be OK. I'm more for increasing velocity or spacing between rounds first though.

Of course there is the issue of boating (specifically the Dire Wolf) too.

Maybe if the Dire Wolf sees negative ballistic quirks, ballistics in general will improve. Either that, or almost every mech gets positive ballistic quirks except the Dire.

In either case, something needs to be done eventually.

[Joseph Mallan]

Darian DelFord, on 12 May 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f15c0e16907158d

Clan U AC's are fine

I used those UAC20s... They are not fine. They are weak sauce. I see a Clan UAC20 and know I'm in for IS UAC5 damage.

[Xeraphale]

I'm pretty sure there was something said about the gap between rounds fired per salvo was going to be reduced, thus reducing spread of Clan AC shots.

It needs doing because clan ACs are almost worthless at anything over 400m