101 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

I think this is one of the reasons laservomit is so popular. Ballistic projectiles and PPCs tend to disappear more often. I just hit a Firestarter with dual gauss yesterday. Red cursor to confirm the hit, his paperdoll started blinking... and then nothing. No damage.

That being said... it's not really a huge issue for me. It's something that happens once every 20 matches, maybe less. There are much, much bigger concerns in this game, as I see it. My shots being blocked by invisible terrain and my mech getting stuck on tiny pebbles is something that happens in almost every match. So I'd much rather see them work on the big issues.

[bad arcade kitty]

>Red cursor to confirm the hit, his paperdoll started blinking... and then nothing. No damage.

ricochet
or
didn't penetrate armor

just like in the world of tanks!

[MrMadguy]

Aresye Kerensky, on 12 May 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

Yeah! This are exact problems, I encounter very often!
1) PPC with visual effect, that shows clear hit on moving target/while twisting your torso, but no damage being registered.
2) Red-cored 'Mech being immortal, even almost stationary or very slow (happened even vs Atlas, lol)
3) Little to no dmg via lasers.

And this have been Timber Wolf. Now imagine, that it could have been Firestarter or Spider! You simply would not be able to hit it at all - it would be completely invulnerable.

Currently only gauss rifles are effective against Lights. AC/20 was effective - it was nerfed to the ground (too low speed - too unpredictable trajectory, too big projectile drop - too hard to aim and lead target properly). PPC was effective - it was nerfed to the ground too (hitreg and "projectile-diameter-sticking-to-target effect" were ok at some moment, but then PPC turned into simple energy variant of AC/10 - it still "sticks" to corners, but doesn't "stick" to your targets anymore). But, I guess, everything points to gauss nerfs. And there will be literally no Light-countering weapons, expect Streaks+BAP, in this game. I can't see, how it could be a good balance.

P.S. This is the second game in a row, where game turns into "forum war against devs online" for me. And you should know, that I have already got sick of this and don't really want to do it again for months and years, as I've done in previous case. This time I will most probably just quit and take my money with me.

Edited by MrMadguy, 13 May 2015 - 12:31 AM.

[Thorqemada]

I spectated a Firestarter that was running STD Engine moving at a pace of ~105 kph.
Even that "slow" it got hit several times for no or only minor effect against overwhelming enemy odds until they brought it down.
In that case Firestarters do have "broken" hitboxes on top of the "Lag-Shield" - it needs to be "Jennerized".

PS: **** PPCs - see them visualy hit for virtualy no result.

Edited by Thorqemada, 13 May 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[Deathlike]

I read LRMs and stopped reading....

Just kidding...


I think there's something wrong with the models kinda "desyncing" from the server, probably due to lag and or map related stuff that triggers it.

It makes better sense to aim ahead (like, you might have to relearn some of that lag shooting from Open Beta) as things aren't always where they appear to be.

That's all I can say as it's not honestly getting better, and I'm just use to it as is.

[Satan n stuff]

Poisoner, on 12 May 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

hitreg is bad. Just not on any of the clan mechs.

The best way to kill a firestarter is to leg him. I never miss their legs.

I never miss their sidetorsos.

[N0MAD]

Adiuvo, on 12 May 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

A Firestarter can easily survive 5 gauss shots if the pilot can't aim. 3 to an arm before it falls off, all torsos can take a few, legs can take a few...

All of this talk of hitreg issues on specific mechs is surprisingly absent in high tier play, be it on a Firestarter or a Stormcrow. Wonder why that is...

Absent in high tier play, LOL, what high tier play? dont fool yourself a half dozen organised teams isn't what most would consider high tier, seal clubbing in 90% of matches, get over yourself.
People that cant shoot really? point and click at a target a couple of hundred m, travelling at snails pace compared to other games?
Try hitting a plane flying in multiple dimensions, at speeds of 500+kph while weaving in multiple dimensions, score 8-10 kills with people in similar high lvl planes (tier 5, highest tier) with 1 MG and a 37mm canon at ranges of 600m+ and then tell them they cant shoot.
You are talking to people here that have played competitive pvp online games for 20 years plus and you are saying they cant shoot a target close enough to pee on?
JUST LOL son.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Poisoner, on 12 May 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

hitreg is bad. Just not on any of the clan mechs.

Paging Mr. Stormcrow, paging Mr. Stormcrow.

N0MAD, on 13 May 2015 - 01:14 AM, said:

People that cant shoot really? point and click at a target a couple of hundred m, travelling at snails pace compared to other games?
Try hitting a plane flying in multiple dimensions, at speeds of 500+kph while weaving in multiple dimensions, score 8-10 kills with people in similar high lvl planes (tier 5, highest tier) with 1 MG and a 37mm canon at ranges of 600m+ and then tell them they cant shoot.

Proper "Boom and Zoom" tactics are advised to reduce the chance of weaving enemies, also please no Russian bias aircraft. 8-10 kills in those UFOs is about as impressive as posting high scores in a Timberwolf.

You may of course be referring to the P-39 and outside of WarThunder the Space Pope would actually consider a good P-39 pilot impressive.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 13 May 2015 - 01:24 AM.

[N0MAD]

You play the game, as per the russian UFO comment, indeed brother.
P39 has 4 mg to go with the 37mm btw.
Yes i was refering to the 9T, i dont play Russians often, altho i have Lvl them up, but we do for fun an gigles take them into Rank 4-5 matches (as you know 9T is rank 2). Still like to troll with them, still they dont make shooting any easier.
Main nation is German, but all my nations are at highest lvls

[Joey Tankblaster]

Novakaine, on 12 May 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

...
The FS9 was dancing and alpha striking a Direwolf.
It shut down at 3 times, managed to kill the Dire Wolf, then turn and killed the Shadow Hawk.
...

I dont believe that. Overheating is the only thing which should not happen as it eliminates the lag shield/magic hit box. A shutdown mech (regardless of being a Firestarter or something else) is easy prey.

[Romeo Deluxe]

MrMadguy, on 13 May 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

Yeah! This are exact problems, I encounter very often!
1) PPC with visual effect, that shows clear hit on moving target/while twisting your torso, but no damage being registered.
2) Red-cored 'Mech being immortal, even almost stationary or very slow (happened even vs Atlas, lol)
3) Little to no dmg via lasers.

And this have been Timber Wolf. Now imagine, that it could have been Firestarter or Spider! You simply would not be able to hit it at all - it would be completely invulnerable.

Currently only gauss rifles are effective against Lights. AC/20 was effective - it was nerfed to the ground (too low speed - too unpredictable trajectory, too big projectile drop - too hard to aim and lead target properly). PPC was effective - it was nerfed to the ground too (hitreg and "projectile-diameter-sticking-to-target effect" were ok at some moment, but then PPC turned into simple energy variant of AC/10 - it still "sticks" to corners, but doesn't "stick" to your targets anymore). But, I guess, everything points to gauss nerfs. And there will be literally no Light-countering weapons, expect Streaks+BAP, in this game. I can't see, how it could be a good balance.

P.S. This is the second game in a row, where game turns into "forum war against devs online" for me. And you should know, that I have already got sick of this and don't really want to do it again for months and years, as I've done in previous case. This time I will most probably just quit and take my money with me.

So much misinformation here and lots of, I guess, mad guy. AC20 is awesome in my Cent AH with a AC20 cooldown module. Once you are done with the (IS side at least) training wheels of the SSRM2's you learn to use the SRM4's. They don't spread as much as the SRM6's over distance and two of them can do real good work on lights. Just work the quirks.

I don't know much about clan mechs yet, only own 2 from last 2 events. I do agree with you that, PPC in particular, has hit reg issues. However, I still manage to get some good matches in with them. Have been mastering the Griffin's lately and have a PPC cooldown module and a ERPPC module as well.

Anyways, these kinds of threads always appear. Quite frequently even.

Edited by Romeo Deluxe, 13 May 2015 - 01:54 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Novakaine, on 12 May 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

Last night I was in a match, I watched a FS9 take 5 gauss shots.
And it still lived.
The FS9 was dancing and alpha striking a Direwolf.
It shut down at 3 times, managed to kill the Dire Wolf, then turn and killed the Shadow Hawk.
I was in the Shadow Hawk's cockpit watching.
That is just ridiculous.
I understand you put microscopic hit boxes on lights to improve their survivabilty.
Or no one would play them.
Not to mention the lag shield included.
Just plain stupid.
Oh and by the way increase the range on my tag, and fix my freaking lrms.
GRRRRRR.......
Rant over.
Commence QQ.

I know how you feel bro! I hate lights and they really ruin the game play in MWO.
I was trying to kill a Locust last night on Canyon but with the way the terrain is designed, the mech was hopping around every where. I died to his teammates but HOLY **** I wasted soo much time on a 20 ton mech and got barely any Cbills for it!

Edited by mogs01gt, 13 May 2015 - 04:37 AM.

[Zordicron]

Aresye Kerensky, on 12 May 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Stormcrow's pretty bad when it comes to hitreg. The funny thing is the Stormcrow and FS both have very thin, tall, vertical box-like hitboxes. Coincidence they both are labeled of having "magic hitboxes?"

My theory is with the current meta of laser vomit, the amount of calculations the server has to make is reaching insane levels. Thinner hitboxes means more "ticks" have to be calculated at a much faster rate as they sweep over an area. The end result is the server incorrectly calculates and/or flat out doesn't even register a calculation was supposed to happen.

End result?
- Mechs with thin, closely packed hitboxes take more punishment (Stormcrow, Firestarter).
- Shorter duration lasers register better damage (Fewer "ticks").
- Longer duration lasers lose damage in heated battles (More "ticks" = higher chance of dropped packets).

That would explain why mechs like the Stalker-4N and Raven-2X feel overpowered. It would also explain why certain Clan builds (especially ones w/ CERLL) feel underpowered. It would explain why the Stormcrow and Firestarter both get labeled as being insanely tough and OP......wait a second....

I...think...I may have just figured out all of MWO's problems. I shall now go assume my place as the Locus of All Knowledge. For those interested in contacting me you can find me at the returns desk of the Phoenix library, or offer me a hamburger.

I have been preaching this from my little soap box since HSR was introduced. It doesnt explain why only 2 mechs out of the lot are exceptionally tough.

As for HSR issues, see also:
Why Clan AC's dont work
Why slow moving ballistics, like nerfed PPC velocity, have spotty HSR
Why group blobbed LRM salvos dont work right
Why LBX, especially in pairs or more, are terribad reliable

I would go on but I have to go to work.

[Joseph Mallan]

Adiuvo, on 12 May 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

A Firestarter can easily survive 5 gauss shots if the pilot can't aim. 3 to an arm before it falls off, all torsos can take a few, legs can take a few...

All of this talk of hitreg issues on specific mechs is surprisingly absent in high tier play, be it on a Firestarter or a Stormcrow. Wonder why that is...

Dude 3 Gauss to a Light should make it crippled at least!

36 points to completely remove a light Mechs' arm? No wonder people thing they are indestructible!

[Lily from animove]

Adiuvo, on 12 May 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

A Firestarter can easily survive 5 gauss shots if the pilot can't aim. 3 to an arm before it falls off, all torsos can take a few, legs can take a few...

All of this talk of hitreg issues on specific mechs is surprisingly absent in high tier play, be it on a Firestarter or a Stormcrow. Wonder why that is...

this is so untrue. Sure there is hitspread, but the Tukayyid marathon showed me so many times that clear shots at Lights caused low or no damage at all. When you put 60+ laserdamage in the back of a lgiht and it still runs off with armor, there is something really really different going on. and then other matches, the exact same situation, and they just die, as you expect it. Hitreg is very inconsistent form match to match. And we even had enough videos in the forum proofing damage disappearing. It's not a matter of elo or skill.

[mogs01gt]

Lily from animove, on 13 May 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

this is so untrue. Sure there is hitspread, but the Tukayyid marathon showed me so many times that clear shots at Lights caused low or no damage at all. When you put 60+ laserdamage in the back of a lgiht and it still runs off with armor, there is something really really different going on. and then other matches, the exact same situation, and they just die, as you expect it. Hitreg is very inconsistent form match to match. And we even had enough videos in the forum proofing damage disappearing. It's not a matter of elo or skill.

The inconsistency is, in my opinion, the biggest problem. Last night, I walked up behind a Spider, alpha'd his rear LT and bam he was dead. Did the same thing a few matches later,,,the light just runs off.

Edited by mogs01gt, 13 May 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Deathlike, on 13 May 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

I read LRMs and stopped reading....

Just kidding...


I think there's something wrong with the models kinda "desyncing" from the server, probably due to lag and or map related stuff that triggers it.

It makes better sense to aim ahead (like, you might have to relearn some of that lag shooting from Open Beta) as things aren't always where they appear to be.

That's all I can say as it's not honestly getting better, and I'm just use to it as is.

You may be right Deathlike i remember back on early days some mechs running at top speed then overheating or shutdown willingly ended with warped hitboxes due lag registration.
(Somehow the server added extra meters of movement while the shutdown procedure and the mech Hitbox was displaced outside of the visual representation)

Just brougth this memory back due the Timby shutdown in the video.

[Novakaine]

Adiuvo, on 12 May 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

A Firestarter can easily survive 5 gauss shots if the pilot can't aim. 3 to an arm before it falls off, all torsos can take a few, legs can take a few...

All of this talk of hitreg issues on specific mechs is surprisingly absent in high tier play, be it on a Firestarter or a Stormcrow. Wonder why that is...

No this mech less than 25 meters away in shutdown mode.
Not once, a total of three times.
Freaking point blank.
The Shadow Hawk pilot had taken down 2 other mech a few mechs earlier.
Pilot aim was not the problem.
But a earlier poster may have just solved this eternal if not ridiculous situation.

[Novakaine]

Joey Tankblaster, on 13 May 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

I dont believe that. Overheating is the only thing which should not happen as it eliminates the lag shield/magic hit box. A shutdown mech (regardless of being a Firestarter or something else) is easy prey.

Believe what you want to believe, I was there unfortunately I was too dumbstruck to record it.
You must be new here.

[Bilbo]

TheCharlatan, on 12 May 2015 - 11:53 PM, said:

I was starting to worry that this week there was not going to be a "Fix FS9 hitreg" thread.

Hopefully this time PGI will at least say something like "we are looking into the problem". Now let's watch the discussion between the classic "FS9 has no problem, L2P" crowd and the "OMG, FS9 OP!" crowd for the hundredth time.

My position? I don't know if the FS9 has hitreg problems or just great hitboxes, in the meanwhile i sweep the legs and have no problems.

As is always the case, hitreg is a global problem. We notice it more on smaller targets that really should have just died by now.

Joey Tankblaster, on 13 May 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

I dont believe that. Overheating is the only thing which should not happen as it eliminates the lag shield/magic hit box. A shutdown mech (regardless of being a Firestarter or something else) is easy prey.

Sure... if you manage to figure out where the server thinks it stopped.