188 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Mystere, on 16 May 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Really? Really good players do not min-max?

oh they do and i never said they dont.
just that it will not affect them as much as many others that scream in this thread.
most propably because they know since ages that nerfs will come sooner or later.

[Havenless]

I'm really hoping they just remove all the quirks (positive and negative) from the TBR/SCR and just use them as a baseline to balance everything else around.

[Chrome Magnus]

QuantumButler, on 16 May 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

You have to wait long enough to fool people into thinking it's just a coincidence.

It's like someone predicting that there will be a war in the middle east because of <insert crazy conspiracy> and then saying "see, I was right just because one finally happened. Pretty much self fulfilling considering EVERY mech that's been out for a decent chunk of time has been "adjusted" and most of them nerfed at some point.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Evan20k, on 15 May 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

Only viable? I dunno what game you've been playing. The HBR/WHK are both exceptional mechs and that's before we even talk about the mighty DWF. The Gargoyle also silently became the best 80 tonner with quirks.

WHK and DWF are just big boxy targets, my Warhawk just seems to melt anymore.....twist or not, its like just a few shots and im critical in 3 spots...

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

I'm starting to hate the whole idea of quirks even more than ghost heat. Quirks have led to LESS mech and loadout diversity on the battlefield, the opposite effect of what was intended.

[Yokaiko]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 16 May 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

I'm starting to hate the whole idea of quirks even more than ghost heat. Quirks have led to LESS mech and loadout diversity on the battlefield, the opposite effect of what was intended.

Because PGI can't run a calculator.

[-Vompo-]

It is good for the devs to change the top mechs every now and again. When there are more viable mechs out there players by more mechs.
Why buy a mech pack if the old mechs are way better than the new ones?

[Weeny Machine]

Ravens? Seriously? Sure they are good but they die quite fast because they have no Firestarter hitboxes - especially when people aim for the legs

Edited by Bush Hopper, 16 May 2015 - 01:01 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

bad arcade kitty, on 15 May 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

the only viable clan mechs definitely don't deserve nerfs

Do you want to face off against my Summoner again to see if it is viable? Last time we met in battle I crushed your streakcrow after killing 6 other mechs. At least two of those kills were solo.

[XX Sulla XX]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

I don't really use timber wolves much anymore because I like to use LRMs. and the TW's side torsos blow out all too frequently. same with the hellbringer.

My stormcrow does really good with x2 LRM10s, x2 ERMeds and x3 SMPL though. but I guess that's just because it's OP.

This explains so much.

[XX Sulla XX]

Mystere, on 16 May 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Folks. Lets just have all mechs and weapons be the same. Mechs models and variants will then just be reskins and weapons will just be different via sound and visual effects. Then finally these balance arguments will come to an end.

Making them balanced does not make them all the same. What it does do is not make some mechs much better than all other mechs.

Mystere, on 16 May 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

You're just not getting it. Something that stinks like a pile of crap will still stink like a pile of crap unless something better is made to stink much worse than a pile of crap.

I get what you are saying your just wrong.

Mystere, on 16 May 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

The rationale many people are using is actually very simple:

Best = OP

But because something will always be the "best", it's basically a race to the bottom.

Thing is the TW and Storm crow are OP. They are better than they should be for the balance of the game. And its easy to see.

Eboli, on 16 May 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

I think TBRs are fine, Scrows need hitbox fixes, not quirks.

Cheers!
Eboli

They really arent. Just a look at the competitive scene and top Elo of the game will show you how OP they are for decent pilots.

[XX Sulla XX]

Summon3r, on 16 May 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

this is funny, PGI just doesnt get it at all, nerf what ever they want all it does is change other weapons and mechs to the new meta, they continue to try bandaids and bandaids with no adhesive at that.

If done correctly what it is doing is making the number of viable mechs larger giving more diversity. For example the Timber Wolf. Look at the Group tier list on metamechs below. If you nerf the TW so it is about the same as Tier 2 mechs. Then have the TW plus all the old Tier 2 mechs being tier 1. The goal is not to make the TW worse than those Tier 2 mechs but about the same.

Heavies

Tier 1: Timber Wolf TBR-A/C/D ; (F2P Version)
Tier 2: Hellbringer HBR-Prime/A/B | Summoner SMN-D | Thunderbolt TDR-9SE | Thunderbolt TDR-5SS | Mad Dog MDD-Prime/A/B | Quickdraw QKD-5K

Alienized, on 16 May 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

it only hurts those that cant play anything else than mechs that are
A: overquirked
B: too good from start

it wont hurt good players that much since, well, they dont rely on quirks etc.

This one really makes me laugh.

Havenless, on 16 May 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

I'm really hoping they just remove all the quirks (positive and negative) from the TBR/SCR and just use them as a baseline to balance everything else around.

They will not do this because of power creep. They started to do that and you just end up with to much fire power in games.

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 16 May 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

I'm starting to hate the whole idea of quirks even more than ghost heat. Quirks have led to LESS mech and loadout diversity on the battlefield, the opposite effect of what was intended.

No that was Clan being OP. The quirks have been used to try and make some IS mechs good enough to compete against Clan mechs.

[Elizander]

I don't pilot any of those (except for a 4N which I have on one of my extra free accounts once in a blue moon) so fire away.

[XX Sulla XX]

Satan n stuff, on 16 May 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

Do you want to face off against my Summoner again to see if it is viable? Last time we met in battle I crushed your streakcrow after killing 6 other mechs. At least two of those kills were solo.

Saying I have good games in (any mech) is not the same as viable. At some Elos against some opponents any mech is viable. Summoners are not really viable at higher Elos. That is why you do not see them in competitive games etc.

[Gremlich Johns]

I'd rather knockdown be reintroduced

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 16 May 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Anyways, I wonder how long it'll take PGI to actually post the quirks? I really want to theorycraft which Gundams will be slapped on the wrist, which ones killed, and which ones will still be viable for "competitive" players but unfun for anybody else. Ze suspense!

The post will automatically be visible, I'll assume, when it was supposed to be announced; some time Tuesday.


Anyone tweet Russ about it yet? Or Mike?

Edited by Mcgral18, 16 May 2015 - 12:43 PM.

[Wintersdark]

bad arcade kitty, on 15 May 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

the only viable clan mechs definitely don't deserve nerfs

Well, if they nerf them and the most overquirked IS mechs, I think we'd end up with a closer set of mechs on both sides of the table.

Mcgral18, on 16 May 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

The post will automatically be visible, I'll assume, when it was supposed to be announced; some time Tuesday.


Anyone tweet Russ about it yet? Or Mike?

I tweeted Russ and Tina.

Gremlich Johns, on 16 May 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

I'd rather knockdown be reintroduced

Sadly, knockdown has nothing to do with quirks. Nothing at all.

Knockdown is a difficult technical problem requiring lots of engineering time. Quirks are a game designer issue pretty much completely.

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Saying I have good games in (any mech) is not the same as viable. At some Elos against some opponents any mech is viable. Summoners are not really viable at higher Elos. That is why you do not see them in competitive games etc.

Sadly, it doesn't seem to matter how often this is said, people just don't get it.

Havenless, on 16 May 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

I'm really hoping they just remove all the quirks (positive and negative) from the TBR/SCR and just use them as a baseline to balance everything else around.

This is pretty ignorant and poor game design.

"No nerf, only buff" is bad. Sure, you can buff everything else to be as good as the very best mechs, but all that does is create power creep and endlessly shrinking TTK. You need to nerf the best and buff the worst, bringing everything closer to the midline.

[CrushLibs]

So the most over used mech in CW isn't getting touched?? The TDR should get nerfed slightly 5% here or there should do the trick.

[KuroNyra]

Stormcrow
SCR-Prime OmniPods
Head:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Armor Strength: No quirk
  
  • Previous value: -10%

Left Arm:

• Laser Duration: +6%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -6%
  
  • Previous value: None

Right Arm:

• Laser Duration: +6%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -6%
  
  • Previous value: None

SCR-A Omnipods
Left Arm:

• Laser Duration: +9%
  
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -9%
  
  • Previous value: -5%
• Additional Structure (LA) +5

Left Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +5% (same value as before)

Center Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +15% (same value as before)

Right Arm:

• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +7.5% (same value as before)

SCR-B OmniPods
Head:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Left Arm:

• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Laser Duration: +6%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -6%
  
  • Previous value: None

Left Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +10% (same value as before)

Center Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +15% (same value as before)

Right Torso:

• Torso Twist Angle (Yaw) +5 (same value as before)

Right Arm:

• Additional Structure: +5
  
  • Previous value: None
• Laser Duration: +9%
  
  • Previous value: +10%
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -9%
  
  • Previous value: -10%
• Energy Heat Generation: No quirk
  
  • Previous value: +7.5%

SCR-C OmniPods
Left Arm:

• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +7.5% (same value as before)

Left Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +5% (same value as before)
  
• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Center Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +15% (same value as before)

Right Torso:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Right Arm:

• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

SCR-D OmniPods
Left Arm:

• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +7.5% (same value as before)

Center Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +15% (same value as before)

Right Arm:

• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +7.5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +7.5% (same value as before)

Timber Wolf
TBR-Prime OmniPods
Left Arm:

• Laser Duration: +6%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -6%
  
  • Previous value: None

Left Torso:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Right Arm:

• Laser Duration: +6%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -6%
  
  • Previous value: None

TBR-A OmniPods
Left Arm:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Left Torso:

• Acceleration Rate (All Speeds) -5% (same value as before)
  
• Deceleration Rate (All Speeds) -5% (same value as before)
  
• Reverse Speed: -10% (same value as before)
  
• Laser Duration: +12%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -12%
  
  • Previous value: None

Center Torso:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Right Arm:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

TBR-C OmniPods
Left Arm:

• Laser Duration: +6%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -6%
  
  • Previous value: None

Center Torso:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Right Torso:

• Torso Turn Angle (Yaw) +10 (same value as before)

Right Arm:

• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +5% (same value as before)

TBR-D OmniPods
Left Arm:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Center Torso:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Right Arm:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +5% (same value as before)

TBR-S OmniPods
Left Arm:

• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Arm Movement Rate (Pitch) +5% (same value as before)
  
• Arm Movement Rate (Yaw) +5% (same value as before)

Left Torso:

• Jump Jet Capacity: +2 (same value as before)
  
• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) -3% (same value as before)
  
• Missile Cooldown: -2.5% (same value as before)

Center Torso:

• Jump Jet Capacity: +1 (same value as before)

Right Torso:

• Jump Jet Capacity: +2 (same value as before)
  
• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) -5% (same value as before)
  
• Missile Cooldown: -2.5% (same value as before)
  
• Laser Duration: +3%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -3%
  
  • Previous value: None

Right Arm:

• Laser Duration: +6%
  
  • Previous value: None
• Energy Cooldown Efficiency: -6%
  
  • Previous value: None

[Mcgral18]

KuroNyra, on 16 May 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Center Torso:

• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +15% (same value as before)

LOL, they didn't even touch the fact that the Crow turns FASTER and FURTHER than the light mechs.


And my TimberGod now has a 21% beam duration nerf.

ERML now has a burn time of 1.4 seconds, LPL at 1.35.

If you take the A LT, it has a 30% nerf. ERML=1.495 LPL=1.456

ERLL at 1.95 seconds. That's pretty significant.

Edited by Mcgral18, 16 May 2015 - 01:23 PM.