154 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Moldur, on 17 May 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

8v12 CW

superior clantech

regular queue clan mechs behave as they currently do.

This could work... IF and only if Mechs/omnis were played Stock.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 May 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Yokaiko, on 17 May 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

I loved R/R I was sitting on hunderds of mil, remember you map spend 2-3 mil fixing and rearming, but you could easily win 2.5 mil in a game.

I had no issues with R&R either, I was also sitting on more cbills than I knew what to do with, but too many people whined and complained and R&R was removed and won't be back, sadly.

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Clans used Zellbrigen until they found that the Inner Sphere did not recognize the rules and refused to abide by them. Clan Jade Falcon was the last Clan to modify their terms of engagement when it came to fighting honorably.

Phelan Kell was taken out in a Wolfhound by a Timberwolf, that is NOT Zellbringen. I'd list more occasions but you probably know them as well as I do, we're both old BTech purists after all, and we'd both love for this game to be TT in real time, despite us knowing exactly how badly we'd fare facing the Clans, we'd still have a blast. The Clans 'officially' offered Zellbringen at all times to all opponents, but like any military, we both know the 'official' reality and the grunt reality are two different things. Few Clan Trueborns offered or observed Zellbringen when facing the Inner Sphere forces, although Smoke Jaguar DID feel the Kuritans, at first, were most worthy of it due to the Bushido creed that most of the DCMS followed, and some epic 1v1 combats took place in DCMS territory due to that. That, however, changed with the death of the ilKhan, and Zellbringen was even less often followed in reality after that event, despite it not being 'officially' changed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 May 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

I had no issues with R&R either, I was also sitting on more cbills than I knew what to do with, but too many people whined and complained and R&R was removed and won't be back, sadly.



Phelan Kell was taken out in a Wolfhound by a Timberwolf, that is NOT Zellbringen. I'd list more occasions but you probably know them as well as I do, we're both old BTech purists after all, and we'd both love for this game to be TT in real time, despite us knowing exactly how badly we'd fare facing the Clans, we'd still have a blast. The Clans 'officially' offered Zellbringen at all times to all opponents, but like any military, we both know the 'official' reality and the grunt reality are two different things. Few Clan Trueborns offered or observed Zellbringen when facing the Inner Sphere forces, although Smoke Jaguar DID feel the Kuritans, at first, were most worthy of it due to the Bushido creed that most of the DCMS followed, and some epic 1v1 combats took place in DCMS territory due to that. That, however, changed with the death of the ilKhan, and Zellbringen was even less often followed in reality after that event, despite it not being 'officially' changed.

Phalan attacked the Timber Wolf... Thinking it would have little armor and (IIRC) that Timber was fighting someone else(?) Which allows a Clanner to engage the offender. The rule is the Timber Does not HAVE to accept the challenge of an inferior opponent.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 May 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[Project_Mercy]

Xv12 Is just a bad idea. Ignoring the fact that the current game can not do this, and can't do it without a decent amount of work, You (now) have 3 queues in this game.

a.) Solo Queue: The queue that most people hate, that you level mechs in, and that you can't count on anyone to do anything in. So the people leveling mechs will be stuck in whatever new/probably not very useful/whatever faction just came out. The other people who are there to farm C-bills will most likely use the mech they feel the most comfortable and that they can respond to their terrible teammates the most. So.. people level IS mechs (and probably suck) and everyone's farming in clan mechs. Not only do you give MM heart-attacks for this because you can't find enough IS mechs, you will not find balance in it even if the mechs are physically balanced; because the IS mechs will likely not be leveled and the people with the greater play time are in the clan mechs.

b.) Group Queue: People already don't want to drop in 12-mans. And trying to find those last 10+ is a pain. People like dropping in 4-6 man groups because it's easier on MM times. While you will likely see a bit more IS mech acceptance here; again people are mostly going to be in clan mechs, with the exception of those die-hard loyalists. Not enough to balance things out.. MM basically shuts down

c.) CW: You could do it here if the game had the capability, but since solo and group queues have basically shut down, it's unlikely CW is going to save the day. 100 people enjoy the game until it gets shut down a few months later.

[HellJumper]

First thing...

This is a BT game in name only so forget the balance you think of.

Secondly...

the game cannot be balanced cause if it could be balanced it would have been done in 3 years now

[Yokaiko]

HellJumper, on 17 May 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

the game cannot be balanced cause if it could be balanced it would have been done in 3 years now

It could be balanaced.

Just not by PGI's B team selves.

[MischiefSC]

Clan tech was always stupid. In fact the developers and writers from FASA actually said it was bad and that's why they released all the new tech for later expansions and tried to undo the imbalance.

Clan tech superiority is and was always a **** concept for which its creators have apologized. It is a flaw in game design that PGI is fixing, not something worth replicating.
You want to play super uber BA against scrub hordes then you can actually get the skills to be good, not demand that the game and player base be skewed to make you feel like that.

[Burktross]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

....How many people agree with you is the question...
I would like to think people would rather play Battletech than whatever game you think this is suppose to be

Even if we implement BV balancing we run into a problem:
No one wants to be cannon fodder for the big bad clannerscum.

8 IS v 4 Clanners, which players will feel more ****** after losing?

In Battletech TABLETOP you don't get that because cannon fodder doesn't matter-- they're board game pieces! Here we have to take into account each individual player getting to have fun.

[HellJumper]

Yokaiko, on 17 May 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

It could be balanaced.

Just not by PGI's B team selves.

thats why i said it cant be...i dont want to be obvious towards the development team

[Yokaiko]

HellJumper, on 17 May 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

thats why i said it cant be...i dont want to be obvious towards the development team

I've been calling them B team for years, and every time that I think there is hope, they do something dumb like this.

[Joseph Mallan]

Burktross, on 17 May 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Even if we implement BV balancing we run into a problem:
No one wants to be cannon fodder for the big bad clannerscum.

8 IS v 4 Clanners, which players will feel more ****** after losing?

In Battletech TABLETOP you don't get that because cannon fodder doesn't matter-- they're board game pieces! Here we have to take into account each individual player getting to have fun.

I chose Lyran Commonwealth specifically to stand in teh Clans way. BEFORE THE GAME WAS IN ALPHA!

[HellJumper]

Yokaiko, on 17 May 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

I've been calling them B team for years, and every time that I think there is hope, they do something dumb like this.

more has yet to come

[G is for Gamma]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

I did...also played megamek, was an admin for planetary campaigns in MC and MW3/4 and a HoF player for Starlance MW4

I still love Battletech...hence why I am still here...dealing with people who dont and just want another "shooter"

I love Battletech, have since I was a kid. I cut my teeth on mechs, When I was a wee little Gamma my dad would read me the TRO's and ancient Great House handbooks instead of tell me bed time stories. The joys of having a FASA employee as a father. I love the lore, I love the books (minus a few of the super soilder charecters that are just so unrealistically covered in plot armor its laughablee). I even remember the olden days before battle value where two six sided dice decided what mechs you got to take into a match.

Ever taken two locusts and a Zues against your Cousin who rolled a Warhammer, Ostroc, and Hunchback? Insanely fun.

Also insanely one sided. Almost as one sided as giving MWO table top values.

MWO is an arena shooter. Designed to appeal to a large market of gamers. We, the old guard, are not the target audience and I'm okay with that. Battletech is not a super mainstream series and if MWO can pull new players into our little realm of Sci-Fi action than I'm all for it.

But that means the game is going to have to be much more balanced and fair than TT ever was. Its also going to mean that the game is going to be balanced around solo and group que. That's the core game. Clan Mechs can't be stunningly better than IS because "that's the lore" because the core demographic isn't going to be familiar with the lore. Can clan mechs be better than IS by a small amount? Sure. Every game has some units that are better than others. The Timberwolf and Direwolf are good examples of mechs that are arguably the best in their class when matched up against IS or Clan.

but suggesting that thee game be focused on CW and balanced around TT rules is just silly to me.
.
CW is simply a cool game mode for those who want a more immersive experience. We've all experienced the long que times for CW outside of big events, but it takes a few minutes top to get a group que game up and as half a dozen people have already pointed out in an arena shooter style game TT rules are just insanely unbalanced.

Tl;Dr, balance around the core game mode and not around Table Top rules as TT rules are silly and not balanced in the slightest.

Edited by G is for Gamma, 17 May 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[KuroNyra]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

This could work... IF and only if Mechs/omnis were played Stock.

And that would be ridiculous.

Technicly , it should be IS Battlemech who should be constantly stock.

And Clans Mech being customazible at will. You don't call them Omnimech for nothing.

[Vlaitor]

KuroNyra, on 17 May 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

And that would be ridiculous.

Technicly , it should be IS Battlemech who should be constantly stock.

And Clans Mech being customazible at will. You don't call them Omnimech for nothing.

That would make the game ridiculously unplayable haha.
Thanks god IS's are more customizable.

[Joseph Mallan]

KuroNyra, on 17 May 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

And that would be ridiculous.

Technicly , it should be IS Battlemech who should be constantly stock.

And Clans Mech being customazible at will. You don't call them Omnimech for nothing.

I call them OmniMechs cause they can remove damaged sections and replace them quicker than rebuilding a damaged Mech section. The facts are Mechs can be altered more than Omnis, they just take longer to do it. A Clan warrior cannot send his Timber Wolf to a Custom Shop and get a new armor layout. His boss won't let him!!!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 May 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[KuroNyra]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

I call them OmniMechs cause they can remove damaged sections and replace them quicker than rebuilding a damaged Mech section. The facts are Mechs can be altered more than Omnis, they just take longer to do it. A Clan warrior cannot send his Timber Wolf to a Custom Shop and get a new armor layout. His boss won't let him!!!

And cost much more money.

They were easier to repare, but you could litteraly change the entire arm of a mech and change the weapons in it much more quickly.

While for the IS mech, they need hard material, literraly rebuilding the mech from scratch in some case and ONLY the most richous merc and nobles could afford to do that.
Don't think the Yen-lo-Wang is a generallity in the Battletech Universe.


During the time, Any Clan Warrior could ask for modification to his omnimech depending on the ressource. He could literraly use a brawler build one day, and the next morning a LRM build.

[Flutterguy]

KuroNyra, on 17 May 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

And cost much more money.

They were easier to repare, but you could litteraly change the entire arm of a mech and change the weapons in it much more quickly.

While for the IS mech, they need hard material, literraly rebuilding the mech from scratch in some case and ONLY the most richous merc and nobles could afford to do that.
Don't think the Yen-lo-Wang is a generallity in the Battletech Universe.


During the time, Any Clan Warrior could ask for modification to his omnimech depending on the ressource. He could literraly use a brawler build one day, and the next morning a LRM build.

That's not really true. It's not the rich that usually ended up with the awesome custom mechs, they could afford to restore to factory standards, it's the poor mechwarriors who had to make do that got the most customized mechs. Like the Temax Cat Ninjabolt for example.

[KuroNyra]

Flutterguy, on 17 May 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

That's not really true. It's not the rich that usually ended up with the awesome custom mechs, they could afford to restore to factory standards, it's the poor mechwarriors who had to make do that got the most customized mechs. Like the Temax Cat Ninjabolt for example.

And in any case, theses changes required money, structure and couldn't be done in a matter of hours.
And your using the example of a SOLARIS Battlemech...
Created in 3075.


We're in 3050


Unlike the Omnimechs.

Edited by KuroNyra, 17 May 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

KuroNyra, on 17 May 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

And that would be ridiculous.

Technicly , it should be IS Battlemech who should be constantly stock.

And Clans Mech being customazible at will. You don't call them Omnimech for nothing.

And you have no actual understanding of the BattleTech game.

Inner Sphere Mechs ARE customizable, it's done all the time, even in military units. It just takes time and money, which most IS pilots end up with at some point, provided they survive for very long.

Clan Mechs are NOT customizable, at all. OmniMechs can be patched up after battle faster and easier, and weapon configurations can be changed before combat, provided you have enough time to do so, it's not exactly instant, it takes hours, and YOU don't get to decide the loadout as the MechWarrior, your superiors decide what it will have on it based on what THEY want to see happen in the engagement. And as a Clan Trueborn Mechwarrior, you take the OmniMech your superiors have assigned you and you pilot it regardless of what is on it and what you would prefer to have on it. You don't HAVE the right to ask for something else, and only highly ranked officers get the option of deciding on what might be on their Mech, they often don't get the choice of WHAT Mech however, it's whatever is sitting around combat ready more often than not. Too many people read something out of one of the novels and think that it's ALWAYS like that for everyone. Nope, plot devices are not the norm, stop acting like they are.

If you read about it in a novel by Stackpole, it's probably not actually how things work, just so you know. He was always in trouble about that with FASA and the fans, he did it SO much that it's now called Stackpoling when a character in a novel does something so stupidly over the top that it's outside the bounds of even scifi or fantasy!