154 replies to this topic

[KuroNyra]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 May 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

If you FORCE someone to play a specific way by hitting them with negatives and they still WIN playing their own way, guess what is going to happen. That's right, they will ignore the forced bs and play their own way because winning means more.

Not when the result are so low they would win barely enought to repair a part of there mech and win less than 50.000C-bill.

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 May 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

Even the Clans in the lore stopped using their own rules of engagement against the IS within the first year of the Invasion, you MIGHT want to remember that the next time you bring those up.

You seem to forget. We're in 3050, CW map is reset, we are at the start of the sort-ofwannabe-invasion that barely progress despite the OPness of the Clans.

Edited by KuroNyra, 17 May 2015 - 08:56 AM.

[ArchAngelWC]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

To be fair, if PGI followed more of the Core rules Clans would be completely mopping up the Inner Sphere.

They wouldnt tho...It has only happened one time..and it took me convincing Comstar to become a Clan and shut down the IS HPG grid...while we both ravaged the Lyrans..and only the Lyrans.. all the Clans pivoted and went right for Lyran space and cut a corridor right through them...cause fk facing the Combine I want them alive after I mean Samurai or a Lyran...who would I want to see alive in the reborn Starleague...hrmm *note: We did obliterate Marik...cause Wobbies*)

[anonymous161]

If the this huge mess is all about clans then as the ip owners why didn't they just re invent them? Yet compare the pricing from is which is no longer that inferior vs the clans? I spent 240 for the first wave....now look at the is packages....a lot cheaper yet the clans are that over powering only in specific situations.

I mostly play is mechs now with their stupid quirks that makes them shoot lasers at half the duration but gives full damage where when I shoot a clan large laser it just irritates me as they were not originally that slow ever in any of the games.

pgi just isn't the right company for this franchise and honestly I dont care that no one else was willing to pick it up...there was a good reason for it. Now we are suffering for it.

Edited by Darth Bane001, 17 May 2015 - 08:59 AM.

[DaZur]

PGI Nerf Hammer = / = Pulling off a Band-aid

While heavy-handed, it actually more logical to hit the nerfs hard and deal with the spike of disenfranchisement than to tap-tap-tap the nerf to death over a protracted period and having to listen to the wails of indignation the span of that adjustment...

[Joseph Mallan]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

They wouldnt tho...It has only happened one time..and it took me convincing Comstar to become a Clan and shut down the IS HPG grid...while we both ravaged the Lyrans..and only the Lyrans.. all the Clans pivoted and went right for Lyran space and cut a corridor right through them...cause fk facing the Combine I want them alive after I mean Samurai or a Lyran...who would I want to see alive in the reborn Starleague...hrmm *note: We did obliterate Marik...cause Wobbies*)

I'm Sorry what?

Are you saying you flipped the ComGuard in MW:O to Clan? I didn't even know the ComGuard was a Unit here?

[CrushLibs]

DaZur, on 17 May 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

PGI Nerf Hammer = / = Pulling off a Band-aid

While heavy-handed, it actually more logical to hit the nerfs hard and deal with the spike of disenfranchisement than to tap-tap-tap the nerf to death over a protracted period and having to listen to the wails of indignation the span of that adjustment...

Quote

An old adage says that if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will leap out right away to escape the danger. However, if you put that same frog into a kettle that is filled with water that is mild and pleasant, and then you gradually increase the heat in the kettle until it starts boiling, the frog will not become aware of the threat until it is too late (cooked frog!)

[KuroNyra]

CrushLibs, on 17 May 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

[ArchAngelWC]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 May 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

I'm Sorry what?

Are you saying you flipped the ComGuard in MW:O to Clan? I didn't even know the ComGuard was a Unit here?

MW4 Planetary league....

That is the only time in the history of onine BT gaming the Clans have acutally done something that resembled winning...
Closests second was CGB under Tarheel in TFS where they got to Rasalhague before getting stalled and then things went very very south very very quickly because the 2 IS major houses we were in between got ceasefires with Marik/Davion and put their entire force on crushing us in the middle like jam

Davion also wrote salvage rights for clantech into their ceasefire...so guess what they came out with a little later in that campaign..

Edited by ArchAngelWC, 17 May 2015 - 09:09 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

MPBT3025 didnt die because EA decided they couldnt make money...it died because MS
MS also killed Mechcommander with MechCommander 2 (and the decision by the lead MS rep to basically tell the Head League Admin (me) that all of us could fk ourselves the game was broken buy it or dont get patches...once it was dumped by MS tho...instantly fixed and had massive additions depending on mod(s)

MW3/4 were pretty cool particularly if you were in the right league

Now thank god for NBT4's rebuild and additions to MW4 cause that sustained a lot of us for many many years..
for Me I also had Neveron...which made a fortune and would still be around if the Admins were not greedy and lazy at the same time....

The game can be commercially viable and successful and Battletech...it has existed and it could be this game lol

They just need to have the balls to actually go down that road...and us as a community go with them...(or get back on the bus if that is the case)

EA's game died because EA couldn't make a profit, they didn't have enough people in the closed beta, which was actually very VERY open, to cover the cost of development if every single one of us in it paid them $50 plus a monthly fee, which was the plan. MS wasn't the reason, lack of a playerbase was, no money to be made.

MC2 died because it was a horrible game, sorry to beak that to you, but it was. Great intentions, started out looking good, but like so many MS products at that time, horrible implementation. Not enough people bought it to make patching and spending more money on it by MS worthwhile, that's called a free market economy, not enough people buy a product, said product goes the way of the Dodo. You even state that yourself, if enough of you had purchased more, MS would fix it, but you didn't, so...

MW3 and 4 were single player games, they had multiplayer addons and the leagues, which were all totally player run and the rules for each and every league were decided by whomever ran them. They were also freely mixing Clan and IS tech, even the planetary leagues, like NBT4, which I was in, allowed this once you started getting salvage, remember? You might remember SRM from NBT4, we were House Steiner, and we were the reason the league reset the entire season 2 months into it, and we didn't even bother to use Clan tech after taking entire Clans out of the game. Then again, MW4 maps didn't really give the Clans much chance to use their better Tech, and we beat them both via combat and tactics on the interstellar map, hard to field Mechs to fight with when your planet is cut off and you didn't bother to put forces ANYWHERE but the front line planets..silly Clanners!

The online leagues did NOT make the MW titles, they were something that let us continue playing the games long after they should have been left behind, mainly because there were no other BTech titles for us to play, mainly because they just weren't commercially viable as online games. They did well as single player titles, sorta, since MW2 outsold all of them, so MW3 and 4 weren't really successes, they just weren't the massive failures that Kesmai's MPBT 3025 on GEnie was, Solaris MPBT was and EA's MPBT 3025 was. Even on the Zone, MW3 and MW4 just didn't have enough players for MS to even consider keeping them going via their Messenger service like they did other games, and that says a LOT since many of the games they kept alive were free games that no one paid MS for ever. Then again, once you bought MW3 or 4, you weren't usually giving any more money to MS either, so... Simply put, not enough people bought MW3 and MW4 combined to make them profitable enough for MS to support them long term, long term being more than a few years btw. MWO has already been around longer than MW3 was played, and it's fast approaching MW4's lifespan. And, unlike either of those, it's still making money, so PGI seems to be doing something right.

[TLBFestus]

I'd love to see this BUT;

- They do not have the numbers to form the separate queues that Clan only, IS only, and IS versus Clan would create.

- They have repeatedly said that they cannot create asymmetrical matches to balance superior clan mechs versus inferior IS mechs. I believe it has something to do with the Match Maker not being able to do the math, which to me is them simply saying, "We don't want to create a whole new match making algorithm cus it was hard last time".

[Yokaiko]

TLBFestus, on 17 May 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

- They have repeatedly said that they cannot create asymmetrical matches to balance superior clan mechs versus inferior IS mechs. I believe it has something to do with the Match Maker not being able to do the math, which to me is them simply saying, "We don't want to create a whole new match making algorithm cus it was hard last time".

They didn't have the numbers with only IS mechs to launch a game in under 10 minutes during US prime using 3/3/3/3 that is where the escape valves came from. 3/3/3/3 hardlocked lasted all of what two days before it was hot patched.

......there aren't close to enough clan players, and now there is going to be less.

[KuroNyra]

Yokaiko, on 17 May 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

......there aren't close to enough clan players, and now there is going to be less.

But beside that, Clans are OP and everybody and there mother want to play them.

[ArchAngelWC]

Yokaiko, on 17 May 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

They didn't have the numbers with only IS mechs to launch a game in under 10 minutes during US prime using 3/3/3/3 that is where the escape valves came from. 3/3/3/3 hardlocked lasted all of what two days before it was hot patched.

......there aren't close to enough clan players, and now there is going to be less.

It's just so amusing...and then watching people go "BT sucks that is why PGI is screwing it all up to appeal to COD'esque players" just hurts...

but yah I need to sleep as I need to earn the money I'm not spending on this game anymore lol

[Kristov Kerensky]

KuroNyra, on 17 May 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Not when the result are so low they would win barely enought to repair a part of there mech and win less than 50.000C-bill.





You seem to forget. We're in 3050, CW map is reset, we are at the start of the sort-ofwannabe-invasion that barely progress despite the OPness of the Clans.

There is NO repair and rearm nor will it be making a return, too many people in Closed Beta, supposedly us BTech diehards mainly, whined and complained about it so much that it was removed and it won't be coming back. So what exactly is the incentive to follow an enforced ******* rule about not focusing fire and only doing 1v1 when your OPPONENT has no such rules? Especially when ignoring those rules still allows you to win, you just don't win AS MUCH as you would if you followed them, and that's probably still going to be more than a loss would net you, since losing for a Clan Trueborn is a very harsh thing.

I don't forget the timeline, I also don't forget that 2 of the Invading Clans rarely offered Batchall to the Inner Sphere forces and they rarely, if ever, bothered with Zellbringen while fighting the Inner Sphere forces, who they considered less than dezgra, but you seem to forget that. And I don't forget that within the Clans who DID offer Batchall, Zellbringen was something that was not enforced when facing the Inner Sphere forces at any time, even Clan Wolf MechWarriors usually felt the Inner Sphere forces were not worth the honor of Zellbringen and rarely followed the standard Clan RoE while fighting them.

Zellbringen was something the Clans used with each other, not the Inner Sphere forces they ALL considered to be weak, worthless and totally without honor at the START of the Invasion. By 3051 Zellbringen wasn't something any Clan Warrior bothered with when facing Inner Sphere forces.

You need to actually learn what these things were in BTech lore and canon and exactly how they were used and ignored by the Clans at ALL times, not just during the Invasion. More than a few Clans felt that other Clans were never worthy of Zellbringen, other Clans had their OWN versions of it, and so on. It's not what you think it is, it never was.

[Soul Tribunal]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Just a simple request


Instead of adding quirks, ghost heat, etc etc etc yada yada yada

perhaps you could just you know....properly balance the game...


The entire thing in BT is the clans are technologically superior, they just are....

They are also tiny with a fraction of the planets of the smallest IS house, they cant produce nearly as many units as quickly as an IS house, and they don't have the economic abilities that an IS house does...

It's why Kurita could take such a schlacking from CGB/CSJ while fighting Davion and Steiner and the Rasal Rats and yet still field 8x as many units as a Clan


So how about you stop screwing up Battletech by trying to fix something that was never broken..and instead fix (read: create since you havent done it at all) an economy that allows the IS to be sufficient....and Clans only real hope being technology and player skill (yes I assume people who will choose Clan knowing they will be at a numerical/tonnage disadvantage every match might be more skilled)


How about instead of a random free for all where IS players can use Clan tech and Clan players can use IS tech...you have IS houses fight IS houses for Cbills and Clans fight Clans for Honour points (as why would a clanner want currency if they were not a Diamond Shark), or create a solaris style ladder arena (and call it Starlance lol)


Just stop erasing the very dynamic that makes planetary Clan v IS a real contest..or more aptly stop oversimplifying it for people who dont care about Battletech damnit..

Interestingly enough they are balancing the game. And its really the player base that is responsible for the nerfs (to a degree at least).
You see, PGI (and almost every other game developer in existance) does not balance the game based on what the read here. They balance based off of statistics. Data that the player base has no access to. As a result because more players run Mad Cats, and Ryokens (sorry, I'm an IS player at heart) they have more statistical data from those chassis. That results in a net change or adjustment when they run the numbers.

Its probably why the Huggin for instance, has not yet been hit with the bat.
While the Chassis is indeed powerful for what it can do, it probably statistically has only 1 out of 5 good matches because of how Niche it is. And as a result , it does not attract enough notice.

So, in a round about way, they are balancing the game and doing it on an age old metric that we do not have access to.
It might not make sense, but its an industry standard and has been for sometime.

-ST

[Yokaiko]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 May 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

There is NO repair and rearm nor will it be making a return, too many people in Closed Beta, supposedly us BTech diehards mainly, whined and complained about it so much that it was removed and it won't be coming back. So what exactly is the incentive to follow an enforced ******* rule about not focusing fire and only doing 1v1 when your OPPONENT has no such rules? Especially when ignoring those rules still allows you to win, you just don't win AS MUCH as you would if you followed them, and that's probably still going to be more than a loss would net you, since losing for a Clan Trueborn is a very harsh thing.

I don't forget the timeline, I also don't forget that 2 of the Invading Clans rarely offered Batchall to the Inner Sphere forces and they rarely, if ever, bothered with Zellbringen while fighting the Inner Sphere forces, who they considered less than dezgra, but you seem to forget that. And I don't forget that within the Clans who DID offer Batchall, Zellbringen was something that was not enforced when facing the Inner Sphere forces at any time, even Clan Wolf MechWarriors usually felt the Inner Sphere forces were not worth the honor of Zellbringen and rarely followed the standard Clan RoE while fighting them.

Zellbringen was something the Clans used with each other, not the Inner Sphere forces they ALL considered to be weak, worthless and totally without honor at the START of the Invasion. By 3051 Zellbringen wasn't something any Clan Warrior bothered with when facing Inner Sphere forces.

You need to actually learn what these things were in BTech lore and canon and exactly how they were used and ignored by the Clans at ALL times, not just during the Invasion. More than a few Clans felt that other Clans were never worthy of Zellbringen, other Clans had their OWN versions of it, and so on. It's not what you think it is, it never was.

I loved R/R I was sitting on hunderds of mil, remember you map spend 2-3 mil fixing and rearming, but you could easily win 2.5 mil in a game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 May 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

There is NO repair and rearm nor will it be making a return, too many people in Closed Beta, supposedly us BTech diehards mainly, whined and complained about it so much that it was removed and it won't be coming back. So what exactly is the incentive to follow an enforced ******* rule about not focusing fire and only doing 1v1 when your OPPONENT has no such rules? Especially when ignoring those rules still allows you to win, you just don't win AS MUCH as you would if you followed them, and that's probably still going to be more than a loss would net you, since losing for a Clan Trueborn is a very harsh thing.

I don't forget the timeline, I also don't forget that 2 of the Invading Clans rarely offered Batchall to the Inner Sphere forces and they rarely, if ever, bothered with Zellbringen while fighting the Inner Sphere forces, who they considered less than dezgra, but you seem to forget that. And I don't forget that within the Clans who DID offer Batchall, Zellbringen was something that was not enforced when facing the Inner Sphere forces at any time, even Clan Wolf MechWarriors usually felt the Inner Sphere forces were not worth the honor of Zellbringen and rarely followed the standard Clan RoE while fighting them.

Zellbringen was something the Clans used with each other, not the Inner Sphere forces they ALL considered to be weak, worthless and totally without honor at the START of the Invasion. By 3051 Zellbringen wasn't something any Clan Warrior bothered with when facing Inner Sphere forces.

You need to actually learn what these things were in BTech lore and canon and exactly how they were used and ignored by the Clans at ALL times, not just during the Invasion. More than a few Clans felt that other Clans were never worthy of Zellbringen, other Clans had their OWN versions of it, and so on. It's not what you think it is, it never was.

Clans used Zellbrigen until they found that the Inner Sphere did not recognize the rules and refused to abide by them. Clan Jade Falcon was the last Clan to modify their terms of engagement when it came to fighting honorably.

[Raggedyman]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

The entire thing in BT is the clans are technologically superior, they just are....

They are also tiny with a fraction of the planets of the smallest IS house, they cant produce nearly as many units as quickly as an IS house, and they don't have the economic abilities that an IS house does...

It's why Kurita could take such a schlacking from CGB/CSJ while fighting Davion and Steiner and the Rasal Rats and yet still field 8x as many units as a Clan

Whatwhatwhat.... you mean like 12 v 10 / 3 lances vs 2 stars?
MADNESS!! There is no grounding in the lore for that, other than all the bits that are in it.

[Moldur]

8v12 CW

superior clantech

regular queue clan mechs behave as they currently do.

[Vlaitor]

Moldur, on 17 May 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

8v12 CW

superior clantech

regular queue clan mechs behave as they currently do.

That's not a bad idea at all.

I don't understand the people who want to apply the lore so much at the detriment of player base. Want to be alone and let PGI die in your fantasy world. Be my guest.