154 replies to this topic

[ArchAngelWC]

xe N on, on 17 May 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

It's not simply about player types or player base. It's about the capacities and abilities of the developers, too. With the small staff PGI could never develop a highly complex game. I really don't want to know how many developers working on Star Citizen, that got a gigantic amount of money from kickstarter. And even they are already much behind their original time planning.

Umm Starlance was built by a guy who funded it by selling coke....and the Admins...well...I was 13 and Pothead who happened to love BT soo...

I think they can do better..maybe..perhaps...It is feasible

[Yokaiko]

xe N on, on 17 May 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

It's not simply about player types or player base. It's about the capacities and abilities of the developers, too. With the small staff PGI could never develop a highly complex game. I really don't want to know how many developers working on Star Citizen, that got a gigantic amount of money from kickstarter. And even they are already much behind their original time planning.

The scope of SC is exponentially larger than MWO, which I may add they have already on the street, MWO is basically arena commander alone.

[xe N on]

Yokaiko, on 17 May 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

The scope of SC is exponentially larger than MWO, which I may add they have already on the street, MWO is basically arena commander alone.

Yeah, of course the scope is larger. But a similar scope would be necessary to fill CW with depth and establish a Clan vs. IS balance according to the Battletech universe.

Edited by xe N on, 17 May 2015 - 07:59 AM.

[Vlaitor]

To keep the game accessible and fun you need to keep the quirks and balance the IS and Clan Mechs. The clan's are already way more expensive.
The lore cannot be placed in a multiplayer game. The CW is already a good step at mixing both the fun and the lore.
People seem to misunderstand that if the game because very specific about the lore and only a fraction could play the clans it will make the fan base smaller. Making MWO less popular and eventually making PGI lose money.

The game is fine at this stage. I would complain more about performance and the total lack of response from the environment.

[xe N on]

Vlaitor, on 17 May 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

The CW is already a good step at mixing both the fun and the lore.

CW, lore and fun in one sentence makes me feel intensive pain.

Edited by xe N on, 17 May 2015 - 07:58 AM.

[MechaBattler]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Just a simple request


Instead of adding quirks, ghost heat, etc etc etc yada yada yada

perhaps you could just you know....properly balance the game...


The entire thing in BT is the clans are technologically superior, they just are....

They are also tiny with a fraction of the planets of the smallest IS house, they cant produce nearly as many units as quickly as an IS house, and they don't have the economic abilities that an IS house does...

It's why Kurita could take such a schlacking from CGB/CSJ while fighting Davion and Steiner and the Rasal Rats and yet still field 8x as many units as a Clan


So how about you stop screwing up Battletech by trying to fix something that was never broken..and instead fix (read: create since you havent done it at all) an economy that allows the IS to be sufficient....and Clans only real hope being technology and player skill (yes I assume people who will choose Clan knowing they will be at a numerical/tonnage disadvantage every match might be more skilled)


How about instead of a random free for all where IS players can use Clan tech and Clan players can use IS tech...you have IS houses fight IS houses for Cbills and Clans fight Clans for Honour points (as why would a clanner want currency if they were not a Diamond Shark), or create a solaris style ladder arena (and call it Starlance lol)


Just stop erasing the very dynamic that makes planetary Clan v IS a real contest..or more aptly stop oversimplifying it for people who dont care about Battletech damnit..

First of all. It's not balance if you're playing against people with better units than you. It's great and fun in a table top strategy game where each side is controlled by an individual player. Not so much in an FPS where each unit is a person. Very few people want to be cannon fodder so that people can have their dream of Clan superiority. Freakin space nazees

Second. If you make the Clans directly better. The majority of players will flock to the Clans or stop playing. Because suddenly they have to be cannon fodder to the Clans. Imagine how hard it is right now for pugs. Then take your idea. That multiplies the difficulty a hundred fold.

I believe there's a quote from the makes of BT saying that they regretted making the Clans so much stronger. Because it obsoleted a lot of old content. Thankfully PGI doesn't want to make old mechs irrelevant. Not to mention turn the game into a pay to win nightmare.

Edit: Almost forgot. That is not a simple request.

Edited by MechaBattler, 17 May 2015 - 08:00 AM.

[Vlaitor]

xe N on, on 17 May 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

CW, lore and fun in one sentence makes me feel intensive pain.

For me, if we could remove the lore altogether it would be way better.

[xe N on]

MechaBattler, on 17 May 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

Second. If you make the Clans directly better. The majority of players will flock to the Clans or stop playing. Because suddenly they have to be cannon fodder to the Clans. Imagine how hard it is right now for pugs. Then take your idea. That multiplies the difficulty a hundred fold.

Nope. See my post. Clan mechs can be better, but this could be balanced by special features.

Or, to show my view point from the MMORPG genre: A summoning class itself without it's minion is always weaker then a pure caster. Nevertheless, by summoning AI minions, it might even prove stronger.

IS = summoner (no, not the mech!)
Clan = pure caster

Edited by xe N on, 17 May 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Lexx]

ArchAngelWC, on 17 May 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

acutally I go remove all quirks, remove ghost heat, and return clan tech to clan tech as it was suppose to be...

then either make it so you need to earn Honour Points (which makes more sense for Clans) to requisition equipment from the Clan (and it should be limited and based on production) (ie: members of your clan can choose to be greedy and only focus on their mechs and their hanger...or they can donate that HP to the clan and potentially build a factory/research of X weapon or X chassis type thus giving your clan either access to it....or increased production of it..
(which would have the bonus effect of Clans/Houses becoming "families" as otherwise..everyone dies horrible deaths in the long run ala Fire Mandrill)

same thing for the IS
and Yes I would limited production to mechs that were actually produced by that House/Clan (cause a Jade Falcon running a Kodiak cause they can is just wrong...and so is a Davion running a Jenner-K)

If they returned clantech to how it's "supposed to be" the only way to balance the game would be to make it 5 vs. 12.

All your idea would do is make people who play the game a lot super OP while making all casual clan players quit because they can't buy anything.

[KuroNyra]

Torgun, on 17 May 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Uhh that's because we actually don't have vastly superior Clan mechs now. Are you even following what we're discussing here?

And ingame, there is still much more IS players than than Clan Player, despite the claim that Clans are OP yadidoo-yadida.

So:
People think everybody will be going Clans if they are OP. Clans here are nerfed BUUT there is still claim that they are largely OP compared to the IS mech... Yeeeeeet, there is STILL more IS players than Clans players.

[ArchAngelWC]

xe N on, on 17 May 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Yeah, of course the scope is larger. But a similar scope would be necessary to fill CW with depth and establish a Clan vs. IS balance according to the Battletech universe.

umm not really...as evidenced by every previous planetary...we managed to do this in a way that people loved without making it too crazy...
PGI could do thusly and would in turn give us a longterm viable game...much like Star Citizen hopefully (tho I do find it amusing they are pulling PGI's "That was our position at the time" thing occasionally)

The only part that I could realistically see people ******** bricks over....

Resets...
Let say you do what we called a full planetary cycle...

3-4 Succession Wars (depending on the Clanners, and whether Davion/Marik/Cappelan's feel generous as just because the Clans invade doesnt mean that their own wars stop..)

Clan Invasion can only last so long before either they show momentum and have a shot at Terra..or they stall (and then you give them some time for either the IS offensive..or the Clan offensive if neither happens Comstar *******...)

Now after that..or during that time one of 2 things happens...the IS houses are smart and go "I have a Templar...and He has a Fafnir....Zellbrigen that Clanner" or ....

The IS eating or being eaten after they understand the Clans what it is they are truely facing technology wise (and have several wait...this **** was just lying around and we never looked for it.....DAMNIT moments possibly depending if we want to do Brian Caches
*these should be what the clanners are basically fighting over while the IS is doing succesion wars..that and basically to figure out which Clans get to invade (if they want..)*

eventually things apex....the end is nigh for someone and much wooting is heard by all (except Jade Falcons who produce a far less sexy sound)

and then we do it all over again and see how different it is...some people move factions some merc units are sundered and reformed or yada yada..Clans rise and fall in the Pentagon worlds without the IS ever knowing till we invade...the IS fights its wars and the technology progresses due to those wars without the Clans knowing...Fun Fun..aka Planetary Campaign

Edited by ArchAngelWC, 17 May 2015 - 08:19 AM.

[xe N on]

Lexx, on 17 May 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

If they returned clantech to how it's "supposed to be" the only way to balance the game would be to make it 5 vs. 12.

No, see my post.

You can have 12 vs. 12 or 8 vs. 8 PLAYERS. Nevertheless, the IS would be superior in numbers. How can that work! Miracle! AI controlles bots. See Titanfall.

It would be like 30 IS units, 12 from it directly player controlled vs. 12 Clan units, all player controlled.

That would also result in a complete different play style. While as IS the player lead a unit of vehicles or even aircrafts the clan would be more the solo combatants. Much like in lore.

You could have even an IS minigame where you train and skill your AI pilots.

So much potential ... but unfortunately wasted.

Edited by xe N on, 17 May 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[Pjwned]

How about instead of not being productive by suggesting highly subjective, extremely vague "fixes" because BLUH BLUH MUH LASER VOMIT and suggesting that PGI completely violate their entire philosophy on Clans from the start...

Well, I don't know what you'd do instead, but just do something else.

[MechaBattler]

xe N on, on 17 May 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

Nope. See my post. Clan mechs can be better, but this could be balanced by special features.

Or, to show my view point from the MMORPG genre: A summoning class itself without it's minion is always weaker then a pure caster. Nevertheless, by summoning AI minions, it might even prove stronger.

IS = summoner (no, not the mech!)
Clan = pure caster

That's not a simple fix. And even if they could manage to add controlled AI. It wouldn't be as good as a player. Probably end up with half of them crashing into each other due to pathing issues. And the other half becoming stuck on pebbles.

Let's also not forget that right now 12v12 is what the game is capable of. If you want to give the IS more numbers in the form of bots. I really doubt they can make it work without killing the frames in game.

I think this is idea is infinitely more work than balancing the game.

[Torgun]

KuroNyra, on 17 May 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

And ingame, there is still much more IS players than than Clan Player, despite the claim that Clans are OP yadidoo-yadida.

So:
People think everybody will be going Clans if they are OP. Clans here are nerfed BUUT there is still claim that they are largely OP compared to the IS mech... Yeeeeeet, there is STILL more IS players than Clans players.

We're talking about some percentages here and there and you can't neglect the cost of clans though as it costs a lot to get all variants with hardwired XL engines. But if you're going to put clans being twice as good as IS mechs? Sure as heck no one but the most obsessed roleplayers are going to play for IS.

[xe N on]

MechaBattler, on 17 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

That's not a simple fix.

I never talked about a simple fix. I talked about what changes would be necessary to introduce Battletech TT like tech balance between Clan and IS without having 99% clan players and 1% IS players.

In fact, In the current setting I see clan tech nerfs as inevitable.

Edited by xe N on, 17 May 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[InspectorG]

Triordinant, on 17 May 2015 - 06:42 AM, said:

Don't forget the second part of BT canon: Clan technological superiority is balanced by Inner Sphere numerical superiority. A Clan Star (5 'mechs) with original unnerfed 'mechs would be met by an IS Company (12 'mechs) in battle.

12 IS mechs...with STOCK loadouts. No DHS/Endo taxes.

I do not think MWO can be balanced until its final version is released and has been played(tested?) long enough to see where balance is needed. Until then its change + power creep with nerf to keep it interesting.(i can accept this)

[Pjwned]

xe N on, on 17 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

I never talked about a simple fix. I talked about what changes would be necessary to introduce Battletech TT like tech balance between Clan and IS without having 99% clan players and 1% IS players.

In fact, In the current setting I see clan tech nerfs as inevitable.

It's not a good fix either.

[Vlaitor]

Even right now the Clans are always superiors to IS if you go tons to tons.
If you want to balance things out.
CW: 12is vs 10clans.
QuickMatch: 4 Clans 240 tons max per team.

[Gyrok]

Torgun, on 17 May 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Uhh that's because we actually don't have vastly superior Clan mechs now. Are you even following what we're discussing here?

Yes...in fact. The conversation has turned odd