309 replies to this topic

[Neutron IX]

Also, apologies if that sounds grumpier than it's intended.

[N0MAD]

Rip Snorgan, on 20 May 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Sometimes I tell my kids things like, "no, you can't go play with your friends today", or "yes, you can come to the store with me"...but...then something happens, like, say their dance classes get canceled for that night, or maybe my wife needs to take them to get new shoes instead, so, I "change my mind".

Does this mean I lied?

If you would of said "You can NEVER play with your friend again", and then you couldnt go to practise, then said "you can go to play with your friend, cause it suits me".
Is the original statement a lie?

Edited by N0MAD, 20 May 2015 - 07:09 PM.

[UberStuka]

=don't even know why this is up for debate. they told us it was a 1 time deal and that's the way it should remain. I don't see gold timberwolves and founders going back on sale.

[Neutron IX]

N0MAD, on 20 May 2015 - 07:01 PM, said:

I will NEVER post in this forum again.

whoops, i didnt lie, it was well i changed my mind.

I've known both David Schwimmer AND Frankie Goes to Hollywood to have that effect on people.

But in all honestly, I hadn't intended to drive you away sir, and am more than happy to agree to disagree. I'll admit a mite of frustration at what I view as the insanity that grips these forums from time to time (which is what motivated the post you quoted), but can honestly say that if the "NO" vote takes it, which it appears will be the case, I'll be fine with it.

My point was simply, all of sudden instead of citing our reasons for wanting or not wanting a vote, I see everyone and their mother becoming legal experts and citing some vague "laws" of which PGI would be in violation of, and as someone who works retail, and deals in limited edition items all the time, as well as dealing with exported and virtual content on a regular basis, I've personally never encountered such laws. So actually my final bit there was an honest appeal.

I would LOVE for someone to point us all to the laws that PGI would be violating by re-releasing the Phoenix pack...even exactly as originally released.

As for your post, yes, fortunately that is how changing your mind works. Fortunately we get to do that as humans from time to time, because the first time I tasted a beer it was a Natural Light, and I swore I would NEVER drink a beer again.

[Neutron IX]

N0MAD, on 20 May 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

If you would of said "You can NEVER play with your friend again", and then you couldnt go to practise, then said "you can go to play with your friend, cause it suits me".
Is the original statement a lie?

Is it a lie, or a rushed decision made without all the best information? If you are honestly saying that you have never once in your life made a statement like, "I'm never going to watch a movie with THAT guy in it again", or "I'm never going to take THAT road during rush hour again", or "I'm never going to make THAT mistake again", and not once had anything along those lines prove to be inaccurate because you encountered new information or circumstances, well, I congratulate you on an incredibly black and white life, far simpler than most experience.

If I say, on the other hand, "You can NEVER play with your friends again" knowing full well in the back of my mind that they can, yes, that's a lie. At the time that PGI stated this about the Phoenix packs, did they think behind closed doors "Muwahahahaha! Except that internally we all know THAT'S untrue, right everyone?! *evil laugh*", or do you think they probably thought that would be the case, but then encountered new information and circumstances?

Anyhow, interesting stuff all around.

Cheers!

-Rip

[Cosmocat]

I didn't buy this package, but I hope they don't make it for sale again. Pooh-poohing people who bought the package because they wanted to be special snowflakes is pretty wrong headed and weird. If that's why they bought it, that's their business, and they have every right to expect that their mechs will remain exclusive because that is what they were assured by PGI.

And hey, maybe many Phoenix pack owners are okay with this package being resold, but how many need to be upset for this to not be alright? Let's say, hypothetically, that only 25% of Phoenix pack owners are against reselling this package. Since that would mean most people are alright with reselling, then is it alright to forge ahead and resell? I think we should be hesitant to arrive at the conclusion that it's okay to drop a promise because the people who would be most bothered by it are in the minority.

Finally, I think it's important for PGI to maintain integrity. When I buy a product, I expect to be able to trust the information that I'm being given about it. I don't think that this being a digital product changes the nature of exclusivity or the expectation that was given to people who bought it. It would be very good not to set a precedent for old sales promises to be simply retconned, both for PGI and for the end users who need to be able to trust what they are being told when deciding whether to buy something.

[Alex Morgaine]

Thunder Child, on 18 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Fair enough. If PGI really wanted to go crazy with the money making, they could do Skins like in those MOBA games. Hey look, this Atlas is Classy. Yours for only 20 bucks!

But even if they just made small adjustments. Look at the AS7-S Loyalty skin. Huge amount of Urbies sold so people could get that (though I wish I could sell my duplicate Loyalty mechs....)

So my vote is not to just put the Phoenix pack on Sale, but to sell alternate designs, like Different Cent Shields, or Stylised Cannon Mounts for Hunchies. LONG BARRELED ACs FOR JAGERS!!!. Etc.

IIRC, back in CB days the original plan was to make variable geometry parts, like the founder atlas's head and cents shield arm for mc to bling up mechs. I wonder why they abandoned that idea...

[Alex Morgaine]

JC Daxion, on 19 May 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

and just FYI, companies do this all the time.. sell something for a limited time, then a year or two, or three later and do it again.. a prime example is the Mc donalds Mc rib.. are you pissed off when you go buy one of those, and then they are gone... and wow.. look its 2 years later and its the limited edition mc rib! there is zero difference here.....

The Disney vault. Nuff said. Buy all the movies again! This might be the last time they leave the vault ever... well until next year or two, or the next level if media resolution, our they need some green, or just for !$*% and giggles... but it's still possibly the last time ever!

[paladin yst]

Whats the verdict, did the poll pass or what?

[ShinVector]

paladin yst, on 27 May 2015 - 02:47 AM, said:

Whats the verdict, did the poll pass or what?

https://mwomercs.com/phoenix-poll

[Dino Might]

On our way to K-Town.

[Alan Davion]

HellzOwn, on 20 May 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

If we can't get anything, neither should PGI.

No offense, but this is a perfect example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Original Phoenix owners may well have gotten something if they'd been re-opened for sale, but now we'll not have the chance to find out.

[Joseph Mallan]

ShinVector, on 27 May 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

https://mwomercs.com/phoenix-poll

Now back to the regularly scheduled whining.

[Joseph Mallan]

kesmai, on 18 May 2015 - 03:47 AM, said:

Nope Joseph. A limited time offer is just that: limited. Don't use sophism on things that are obvious.
edit: That is the reason why pgi asks the phoenix buyers. They want to assure there's no legal trouble with the fact the sale was 'limited time' only.

If It's on sale for two months every year... Its a limited time sale.

Now the word you mean to use is Exclusive. As Jobe pointed out the camo was supposed to be exclusive. BUt as we have that pesky ToS which says PGI can change whatever they want when ever they want, I just ignore words like Exclusive and never. It keeps my blood pressure manageable and me out of prison!

[Hillslam]

Technically the ToS allows them to change content in game, not violate terms of a sale contract. They are two de-coupled things and this is well established in commerce. See your Mobile Phone Bill for example. They could change the content once in game but not violate a sale contract. So they were bound to the words "one-time". Not that would stop any company from trying a weasel move to get out of a contract. People/corps do it all the time.

And it was a weasel move of them to try to wiggle out around it. The No vote was right vote. Contracts matter. Even if some people have situational ethics or are so addicted to their robot crack they'll put their ethics aside for the promise of some more game time. Thank goodness the majority of voters aren't so mercurial, even given the amount of "you're greedy" mudslinging used against them.

But this is old news, just clarifying the ToS does not apply to terms of sale.

also - nanner nanner boo boo to apnu and the rest of the insulting Yes vote "you're greedy" campaigners. What happened, that's called backfiring. Fail boat ahoy. Next time insult less and listen more.

Edited by Hillslam, 27 May 2015 - 05:16 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

I vote no. Limited time only or exclusive should mean something.

Or open everything. I want the PC Gamer colors

[Joseph Mallan]

Hillslam, on 27 May 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

Technically the ToS allows them to change content in game, not violate terms of a sale contract. They are two de-coupled things and this is well established in commerce. See your Mobile Phone Bill for example. They could change the content once in game but not violate a sale contract. So they were bound to the words "one-time". Not that would stop any company from trying a weasel move to get out of a contract. People/corps do it all the time.

And it was a weasel move of them to try to wiggle out around it. The No vote was right vote. Contracts matter. Even if some people have situational ethics or are so addicted to their robot crack they'll put their ethics aside for the promise of some more game time. Thank goodness the majority of voters aren't so mercurial, even given the amount of "you're greedy" mudslinging used against them.

But this is old news, just clarifying the ToS does not apply to terms of sale.

also - nanner nanner boo boo to apnu and the rest of the insulting Yes vote "you're greedy" campaigners. What happened, that's called backfiring. Fail boat ahoy. Next time insult less and listen more.

The sale is for things in the game, Products in the game. I don't see the hair you seem to be splitting.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 May 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

I vote no. Limited time only or exclusive should mean something.

Or open everything. I want the PC Gamer colors

Those are some sweet colors. Best red and black available. They should go on sale to everyone now.

[Nightmare1]

@OP: Nobody cares...




Also, Phoenix Pack II can still happen. This poll was solely about re-releasing Pack I.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nightmare1, on 27 May 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

@OP: Nobody cares...




Also, Phoenix Pack II can still happen. This poll was solely about re-releasing Pack I.

You ever think about a career in Law/Politics? You are good at this!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 May 2015 - 06:03 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

You ever think about a career in Law/Politics? You are good at this!

Originally, I was actually looking at that. Then I decided that lawyers and politicians are societal leaches and opted to go the engineering route instead, lol.

Personally speaking, I am very much a literalist and take things at face value without seeking hidden meanings. Thus, when PGI says that the poll is about re-offering the Phoenix Pack, I take it as a re-release of the initial pack, irrespective of any following packs. I think it would be a great idea if a Phoenix II Pack was released with different variants, geometries, rewards, etc. There are ways for PGI to do it without angering original pack owners. Shoot, I'd probably buy a Phoenix II Pack myself!