309 replies to this topic

[Ridir Semii]

I find it funny that all PGI has to do to re-release this pack WITHOUT a poll or asking anything of you is simple, call it the fluffy bunny pack, and put ( B ) for bunny after the mech name and guess what? you realize the poll is pointless in the first place

Edited by Uminix, 27 May 2015 - 07:02 AM.

[Zeusus]

Uminix, on 27 May 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

I find it funny that all PGI has to do to re-release this pack WITHOUT a poll or asking anything of you is simple, call it the fluffy bunny pack, and put ( B ) for bunny after the mech name and guess what? you realize the poll is pointless in the first place

Actually I think the poll did exactly what PGI wanted. Either they weren't planning to re-release and figured the poll would go the no way, so they started it up so they can point at the poll and say 'hey they said no, don't blame me!'.

Or they did this to determine what the public thought and to see how accepting the community would be for re-release.

As you said they could re-release regardless of how the polls go, but that could cost them a lot of long term sales while only getting them a small amount in the short term.

[stjobe]

Uminix, on 27 May 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

I find it funny that all PGI has to do to re-release this pack WITHOUT a poll or asking anything of you is simple, call it the fluffy bunny pack, and put ( B ) for bunny after the mech name and guess what? you realize the poll is pointless in the first place

They would have to remove the (P) variants; their custom geometry was one of the things that was said to be "never again available for purchase".

So no, it's not just as easy as releasing it under a different name.

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

The sale is for things in the game, Products in the game. I don't see the hair you seem to be splitting.

Only because you don't want to see it.

The content that was sold to us could be changed. They could alter the Mechs we bought, or the colors, or the camo pattern, etc.

The terms of the sales contract cannot be changed. Exclusive, never sold again, etc.

They can alter the Phoenix (P) Mechs if they want, but they cannot sell them again. And that's according to their own rules, as well as state and federal law. (I'm not Canadian, but I assume that Canada's laws are similar.) You can't change a contract after it has been executed without mutual consent.

[Alan Davion]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Only because you don't want to see it.

The content that was sold to us could be changed. They could alter the Mechs we bought, or the colors, or the camo pattern, etc.

The terms of the sales contract cannot be changed. Exclusive, never sold again, etc.

They can alter the Phoenix (P) Mechs if they want, but they cannot sell them again. And that's according to their own rules, as well as state and federal law. (I'm not Canadian, but I assume that Canada's laws are similar.) You can't change a contract after it has been executed without mutual consent.

You know, I'm surprised someone hasn't tried saying that if the Phoenix mechs were 'never to be sold again' that they therefore shouldn't be sold in the game itself.

[AlexEss]

I honestly do not see why someone would care... It holds no value at all.

But on the flip-side i do not care the other way either... None ofr the mechs are special enough to warrant my getting all knotted. I care more about the reduced price for tej bundle than the fancy skins. So i´d gladly take a "de-feathered" Phoenix pack that just have the regular mechs and a free camo token to fill the gap. Heck make the (p) a (c) for added value.


Buuuut. If they wanted to try and get out of this they cvould just say the "never again" was a IGP idea. Actually i think that was the idea of the poll. To see if they could re-neg that rather daft idea.

[Zeusus]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

They can alter the Phoenix (P) Mechs if they want, but they cannot sell them again. And that's according to their own rules, as well as state and federal law. (I'm not Canadian, but I assume that Canada's laws are similar.) You can't change a contract after it has been executed without mutual consent.

Am Canadian, can confirm.

Alan Davion, on 27 May 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

You know, I'm surprised someone hasn't tried saying that if the Phoenix mechs were 'never to be sold again' that they therefore shouldn't be sold in the game itself.

They aren't sold in the game so why would anyone say this? You can buy non phoneix versions of the varients which is completely different and OK according to sales terms. If they start selling (P) in game we can circle back then.

[Alan Davion]

AlexEss, on 27 May 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

I honestly do not see why someone would care... It holds no value at all.

But on the flip-side i do not care the other way either... None ofr the mechs are special enough to warrant my getting all knotted. I care more about the reduced price for tej bundle than the fancy skins. So i´d gladly take a "de-feathered" Phoenix pack that just have the regular mechs and a free camo token to fill the gap. Heck make the (p) a (c) for added value.

Buuuut. If they wanted to try and get out of this they cvould just say the "never again" was a IGP idea. Actually i think that was the idea of the poll. To see if they could re-neg that rather daft idea.

That's what I and a lot of other people have been saying, but many other people seem to have it in their heads that now that PGI is on it's own, they should be stuck with IGPs garbage?

Half of all the threads I ever see here on these forums are complaints about PGI's mistakes, never once does someone say it was IGP's fault, even though at the time, they were calling the shots.

The TBR/SCR being the most recent and seemingly most venomous. I say this because of several threads in which I've seen people saying that they've demanded refunds on their Clan Wave 3 purchase.

And now, when PGI actually tries to fix one of their major mistakes outside the game, suddenly people are saying "No, you can't do this." Where the hell were these people back when the real mistakes were being made?

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 27 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Only because you don't want to see it.

The content that was sold to us could be changed. They could alter the Mechs we bought, or the colors, or the camo pattern, etc.

The terms of the sales contract cannot be changed. Exclusive, never sold again, etc.

They can alter the Phoenix (P) Mechs if they want, but they cannot sell them again. And that's according to their own rules, as well as state and federal law. (I'm not Canadian, but I assume that Canada's laws are similar.) You can't change a contract after it has been executed without mutual consent.

See I gave my word. And that is more important that what is said to try and sell a product. If I think PGI cannot be trusted to make a good game I'll be out of here. Like I said I would. Words like "never" hold no meaning as never has ever happened.

I don't see a sale as contractually binding. Not in any sense of the word. Did you get a certificate of authenticity? Cause when I buy something that is Limited it usually has a certificate that proves it. So what number Phoenix pack were you sold? How may total was offered?

The Leviathan class warship Mini was LE, and was #22 of 120.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 May 2015 - 08:56 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nightmare1, on 27 May 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Originally, I was actually looking at that. Then I decided that lawyers and politicians are societal leaches and opted to go the engineering route instead, lol.

Personally speaking, I am very much a literalist and take things at face value without seeking hidden meanings. Thus, when PGI says that the poll is about re-offering the Phoenix Pack, I take it as a re-release of the initial pack, irrespective of any following packs. I think it would be a great idea if a Phoenix II Pack was released with different variants, geometries, rewards, etc. There are ways for PGI to do it without angering original pack owners. Shoot, I'd probably buy a Phoenix II Pack myself!

So instead of a Leach you chose the bane of manufacturing! LOL I am not a fan of Engineers being that I have to try to make what they design!

[TKSax]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

See I gave my word. And that is more important that what is said to try and sell a product. If I think PGI cannot be trusted to make a good game I'll be out of here. Like I said I would. Words like "never" hold no meaning as never has ever happened.

I don't see a sale as contractually binding. Not in any sense of the word. Did you get a certificate of authenticity? Cause when I buy something that is Limited it usually has a certificate that proves it. So what number Phoenix pack were you sold? How may total was offered?

Cool if you think Sales terms are changeable after the fact as I said to you in another thread, I am sure you will be fine with PGI change the Resistance pack price up to $180 and giving you 30 days to pay the difference or you account with be revoked/banned. I mean you gave your word right, so in the example you would owe the $60 since they can change anything related to mwo.

Edited by TKSax, 27 May 2015 - 09:17 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

TKSax, on 27 May 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

Cool if you think Sales terms are changeable after the fact as I said to you in another thread, I am sure you will be fine with PGI change the Resistance pack price up to $180 and giving you 30 days to pay the difference or you account with be revoked/banned. I mean you gave your word right, so in the example you would owe the $60 since they can change anything related to mwo.

Yes I am. And I will be banned.

However PGI is not changing the terms, you bought the Pack under. You bought what you bought. IF you believed it would never be sold again, that was your mistake.

If all contracts are binding My Ex Wife and I should be dead. After all the terms of our Marriage contract was til death do us part.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 May 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[TKSax]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Yes I am. And I will be banned.

See that is what you are missing, the scenario I just stated is Illegal in most states/countries , Sales terms are not changeable after the sale. Sometimes they can be changed with consent, which PGI was seeking in this case, and did not get it. Due to legal wrangling they may never be able to release the same Phoenix pack that was released before with out 100% consent. Which is why it was changed from every pack forward. I am sure someone will blame this on IGP, however the clan pack was supposedly released as a surprise to PGI, but with out the wording of "never to be released again" in the previous mech pack.

Edited by TKSax, 27 May 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

TKSax, on 27 May 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

See that is what you are missing, the scenario I just stated is Illegal in most states/countries , Sales terms are not changeable after the sale. Sometimes they can be changed with consent, which PGI was seeking in this case, and did not get it. Due to legal wrangling they may never be able to release the same Phoenix pack that was released before with out 100% consent. Which is why it was changed from every pack forward. I am sure someone will blame this on IGP, however the clan pack was supposedly released as a surprise to PGI, but with out the wording of "never to be released again" in the previous mech pack.

Never doesn't happen.

I said I accept they can change what they want, and that is the important part of any agreement. I keep MY word.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 May 2015 - 09:29 AM.

[Zolaz]

Phoenix 2 aka the "Comstar Package" with ECM Griffin, Cataphract along with a different variant Locust and Battlemaster as the +30% c-bill boosters. Comes with special Comstar paint job, warhorns and cockpit items. Sells like hotcakes.

[TKSax]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Never doesn't happen.

I said I accept they can change what they want, and that is the important part of any agreement. I keep MY word.

I swear you are just trolling threads, because I hate to say this no-one is this ignorant, or you are incredibly naive. I mean this is White-Knighting like a boss.
They cannot change things that are against the law, period, your word or not (which means nothing to them btw). Sales agreements are protected by all kinds of consumer protection laws, and they would lose any lawsuit try to use what is in the Terms of Service as protection against changing sales agreements post delivery.

I like how you can accept they can change (Aka keep your word by agreeing to the TOS) yet you think it is fine for PGI to break their word, or change a sales agreement after the fact.

Edited by TKSax, 27 May 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[Gattsus]

Maybe they could work around it. Sell a different set of variants with another camo, call it phoenix 1.5, throw a bone to the original buyers and call it a day. It's not exactly/technically the same package, they get money with little effort, as they wanted, people can purchase it/play it and we roll with it.

Edited by Gattsus, 27 May 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[TKSax]

Gattsus, on 27 May 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

Maybe they could work around it. Sell a different set of variants with another camo, call it phoenix 1.5, throw a bone to the original buyers and call it a day. It's not exactly/technically the same package, they get money with little effort, as they wanted, people can purchase it/play it and we roll with it.

Yes my guess would be that all of that would be fine.

[Alan Davion]

TKSax, on 27 May 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yes my guess would be that all of that would be fine.

Yeah, you see, the problem is, I'm willing to bet a lot of people, especially new people in the game, wanted the chance at the old camo/colors.

People are always bitching about PGI changing this or that, and now you want them to change something that doesn't need to be changed?

[Joseph Mallan]

TKSax, on 27 May 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

I swear you are just trolling threads, because I hate to say this no-one is this ignorant, or you are incredibly naive. They cannot change things that are against the law, period, your word or not (which means nothing to them btw). Sales agreements are protected by all kinds of consumer protection laws, and they would lose any lawsuit try to use what is in the Terms of Service as protection against changing sales agreements post delivery.

When the offeror, either verbally or by conduct, clearly demonstrates that the offer is no longer open, the offer is considered revoked when learned by the offeree. Where an offer is made to the general public, it can be revoked by furnishing public notice of its termination in the same way in which the offer was publicized.