163 replies to this topic

[Myke Pantera]

The good thing about the lowering of quirks is that i can finally play some Firestarters again. I've only been playing FS9-K and Ember from the bunch for quite some time, because doing decent damage/kills in the other variants was just not rewarding. Killing 4 ppl and dealing 940 damage in a Panther-9R on Terra Therma IS f***ing rewarding.

I may understand the complaint about the Clan mechs though. I don't play neither of them, but balance seemed to be quite ok as of recently. And energy weapons are the Clan's strength. Ballistics aren't all too good and brawling and LRMing are out of favour atm as well, that leaves clans with some very good Gauss platforms.

On the other hand, I'm not competitive, and not looking for exploits so i probably can't really judge balance. Panthers are awesome! ^^

[SmoothCriminal]

Green Mamba, on 18 May 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

Its a business model, no conspiracy is needed ..It does happen only factor is if PGI does it .You can judge the facts and the history of a company's actions

Agreed - the Timber and Crow always needed a nerf (I guess we'll see how balanced the changes are going to be tomorrow when it goes live), but the timing of the changes a month before the new mechs drop leaves a very bitter taste... They should 100% arrive with NO positive quirks (full disclosure, I have ordered the full pack but I would like for the above to be proven wrong) and possibly even some similar negative ones.

Personally I'd hope PGI tweaks the lesser clan mechs a bit more (either through quirks or hardpoint inflation) and looks at Clan ACs (reducing shell count or tightening the spread). Then we might have balance.

[LordBraxton]

The TW is getting hit by a nerf twig compared to mechs like the victor\highlander.

Nobody cried when the blacjack 1DC died... except me and a few others..

Really let's wait or the patch, and see what we can build wih our Twolves. Viable Twolves that ARENT laser vomit would be a nicething to see.

I love how OP ignores that the Twolf is gtting 0 ballistic\missile nerfs... clearly OP only uses lazzors.

Also as many have already stated... ahem...

Paulconomy®™

STOP WHINING AND BUY A CAULDRON BORN SILLY!

Edited by LordBraxton, 18 May 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"My precious OP got nerfed! I never saw it coming. And I can't play without my Precious OP, so I'm going to whine and rant on the forums until Evil Company gives me back my Precious! Watch while I hold my breath till I turn blue!" - Anonymous, Every Gaming Forum That Ever Existed.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Johnny Z, on 18 May 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:

Drama queens. Oh well its entertaining. I for one dont think the new quirks went far enough. I fully expect speed and agility nerfs some time.

It might be about as right as is. It's hard to say until we see how it plays out.

If it was me though, I would have done the nerfs a bit different maybe. I would have implemented agility nerfs to the TW and weapon nerfs to the SCR.

I also wouldn't have nerfed anything until I was ready to buff some other clan chassis or at least had a clan ballistic buff ready to roll out.

[MechB Kotare]

Its a neverending paradox.

PGI releases something that they dont screw up with at the beggining (when the new shinny mech is on sale). Slowly nerfs apprears along with new untouched mechs to buy.

Its neverending paradox, because all those Lame noobs, that think they are actually good, and when they keep dying to something it must be OP, all these cryer-casual-noobish-pieces of sheet will find something else to cry about in next week.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 May 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

But ALL THINGS MUST BE EQUALLY LAME.

I blame this current sorry state of affairs on the proliferation of these:




Instead of facing an existing challenge, recipients of these want things made easier for them. And so things just end up being a race to the bottom.

Nerf this. Nerf that. Nerf anything and everything that they cannot even bother to try to achieve.

[Mystere]

DarkMetalBlade, on 18 May 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

What I think this'll do is bring back the PPC/Gauss meta of the old. Of course, this is probably little more than speculation.

I've been practicing all weekend ... by killing first any Mechs I see tagged with a "(P)". <maniacal >

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 18 May 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

El Bandito, it isn't worth it.

They are so enraged that no matter what you or anyone says, the nerf is a travesty. We have the OP claiming the Timby is dead for pete sake. The over the top ridiculousness isn't going to stop no matter what anyone says otherwise.

If you aren't holding a pitchfork with them, they go crazy.

Who knows, maybe there is some truth to it. Maybe 3% here and 6% there will really add up. We won't really know till we play the game for a bit post patch. If it's too severe, it will be altered.

I just think the The Timbies are Dead!! And Ermergerrd...Nerfs!!! posts are serious overreacting at this point...and pretty funny.

While it can add up to a pretty ridiculous number, seems to me that only really happens if..... you insist on laserboating everything. It's certainly the easiest builds to play with. And no one in their right mind would argue Clan ACs don't need some love (which is supposedly coming, but should have been implemented first).

Truly to me the issue is...how tiny the changes to the STK-4N and FS9s are, compared to Clan Mechs. Only idiots and Homers still claim the TBR and SCR aren't OP. But Even with the stock pods, seems like they might be getting hit a little too hard. Laughable, that Russ's pet mechanic to fight this, GH has been so totally circumvented, that he has to go QuirkNerf Wild on stuff.

But they should have hit the Agility and maybe removed the Speed Tweak bonus from the chassis, instead of this. And then, possibly hit some individual pods, or not have the pods Quirks stack to begin with. (Aka, your bonus or nerf for the LT should not affect your weapons in the RA, and vice versa). Sadly, that would take time and effort, and thus.... won't happen.

[Mystere]

Novakaine, on 18 May 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Hey Clankers guess what, if you point your guns at a mech they still die.

It depends. If you overheat, you could also kill yourself. It wouldn't be so bad though it it were a 1 megaton or so explosion.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

While it can add up to a pretty ridiculous number, seems to me that only really happens if..... you insist on laserboating everything. It's certainly the easiest builds to play with. And no one in their right mind would argue Clan ACs don't need some love (which is supposedly coming, but should have been implemented first).

Truly to me the issue is...how tiny the changes to the STK-4N and FS9s are, compared to Clan Mechs. Only idiots and Homers still claim the TBR and SCR aren't OP. But Even with the stock pods, seems like they might be getting hit a little too hard. Laughable, that Russ's pet mechanic to fight this, GH has been so totally circumvented, that he has to go QuirkNerf Wild on stuff.

But they should have hit the Agility and maybe removed the Speed Tweak bonus from the chassis, instead of this. And then, possibly hit some individual pods, or not have the pods Quirks stack to begin with. (Aka, your bonus or nerf for the LT should not affect your weapons in the RA, and vice versa). Sadly, that would take time and effort, and thus.... won't happen.

I think we are kind of on the same page with this. I even said in another thread that this should have happened very close to a Clan A/C buff or a general Clan quirk pass. I also thought some agility nerfs might have been more appropriate for the TW.

I think there is still an overwhelming consensus that clan tech in general (especially energy) is just plain better and maybe that is why the nerf is light for IS mechs.

I still feel the response has been rather over dramatic though. Some sound as traumatized as a teenage girl hearing their favorite boy band broke up.

I'm just saying, let's see how things play out. Yes, numerically it can look bad if certain combos stack, but let's see how in plays out in game.

I do think an A/C buff to fall back on in the short term would have been nice though had the energy nerfs been s bit too severe.

[Mystere]

Mister Blastman, on 18 May 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

But why die... when you can win?

Psst! They died on the third day.

Edited by Mystere, 18 May 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Mystere]

MeiSooHaityu, on 18 May 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

I still feel the response has been rather over dramatic though. Some sound as traumatized as a teenage girl hearing their favorite boy band broke up.

But every change in MWO was caused by, and ended in, drama. So why will this one be any different?

High drama seems to be the only thing that spurs PGI into making changes. It would be nice though if it resulted in progress. But unfortunately, more often than not, it does not.

Edited by Mystere, 18 May 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Timberwolf and Stormcrow had it coming. They both can output more damage than their weight class should be able to. By comparison it takes an IS heavy to have the same firepower of a Stormcrow. That's not by any stretch of the imagination balance. Especially as they have longer range to boot. And while the weapons are hotter. Those two mechs can carry enough heatsinks to run at a heat efficiency equal to IS mechs. They're also agile and fast for their classes. : /

Now their laser vomit dps is lowered and their duration makes their high damage harder to use. Good!

[Gas Guzzler]

I don't think those mechs will be unusable guys, there are still some builds that will avoid the ridiculous duration increase. Looking at the Timber Wolf, I think you can do 2 x cLPLs with a Gauss with only 9% duration/cooldown, that isn't terrible. Or you could do 2 x cER PPCs and a Gauss with ninja sync skills to make up their velocity difference, and only suffer a 9% cooldown penalty. Or Gauss + SRMs would be a good brawler with poke potential. Even the Gauss 5 ER ML build if you don't use the shoulder is 15%, which translates to I believe a .1725 second duration difference? You can also strip a bunch of armor and run dual gauss with 5 tons of ammo. Its not ideal because you have to hack up the mech, but all that agility and JJ with dual gauss firepower? It is unreal while it lasts.

I'm not saying its awesome and I agree with it, but the sky isn't falling here. You are still super agile and can protect your CT very well, just have to be more selective about where to poke.

Edit: I will definitely be testing these out Tuesday night.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 May 2015 - 08:01 AM.

[YueFei]

DuoAngel, on 18 May 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

I got coughed laughing.
Okaaayy...
So, the only, nope, THE ONLY mech with the same dps out there is DWF with 6xCUAC5s. IRC their dps was 18.3 for DRG vs 18.5 for DWF. Any other mech has 9,5 dps max.
SO, what will you do against four DWFs in CW mode, when you barely can bring one?
But, OK. You cannot see it's OPness, your bad.

HBK-4SP has 15 DPS from its SRM6's. Throw in the 5 lasers and it has much higher burst damage (150 in a little over 5 seconds, 30 burst DPS).

I guess the only thing holding me back when I drive that thing is that I'm a derplord who drives his mech with a steering wheel.

There are probably other examples of robots with more than 9.5 DPS that you forgot about.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mystere, on 18 May 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

But every change in MWO was cause by, and ended in, drama. So why will this one be any different?

High drama seems to be the only thing that spurs PGI into making changes. It would be nice though if it resulted in progress. But unfortunately, more often than not, it does not.

I agree with the drama being the norm. This just seems like it was turned up to 11.

I'm not sure I agree on it creating change though. I think PGI is open to feedback...somewhat...but I'm pretty sure they balance off of their interpretation of data and sadly, sometimes off of their own whims.

I would like to think constructive posts do more than "That's it, you killed my TW, I quit!" Threads. Then again, how many replies does a good conversation thread get vs a drama queen one.

[Mister Blastman]

Mystere, on 18 May 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Psst! They died on the third day.

Yeah I never saw it. I know of the original story though and how the bulk of the people made it away to safety.

[Yosharian]

Alwrath, on 18 May 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

The Timberwolf, while an excellent mech, was balanced imo.

Timberwolf is balanced? Are you dense? What the **** is wrong with you?

[Gyrok]

MeiSooHaityu, on 18 May 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

For one, the effects of the nerf are probably a bit exqgerated. Let's see how things play out. The affects will be felt, but claiming a dirt nap for the Storm Crow and Timber Wolf is a bit over dramatic for the sake of trying to make a point.

Secondly, keeping 2 mechs very OP for the sake of Clan competitiveness in CW is not a good reason to keep them OP. Instead of getting angry about balancing overpowered chassis, you should be asking why a buff to other Clan mechs isn't happening at the same time (or at least right on its heels).

The Timber Wolf and Storm Crow did need to be adjusted. I highly doubt it has made those 2 mechs dead...hardly. Still, if you want more variety in CW for Clanners, push PGI for a broad clan quirk pass instead of asking for over powerful mechs to stay overpowered. Heck, ask for a good A/C ballistic pass while your at it.

The odds of PGI fixing anything Clan that is under powered are so astronomically small that a nerf to the 2 mechs we had that were competitive (read: not OP but competitive) is really the death of the Clans in CW at this point.

Mister Blastman, on 18 May 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

Yeah I never saw it. I know of the original story though and how the bulk of the people made it away to safety.

The losses for the Persians were also so heavy in comparison to the Greeks lost that it soured any taste Persian Emperor Xerxes had for trying to conquer Greece for quite some time.