94 replies to this topic

[Dauntless Blint]

I thought about cross tech penalties but meh I think it will only bring some mechs more in from the cold being able to better use weight/slots to firepower more efficiently

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 18 May 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

...Which is why Mixtech should simply never happen. Forcing each faction to stay technologically isolated makes the balancing process WAY easier because we can use both direct and less direct/sneaky methods of evening things out. But let them combine, and you'll be able to grab the best from one side and the best from the other, while bypassing the weaknesses of both.

Problem is that as we go further into the timeline Mixed Tech is a reality. So I'd suggest PGI get started now on figuring out how they will/will not implement it.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

do they?

YES.

Will they?

Probably not.

The roadmap to balancing the game is not that hard to figure out, though there would be much QQ along the way. But hey, the QQ is always strong, so why not?

And it doesn't even require sized hardpoints, heatscale revamp, etc, or anything drastic, though those would be nice.

This issue begins with the fact we have ZERO constitency, zero base line. That starts with tier 1 tech. Then, all the clan whining and Joe's machismo aside, as a PvP game, you sidegrade all tech based on that. One doesn't even need, or really want, truly perfect balance. You just need to close the yawning chasms we have now. And then, onl then use quirks to spackle the gaps.

The issue is that not only does PGI seem unwilling to do that, but too much shortsighted forum QQ, and too many agendas, including amongst those that PGI seems to listen to, to see it happening.

Or at least, see it really fixed. But, it is not unreasonable to try to head off the most egregious balance issues, at the pass. And who knows, sometimes, food for thought sinks in. I have to hope that Russ has more foresight than someone like Divine Retribution has demonstrated, by being able to connect the dots on the pretty picture I drew here.

The sad part is how many people on these forums either can't, or choose NOT to see the connection.

This is spot on, unfortunately.

[Wintersdark]

While an initial supporter of mixtech from the very start, it'll be an unholy mess added to the game now. Too many "balancing features" added since Clans dropped... And in the initial design.


To add mixtech properly now, they'd basically have to restart completely, rebalance all the weapons, change all the quirks, change basic mech construction rules.... It could be done well, but as Bishop said about heatscale changes, that's just too much of a change. It won't happen.

Best we can hope for is that going forward they keep it in mind.

Edited by Wintersdark, 19 May 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 19 May 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

While an initial supporter of mixtech from the very start, it'll be an unholy mess added to the game now. Too many "balancing features" added since Clans dropped... And in the initial design.


To add mixtech properly now, they'd basically have to restart completely, rebalance all the weapons, change all the quirks, change basic mech construction rules.... It could be done well, but as Bishop said about heatscale changes, that's just too much of a change. It won't happen.

Best we can hope for is that going forward they keep it in mind.

Yeah. I kinda try to use the Forums and twitter to be one of those "consciences" on Russ's shoulder, hoping to occasionally help steer away from icebergs. Though I don't know if Russ would consider me one of the Devils, or Angels, on his shoulders, lol.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 May 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

Yeah. I kinda try to use the Forums and twitter to be one of those "consciences" on Russ's shoulder, hoping to occasionally help steer away from icebergs. Though I don't know if Russ would consider me one of the Devils, or Angels, on his shoulders, lol.

You are NaCl.

[Almond Brown]

Bilbo, on 18 May 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

I wouldn't have put the Clan tech in the game in competition with IS tech at all. But here we are.

So you would have went, and stayed with, 3025 era Tech ONLY under your MWO License then?

If only Crystal Balls or Magic Mirrors were real...

Edited by Almond Brown, 19 May 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[Bilbo]

Almond Brown, on 19 May 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

So you would have went and stayed with 3025 era Tech ONLY under your MWO License then?

If only Crystal Balls or Magic Mirrors were real...

Yes. At the very least until they got the core game straightened out.

[Almond Brown]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

no offense Joe, but that's one of the worst ways to view balance in a game, period.

stuff

In a videogame there is no reason to even introduce something if it simply is going to be obsolete. Waste of resources.

No offense Bishop but tell that to every MMO video game ever made on the Planet Earth since they started making video games. Or every game is which you can upgrade any piece of your KIT...

Leather - Padded - Toughened - Hardened - Metal - Steel -Plate - Breast - Full... Shields are next...

Depending on what you wish to do determines whether any of those become "obsolete". Most definitely do, or you do.

Now we can add + modifiers if you'd like but the point is made I presume...

Edited by Almond Brown, 19 May 2015 - 08:00 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Mixed-tech + IS Quirks = Bow to the Inner Sphere overlords

Mixed tech would be bad. Quirks would have to be completely removed.

[Odanan]

Deathlike, on 18 May 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Mixtech is eventually going to happen.

Maybe not.

(and I hope not)

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 May 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

mixed tech will come out exactly when PGI feels it will sell more mechpacks.

SO around 3070 era in the Fiction?

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 19 May 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

No offense Bishop but tell that to every MMO video game ever made on the Planet Earth since they started making video games. Or every game is which you can upgrade any piece of your KIT...

Leather - Padded - Toughened - Hardened - Metal - Steel -Plate - Breast - Full... Shields are next...

Depending on what you wish to do determines whether any of those become "obsolete". Most definitely do, or you do.

Now we can add + modifiers if you'd like but the point is made I presume...

Perfect example.You don't tank well PvP in Leather armor. AND I don't know of anyone who asks for Leather to be balanced so it can be used just like Full Plate!

I should be able to use my 1st lvl rusty knife in PvP and it be useful!

[Tombstoner]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 May 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Problem is that as we go further into the timeline Mixed Tech is a reality. So I'd suggest PGI get started now on figuring out how they will/will not implement it.

This is where i like to insert the concept of COF as a method of balancing.... it works very simply. if you use mix tech you pay a price for the advantage: your chances to hit a target get worse....This is over come by game play and player skill.

Edited by Tombstoner, 20 May 2015 - 05:28 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 May 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

SO around 3070 era in the Fiction?

for factory stuff, yeah. 3060 for field kits.