74 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

Roadkill, on 23 June 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

It doesn't need to fire faster, it needs to generate less heat.

if it had both then it could be more viable as a Full Face Time continues fire weapon,
also how many people(not boating AC2s) over heat because of them?

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 23 June 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[DasSibby]

Before the AC2 nerf it was my favorite weapon. I didn't get a lot of kills, or do tons of damage, but it was *perfect* to support other mechs.

While they'd focus on my friendly with the AC20, I'd be steadily chipping away at their armor, or keeping that pesky Jenner from jumping out and nailing my friend from behind.

Basically, it wasn't a super weapon, but it functioned as the Clan AC's currently do. They're fantastic suppression weapons, and great support weapons. (And I've always wondered why clanners don't take more advantage of this...)

So I love the cooldown/fire-rate reduction idea. The weight and exposure time will grantee that it will never be a "elite" weapon. But it will become a viable, and fun weapon again.

[Roadkill]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 June 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

also how many people(not boating AC2s) over heat because of them?

You might be surprised. The AC/2 isn't the hottest weapon in existence, but due to the fact that it encourages continuous fire you can overheat using just a single cannon.

Even Small Lasers don't encourage continuous fire the way an AC/2 does. 3 seconds is plenty of time to twist to roll damage, and doing so almost always causes you to slow your rate of fire below the weapon's max.

But the AC/2 doesn't give you time to roll damage, so you just stand there and hold the trigger down. It adds up really fast.

[Andi Nagasia]

i use my Elite'd AC2-Nova allot(its fun allot of fun) ,
i would over heat if i fired for 39 seconds straight but i rarely over heat at all,
as it only take a couple seconds in the shade to cool off, then its back to work,
i would suggest it to anyone who wants to see what 0.54 AC2s would feel like,

[XCOM Engineer 3051]

10x0.3 secs= 3 secs for 20 damage. 0.3 0.4 secs to reload a single shell.
With a 10 shell magazine and 4 seconds to reload a mag.

These numbers are guesstimates, however I believe the 2's should do a little more damage with in the cool down time of a B-20 (B=Ballistics) to do its damage. The reason being, one will need to focus fire continuously in order to put out the 2's max dps which will be more challenging then simply blasting someone for 20 damage with a B-20. However; the reload time for a magazine on a B-2 will be a little longer to help curve its dps down.

B-2's; 5's; & 10's would gain magazine clips. B-5s would gain 4 clip magazines; & B-10s would gain 2 clip magazine. Leaving the 20 at 1 shot with no magazine. Keep the amount of rounds divisible by 20. If that seems silly something else could be worked in.

What we want to do is use the B-20s to figure out what numbers we need to keep the Ballistics useful but not over power one another. Using the 2's even though the dps might be a little higher after unloading a full clip is a consequence because one needs to be revealed while constantly firing and making contact! Plus they would generate a more heat since the weapon (B-2) is being fired frequently, & longer.

[El Bandito]

We need the bloody AC2 cooldown module to make it better. WTF is Russ & co doing? They already acknowledged that AC2 CD module is missing, yet months went by without the module, since.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 23 July 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

We need the bloody AC2 cooldown module to make it better. WTF is Russ & co doing? They already acknowledged that AC2 CD module is missing, yet months went by without the module, since.

We also need it to have a faster base cool-down, too. The BJ-1 is okay with a pair of AC/2 only because they have 0.47s between shots...and that's before skill tree reductions.

[jaxjace]

Alistair Winter, on 19 May 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

The whole point of ballistics in MWO is to sacrifice weight, space and infinite number of shots for the sake of either high instant pinpoint damage (AC20) or low heat (AC5) or something in between (AC10).

If the weapon isn't cold enough, or doesn't do enough pinpoint damage, then there's no synergy with lasers and missiles. If there's no synergy, it will only ever be useful on a few one-trick ponies, like the 3xAC2 Shadow Hawk or 6xAC2 King Crab.

Since the AC2 will always lack instant pinpoint damage, I think low heat is non-negotiable. Now, I do think reducing cooldown is a valid approach, but then it should be more about suppressive fire than high heat DPS. People will tell you that screenshake is bad, but we already have chain-firing Clan LRMs and Clan UACs, so I don't see why that argument should only apply to the Inner Sphere.

Moreover, low heat is the only thing that will ever make the AC2 a viable choice for low tonnage mechs (e.g. Blackjack, which comes with 2xAC2 + lasers as stock armament), because low tonnage mechs in MWO don't get truedubs. Lighter mechs need ballistics too. When you deny light and low medium mechs ballistics, you just end up with more laservomit.

oh but the 6ac2 crab is really fun. Its a bad mech, really bad, but you can pull of some miraculous damage numbers...if you live.

[FupDup]

The Littlest Dakka™ still feels sad after all of the nerfs over time.

[jss78]

FupDup, on 23 July 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

The Littlest Dakka™ still feels sad after all of the nerfs over time.

Which makes it even stranger that the AC/2 in particular is singled out as not getting the module. I literally cannot remember when I last got killed by AC/2's...

Edit: autocorrect fail

Edited by jss78, 23 July 2016 - 10:59 AM.

[Pjwned]

Over a year old thread getting a necrobump, nice.

I still stand by what I said too. The AC2 did get a 20% heat reduction a while ago which helped a bit, but it still runs too hot.

[Destoroyah]

Cooldown isn't really the problem with the AC2 it's the heat. It really needs another heat reduction. Another thing I think the weapon really needs is a velocity increase. It's the longest range AC in the game yet it is very poor at it's job of long range fire suppression cause at those ranges the targets are really small and the required leading needed to just hit the target is rather high leading to a poor hit to miss ratio. Speaking of it's poor hit to miss ratio when preforming it's primary job it really needs ammo per ton increase as it chews though ammo rather fast as is.

So in short reduced heat, velocity increase, and ammo increase would be enough to make the weapon have a purpose and use that doesn't allow it t be so easily overshadowed by it's larger cousins.

[Mcgral18]

Destoroyah, on 23 July 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Cooldown isn't really the problem with the AC2 it's the heat. It really needs another heat reduction. Another thing I think the weapon really needs is a velocity increase. It's the longest range AC in the game yet it is very poor at it's job of long range fire suppression cause at those ranges the targets are really small and the required leading needed to just hit the target is rather high leading to a poor hit to miss ratio. Speaking of it's poor hit to miss ratio when preforming it's primary job it really needs ammo per ton increase as it chews though ammo rather fast as is.

So in short reduced heat, velocity increase, and ammo increase would be enough to make the weapon have a purpose and use that doesn't allow it t be so easily overshadowed by it's larger cousins.

2KM/s does make it tied for the fastest unquirked velocity in the game

It could stand to have its 3x range reinstated, though. Only Goose has that reward...which doesn't particularly suit Balance as it already wins most categories.

[Spleenslitta]

Oh dear me....this old thread of mine is still alive?

I still believe in increased firerate although less heat is a good addition it will not cure the AC2.
My old idea of Burst Limitations to prevent the AC2 from becoming too powerfull after an increased firerate is simply outdated and too strange and outright weird.

A guy over in the feature suggestions part of the forum got a far better idea in this thread -
http://mwomercs.com/...ved-ballistics/

As for the AC2 being too hot...well i'd say we need to make a comparison that is surprisingly simple.
If you had 1 ballistic point and 1 energy point along with 7 or 8 free tonns which weapon would you pick?
The ER PPC or the AC2?

If the AC2 kept it's current firerate but became nearly heat neutral weapon would you pick it over the ER PPC which fills a similar role for the same weight when you factor in ammo/heatsinks?
I sure wouldn't because the AC2's advantages over the ER PPC is not sufficient in such a state.

Advantages / disadvantages for the AC2.
- Nearly heat neutral if some players get their will.
- High velocity.
- Rapid fire / spread damage and long facetime to do damage comparable to it's competitor with it's current firerate.

Add the fact that PPC's knock out ECM and that pinpoint damage takes priority over everything else nowadays.
All PPCs has a 4 second cooldown and the IS AC2 takes 3.6 secs to do 10 damage.
Will heat neutrality, velocity and being 0.4 secs faster to get to 10 damage really make that much of a difference?
Only 0.4 secs.

Remember i'm not talking about boating...only a single one of these weapons. Just one.
The reason i talk about only 1 of these weapons is because light mechs have a hard time gathering enough tonnage to use 2 AC2's and enough ammo to keep them feed and happy.
An AC2 needs at least 2 tonns of ammo to be content and each ammo tonn can do 150 damage at maximum.
And that is if you hit with everything....and all that will be spread damage unless you're a god of marksmanship.

The AC2's main users will probably be mediums and light mechs. This is because assault mechs will have a harder time of keeping a constant stream of shells on the target.

In addition the AC2's shells have big explosions that hides the target. It can become hard to tell if you're hitting the target.
Imagine a constant stream of explosions covering your target so that you can barelly see whether the crosshairs is red or not.
Firing flash is blinding when the AC2 is mounted close to the cockpit. I tried it back in the day so i know.