73 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

With every mech line I master I get this feeling that among the conventional primary weapons (not counting the weird stuff like SSRM, flamers, PPCs, LB-X), lasers are the worst - i. e. have the worst sustained DPS because of low damage to heat ratio. First observed it with the Hunchback line (4P vs. 4G vs. 4J), confirmed with Stalkers (5S vs. 3H vs. 5M). 4P and 5S are way worse than the rest. Now, lasers are a great secondary weapon, especially if your primary isn't very hot. But do you feel it's a lousy primary, or is it just me?

[NephyrisX]

It's just you.

Laser Vomit Meta is still king at this point of time.

[Aleski]

Do we play the same game ?

[Juodas Varnas]

Tier 4.



Yeah, i know, i know.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

no, lasers have BY FAR the best tonnage to damage ratio and the best damage profile in the game

im not joking
the HITSCAN weapon is the one that is the go-to weapon for brutal damage

massive alpha pinpoint laser meta is unfortunately a thing

[Xavori]

Aleski, on 17 March 2016 - 12:56 AM, said:

Do we play the same game ?

Ya. I'm pretty sure he's not playing MWO.

Of course, the thing is that if I can do anything other than laservomit, I do so. I'm a huge fan of ballistics, and it's made me sad all the way back to the tabletop days how badly unbalanced those weapons are (way too much tonnage tied up in a weapon that requires ammo). I'm also pretty keen on SRM's provided the mech I'm sticking them on is very fast, very durable, or very sneaky.

[Aleski]

Xavori, on 17 March 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

Ya. I'm pretty sure he's not playing MWO.

Of course, the thing is that if I can do anything other than laservomit, I do so. I'm a huge fan of ballistics, and it's made me sad all the way back to the tabletop days how badly unbalanced those weapons are (way too much tonnage tied up in a weapon that requires ammo). I'm also pretty keen on SRM's provided the mech I'm sticking them on is very fast, very durable, or very sneaky.

I'm playing a lot of different builds too : Ballistic, SRM boat, Streak boat, brawlers with mix loadout, Crit seekers, LRM boat sometimes and of course laser boat. Diversity is the salt of this game, that's why i like to play a lot with different kind of builds !

[Taxxian]

You are only looking at the DPS on paper... then it may me so... but when you actually play a while, you will learn that lasers are great!

1) Lasers always hit, they dont have hitreg problems and even if you miss initially you can correct your aim while firing
2) Lasers get the largest Alphastrikes for the least tonnage. And thats the point, you get out of cover, deal a lot of damage in under a second and deal it to exactly the spot you want it to. Then you go back to cover again, no other Weapon is as good at that as lasers... Your DPS is of no concern while you are behind cover anyway...

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Lasers are by far the strongest weapons in the game right now, and have been for a long time. What builds are you using? There is likely a fatal flaw somewhere that is limiting your damage output. Are you, perhaps, carrying too many of the same weapon and breaking ghost heat? Not enough heat sinks? Post up a few of the laser builds you've tried, and maybe someone can help you figure out what you've been doing wrong.

[DavidStarr]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 17 March 2016 - 12:59 AM, said:

no, lasers have BY FAR the best tonnage to damage ratio

It's very true, but it only means you do high alpha damage (provided you have enough hardpoints). It doesn't invalidate my point that lasers have poor sustained damage compared to ammo-dependent weapon. I know, it's all about balance - damage vs. heat vs. weight vs. number of slots required (for the weapon itself plus ammo). But I don't get why laser vomit is the meta.

Taxxian, on 17 March 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:

You are only looking at the DPS on paper... then it may me so... but when you actually play a while, you will learn that lasers are great!

I'm looking at my per-mech stats page.

[DavidStarr]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 17 March 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

What builds are you using? There is likely a fatal flaw somewhere that is limiting your damage output. Are you, perhaps, carrying too many of the same weapon and breaking ghost heat? Not enough heat sinks?

First, there's the trial HBK-4P. I'm well aware of ghost heat so I use two weapons groups of no more than 6 medium lasers.
Then, there's my MPL HBK-4P.
And then there's STK-5S, for which I've tried no less than 5 different variations and still can't find one that's powerful. It works, but it's underwhelming to say the least. I think this is my current iteration. I had to drop some lasers and squeeze some SRMs in to stop being useless on the battlefield.

Edited by DavidStarr, 17 March 2016 - 01:19 AM.

[LordNothing]

it doesn't matter how well the lasers perform if you have 8 or more of them. sure you over heat in a brawl, but the thing about lasers you can kill the target before that happens. missile point inflations are starting to catch up to lasers, thanks mostly to the archer. i hope the bane comes along and really does the same thing for autocannons. still you would never be able to max out that many missile or ballistics points.

[Paigan]

DavidStarr, on 17 March 2016 - 12:52 AM, said:

With every mech line I master I get this feeling that among the conventional primary weapons (not counting the weird stuff like SSRM, flamers, PPCs, LB-X), lasers are the worst - i. e. have the worst sustained DPS because of low damage to heat ratio. First observed it with the Hunchback line (4P vs. 4G vs. 4J), confirmed with Stalkers (5S vs. 3H vs. 5M). 4P and 5S are way worse than the rest. Now, lasers are a great secondary weapon, especially if your primary isn't very hot. But do you feel it's a lousy primary, or is it just me?

Maybe post smurfy links to your used loadouts for some consulting on optimizing heat (and other stuff...)

[kesmai]

Yes op is correct. Everyone stop using lasers. Use anything else!

lasers are bad. They cause cancer aids and impoteNcy at same time.

*cuddles his black knight*

[Paigan]

kesmai, on 17 March 2016 - 01:23 AM, said:

Yes op is correct. Everyone stop using lasers. Use anything else!

lasers are bad. They cause cancer aids and impoteNcy at same time.

*cuddles his black knight*

I heard a large laser shot directly in the eye of a human can cause cancer!
... or worse

[-Vompo-]

kesmai, on 17 March 2016 - 01:23 AM, said:

lasers are bad. They cause cancer aids and impoteNcy at same time.

We need to do some more research on that but if this claim is true we might wish to sue.

[kesmai]

Well paigan, at least you wont see the next shot coming.

[GreyNovember]

DavidStarr, on 17 March 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

you do high alpha damage (provided you have enough hardpoints).

This is the key here.

DPS means absolutely nothing if, after my first laser alpha, you're cored out and vulnerable, and I have made you afraid to continue looking in my direction for fear of being finished off.

If you were packing only C-ERLL or something, with an anklebiter light packing SRMs, you may have a valid argument.

[Greyhart]

Play what you enjoy.

I like ballistics and missiles.

everyone is right though Lasers as easy mode.

[Tarogato]

DavidStarr, on 17 March 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

It's very true, but it only means you do high alpha damage

High alpha damage is almost everything in this game. 90% of game play involves:

- poke around a corner or hill
- fire an alpha
- get back to cover and torso twist, hoping the enemy had worse aim than you

Sustained DPS mechs can't do that. You sit out in the open with any sustained DPS mech and you get instantly shredded by multiple enemies firing alpha's at you. Or even one single enemy firing an alpha at you...he can do more damage to you than you can to him in the time that it takes him to fire his alpha and wiggle back into cover, unless he's out of position like dummy and has no cover nearby.