244 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

The Summoner does get a +5% speed quirk. Thats like having its 350XL upgraded to a 365-370XL engine for free. That makes up for not having endo

The main problem is still the locked jumpjets. IMO non-S omnipod jumpjets should be removeable. While only s-omnipod jumpjets should be locked. Because the s-omnipods are specifically for jumping, so it makes sense to keep those locked.

Effectively that would give all the Summoners unlocked JJs but the Timberwolf-S would still have locked jumpjets. That would really help balance the two.

Edited by Khobai, 23 May 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 23 May 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

The Summoner does get a +5% speed quirk. Thats like having its 350XL upgraded to a 365-370XL engine for free. That makes up for not having endo

The main problem is still the locked jumpjets. IMO non-S omnipod jumpjets should be removeable. While only s-omnipod jumpjets should be locked. Because the s-omnipods are specifically for jumping, so it makes sense to keep those locked.

Effectively that would give all the Summoners unlocked JJs but the Timberwolf-S would still have locked jumpjets. That would really help balance the two.

Again, we have a Summoner without JJs, it's called the HellBringer.

SOme of use would like to see the actual SUMMONER be better. Summoners Jump.

[pbiggz]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

Again, we have a Summoner without JJs, it's called the HellBringer.

SOme of use would like to see the actual SUMMONER be better. Summoners Jump.

Then make the jumpjets useful, and give the Summoner the tonnage it needs to function. You can't keep pretending away its problems because special mech is different. Nothing will ever get fixed.

[IraqiWalker]

Khobai, on 23 May 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

The Summoner does get a +5% speed quirk. Thats like having its 350XL upgraded to a 365-370XL engine for free. That makes up for not having endo

The main problem is still the locked jumpjets. IMO non-S omnipod jumpjets should be removeable. While only s-omnipod jumpjets should be locked. Because the s-omnipods are specifically for jumping, so it makes sense to keep those locked.

Effectively that would give all the Summoners unlocked JJs but the Timberwolf-S would still have locked jumpjets. That would really help balance the two.

The thing is, the JJs on all summoners are hardlocked, both in fluff and crunch. The S pods are jump capable on the omnis that never had JJs on their prime config to begin with.

pbiggz, on 23 May 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

Then make the jumpjets useful, and give the Summoner the tonnage it needs to function. You can't keep pretending away its problems because special mech is different. Nothing will ever get fixed.

No one is pretending away it's problems. Did you even read ANY posts in this thread, or the one you're quoting? Here, I'll give you a hint:

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

Some of use would like to see the actual SUMMONER be better. Summoners Jump.

The part in bold says it all.

[Clownwarlord]

SMN-PRIME

This is my build and my weapon groups are:
1 Button - Both ER PPCs
2 Button - chain fire ER PPCs
3 Button - Both SRM 4s

The build allows me to pop-trat snipe and shoot around the right side of a hill with ease. Then if I get hot I can cycle my ERPPCs to save heat. If the enemy gets to close let loose the SRM4s which having them in the arm gives me that little more movement to catch lights. Alpha is in the 40s and dps in the 4 so decent not great but use it with mobility to keep out of the line of enemy fire makes it fun and great to play.

Also ERPPCs dual fire and their spread damage help catch open parts at range (just wish the shots travel faster).

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 23 May 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

The Summoner does get a +5% speed quirk. Thats like having its 350XL upgraded to a 365-370XL engine for free. That makes up for not having endo

The main problem is still the locked jumpjets. IMO non-S omnipod jumpjets should be removeable. While only s-omnipod jumpjets should be locked. Because the s-omnipods are specifically for jumping, so it makes sense to keep those locked.

Effectively that would give all the Summoners unlocked JJs but the Timberwolf-S would still have locked jumpjets. That would really help balance the two.

In this thread:

> Remove locked JJs
> Give it Endo
> Add hardpoints

SMN becomes TBR 2.0


Sometimes I wonder if people simply don't think before they put forward ideas, or if they are simply biased for/against specific mechs for some bizarrre emotional reason.

[IraqiWalker]

Ultimatum X, on 23 May 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

Sometimes I wonder if people simply don't think before they put forward ideas, or if they are simply biased for/against specific mechs for some bizarrre emotional reason.

It's why I think quirks are the best way to go, with some more pod variety. No one is saying give it 8 hardpoints,

[Bishop Steiner]

pbiggz, on 23 May 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

Then make the jumpjets useful, and give the Summoner the tonnage it needs to function. You can't keep pretending away its problems because special mech is different. Nothing will ever get fixed.

at what point have I ever asked for that or pretended it was special?

I've been fighting for all the second class Omnis to get Endo for nearly a YEAR. And For JJs to be fixed by using intelligent methods to minimize Poptarts, such as continuous reticle shake or CoF while jumping, and sensible things like Omni JJs not being as efficient and powerful as hardwired ones.

Ultimatum X, on 23 May 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

In this thread:

> Remove locked JJs
> Give it Endo
> Add hardpoints

SMN becomes TBR 2.0


Sometimes I wonder if people simply don't think before they put forward ideas, or if they are simply biased for/against specific mechs for some bizarrre emotional reason.

I'd argue I have put more thought into the effect not just on the summoner but on Omnis, and balance in general, than 99% of those on the forums, including, sadly, most of the Devs. Which is one reason I will never argue to unlock the JJs. Especially since it doesn't actually address the issues, especially beyond the Summoner.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2015 - 08:20 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Ultimatum X, on 23 May 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

In this thread:

> Remove locked JJs
> Give it Endo
> Add hardpoints

SMN becomes TBR 2.0


Sometimes I wonder if people simply don't think before they put forward ideas, or if they are simply biased for/against specific mechs for some bizarrre emotional reason.

Don't forget drop the engine, become the most kickass Dual Gauss robot.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2015 - 08:20 PM, said:

I'd argue I have put more thought into the effect not just on the summoner but on Omnis, and balance in general, than 99% of those on the forums, including, sadly, most of the Devs. Which is one reason I will never argue to unlock the JJs. Especially since it doesn't actually address the issues, especially beyond the Summoner.

I didn't really mean you at all, aside from Endo (which I agree with) I haven't seen you propose the other things.


It was more an offhand comment on some of the myopia that runs rampant here.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Ultimatum X, on 23 May 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

Sometimes I wonder if people simply don't think before they put forward ideas, or if they are simply biased for/against specific mechs for some bizarrre emotional reason.

Are you talking about people in this thread, or how PGI balances mechs?

[Bishop Steiner]

00ohDstruct, on 23 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Are you talking about people in this thread, or how PGI balances mechs?

could be a bit of both. There's some pretty.....er...interesting ideas all around.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

SMN-PRIME

That looks like it could do.....things...

[Templar Dane]

Ultimatum X, on 23 May 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

Clan XL > Your Reasons

IS standard >= clan XL

[IraqiWalker]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 23 May 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

SMN-PRIME

That looks like it could do.....things...

Yep, and a MDD can do it with more SRMs, the 2 LPLs, more ammo, and more armor. Just no JJs.

lordtzar, on 23 May 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

IS standard >= clan XL

No.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Oh I know, how about standard UAC fare?
SMN-PRIME

Or how about this weirdo?
SMN-PRIME

I'm actually tempted to buy a Summoner and see what I could do with it.

[Bishop Steiner]

lordtzar, on 23 May 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

IS standard >= clan XL

yes, because twice the weight for minimally viable survivability is truly superior.

Sigilum Sanctum, on 23 May 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

Oh I know, how about standard UAC fare?
SMN-PRIME

Or how about this weirdo?
SMN-PRIME

I'm actually tempted to buy a Summoner and see what I could do with it.

prepare to be underwhelmed anywhere outside Puglandia.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

IraqiWalker, on 23 May 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

Yep, and a MDD can do it with more SRMs, the 2 LPLs, more ammo, and more armor. Just no JJs.

Disregarding that bad build, the Mad Dog is also incredibly squishy on top of the lack of JJs, not to mention 60 tonner armor. The Mad Dog is objectively the worst of the Clan heavies currently just because of how squishy it is and how short range most of the builds are.

[Templar Dane]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 May 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

yes, because twice the weight for minimally viable survivability is truly superior.

Standard engines have their place.

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 23 May 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Disregarding that bad build, the Mad Dog is also incredibly squishy on top of the lack of JJs, not to mention 60 tonner armor. The Mad Dog is objectively the worst of the Clan heavies currently just because of how squishy it is and how short range most of the builds are.

It really isn't.

Clan Heavies are without fail

TBR
HBR
MDD
SMN

in that order.

Because the MDDs firepower far outstrips the SMNs survivability.

lordtzar, on 23 May 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

Standard engines have their place.

Yes, on IS Mechs that can't use C-XL.

Because at no point is being twice the weight, to run 1-2 MLasers, is superior to being able pack that much more firepower until becoming a stick.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 May 2015 - 09:48 PM.