86 replies to this topic

[LordBraxton]

Would I run an 18 ER small laser executioner?? Of course. That's 90 damage over 1.5 seconds. What kind of thread is this? I guess it's fun to imagine a world where clan mechs are even more brokenly OP

Edited by LordBraxton, 08 October 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

LordBraxton, on 08 October 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Would I run an 18 ER small laser executioner?? Of course. That's 90 damage over 1.5 seconds. What kind of thread is this? I guess it's fun to imagine a world where clan mechs are even more brokenly OP

the problem with that is that their is a 16 weapon Limit in MWO(other MechWarrior Games too),
also their is the problem of being a large mech with a 165m Range, so theres that as well,

also Russ has said that the Tech Balance is Coming soon to PTS,
and this is more a BattleMech Vs OmniMech Discussion, not IS vs Clan,
Tech aside BattleMechs are much better than Omnis,

=Example=
you have a WHK-C Omni(5E)(can have at most 6E)
now you have a WHK-C BattleMech(5E)(add 2-3 more HardPoints as per HardPoint Inflation)
your WHK BattleMech would have Endo(not Ferro) Better Engine Choice(more Weapons or More Speed),

same with IS BattleMechs Vs IS OmniMechs, Omnis arnt worth it as they are,
IIC mechs i believe will show just how Inferior the Non Optimized OmniMechs are,

[LordBraxton]

Andi Nagasia, on 08 October 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

the problem with that is that their is a 16 weapon Limit in MWO(other MechWarrior Games too),
also their is the problem of being a large mech with a 165m Range, so theres that as well,

Range isn't an issue (its 200 optimal btw, 220 with module) I run 6spl and a UAC20 on my EXE and it's the bomb. Gorilla arms have to brawl anyway. I guess I could live with 16 smalls.

Andi Nagasia, on 08 October 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

also Russ has said that the Tech Balance is Coming soon to PTS,
and this is more a BattleMech Vs OmniMech Discussion, not IS vs Clan,
Tech aside BattleMechs are much better than Omnis,

=Example=
you have a WHK-C Omni(5E)(can have at most 6E)
now you have a WHK-C BattleMech(5E)(add 2-3 more HardPoints as per HardPoint Inflation)
your WHK BattleMech would have Endo(not Ferro) Better Engine Choice(more Weapons or More Speed),

same with IS BattleMechs Vs IS OmniMechs, Omnis arnt worth it as they are,
IIC mechs i believe will show just how Inferior the Non Optimized OmniMechs are,

You are thinking of that other thread, I can bring up any balance issues I want. Clan are drastically OP, and that's what IIC mechs will really show. Not that we all don't already know it....

Edited by LordBraxton, 08 October 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

LordBraxton, on 08 October 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Range isn't an issue (its 200 optimal btw, 220 with module) I run 6spl and a UAC20 on my EXE and it's the bomb. Gorilla arms have to brawl anyway. I guess I could live with 16 smalls.

You are thinking of that other thread, I can bring up any balance issues I want. Clan are drastically OP, and that's what IIC mechs will really show. Not that we all don't already know it....

O mis-read ER-SL not SPL, ya 200 Range,

Yes but this topic assumes that Is Tech is balanced Vs Clan Tech,
because only then can we Truely Balance BattleMech Vs OmniMech,

and at this Point without a Tech balance Pass IICs will dominate,

[Andi Nagasia]

Moldur, on 24 May 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Yes, I totally would. Then I could have a dakka timber wolf.

Isnt that Called an Ebon Jaguar?
but ya you could Run a Dakka TBR, from a Max of 2 to a New Max of 4Ballistic Points,
Maybe AC2s?(for Trolling), or AC5s?(might have some Ammo Problems)(Assuming you have 3-4Dakka)

Edit-
WHK Light Destroyer,
4xMPL, 5xSSRM6(7Tons Ammo), TC1, CAP,
WHK-B(Base) with WHK-A(LAx2), 4E & 5M,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 17 February 2016 - 09:13 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Mcgral18, on 23 May 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

6 MG Cute Fox? I'd be fine with that.



DUAL ECM!

What effect would that have on the Jesus Box?

Whats the most a cute fox bring now? 4? with some E hardpoints scrambled in?

I would love to flip my ECM around in a few mechs, like the ACH so i could use the 2 E RT Onmi.

Squeeze 7 er smalls with ECM or 7 Sm pulses...mmm Spooky Heat here i come.

Edited by Revis Volek, 17 February 2016 - 10:26 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

heaven forbid we get a SHC with 12MG, WH40K Exterminatus Edition,
how about a 4SRM4 3SLP IFR, Light Hunter,

[-Vompo-]

I'd do 12 machinegun shadowcat if this was a thing but I do hope it will never be.

[RestosIII]

Mcgral18, on 23 May 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

6 MG Cute Fox? I'd be fine with that.



DUAL ECM!

What effect would that have on the Jesus Box?

6 AMS Cute Fox. I'm 100% for this monster.

[ScarecrowES]

VompoVompatti, on 27 February 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

I'd do 12 machinegun shadowcat if this was a thing but I do hope it will never be.

What you want, sir, is a Piranha.

[SplashDown]

after all the tweeking and so called balancing in this game ..i personaly will never buy anything from pgi ever again.
and i will advise the same to any-1 who ask me.

[Andi Nagasia]

!!!Poll Added!!!

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I wouldn't support ambidextrous omnipods.

But I would support mirror configurations.

[Armorine]

i could support this if it was done carefully

[GreenHell]

There's only one little problem with the whole "ambidextrous" idea you've got here. You are right in that the Omni-Pods "CAN" be mounted on the wrong side. However, the result is a bit more.... giggle inducing than you might have guessed.

There is a mech in the tabletop that ALREADY has it's arms mounted on the wrong sides, and that mech is the Firemoth (aka - Dasher). The lore tells about how the 'mech designers didn't like how low the arm mounts were... so they mounted them on the wrong sides. And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is the result:



THIS is what happens when you mount the Omni-Pods on the wrong sides.... And I can't help but laugh... every... single... time.

[Fleeb the Mad]

No mirrored omnipods.

As it stands already every omnimech 'variant' is just the same combination of its best pods on a different CT.

I won't personally agree with the assertion that battlemechs are better because they have 'more options'. I don't think I'd even agree they have more options. The truth is both are equal in their ability to be customized, it's just that you can't change the same parts. I don't think the ability to change hardpoints is in any way inferior to the ability to change engine sizes or mess with endo/ferro.

Both battlemechs and omnimechs have bad chassis. Sometimes your customization options can't fix that. Granting more customization options still won't fix that, because the mechs that outclass them will still be better.

[Andi Nagasia]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 28 February 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I wouldn't support ambidextrous omnipods.

But I would support mirror configurations.

Why not? its only Adding 1-2 more HardPoints at the Most,
and in many Cases will help Underpreformers more than the OverPreformers,

and what do you Mean by mirror configurations?
like PGI Created OmniPods for HardPoint Starved Mechs? if so, so would i,

GreenHell, on 28 February 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

There's only one little problem with the whole "ambidextrous" idea you've got here. You are right in that the Omni-Pods "CAN" be mounted on the wrong side. However, the result is a bit more.... giggle inducing than you might have guessed.

There is a mech in the tabletop that ALREADY has it's arms mounted on the wrong sides, and that mech is the Firemoth (aka - Dasher). The lore tells about how the 'mech designers didn't like how low the arm mounts were... so they mounted them on the wrong sides. And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is the result:

THIS is what happens when you mount the Omni-Pods on the wrong sides.... And I can't help but laugh... every... single... time.

and Flipping the arms Decreases the Mechs Tonnage by 5Tons,
also this wouldnt be taking one arm and putting it on the other side,
-
think of Mechs Locations as Cameras,
and the Pods are Just Attachments with Different Uses

Fleeb the Mad, on 28 February 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

No mirrored omnipods.

As it stands already every omnimech 'variant' is just the same combination of its best pods on a different CT.

I won't personally agree with the assertion that battlemechs are better because they have 'more options'. I don't think I'd even agree they have more options. The truth is both are equal in their ability to be customized, it's just that you can't change the same parts. I don't think the ability to change hardpoints is in any way inferior to the ability to change engine sizes or mess with endo/ferro.

Both battlemechs and omnimechs have bad chassis. Sometimes your customization options can't fix that. Granting more customization options still won't fix that, because the mechs that outclass them will still be better.

Not True, as for some OmniMechs Like the Nova its more about the Quirks(no matter how little),
also BattleMechs can change Everything but Hard Points, & OmniMechs can only Change Hard Points,
they arnt Balanced because they Dont offer the same level of Customizability, BattleMechs have more,
-
Example you have 2 Cars one has 6 Options, the other has 1 options,
which has more Options, the one with 6, its clear in this Example,

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Andi Nagasia, on 28 February 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

Why not? its only Adding 1-2 more HardPoints at the Most,
and in many Cases will help Underpreformers more than the OverPreformers,

and what do you Mean by mirror configurations?
like PGI Created OmniPods for HardPoint Starved Mechs? if so, so would i,

Mirror configs like of mechs like HBR-PRIME except the right torso and right arms are where the ECM and lasers are held. Or the Timbers that use the A LT such as this TBR-S where the A LT and the Prime RT swap so the lasers are on the right side and the Gauss is on the left.

If we had it so mechs could have ambidextrous omnipods, you'd see a good number of mechs shift things around a lot, such as all Warhawks would start replacing their left torsos with the locked DHS for more tonnage so they could run less laser dependent builds and they'd potentially gain an extra E and two extra M hardpoints. Then there's the Hellbringer that would gain three more E hardpoints in the RT. Or the Swaguar being able to run dual goose all in the side torsos.

Sure, certain hurt mechs could benefit, like the Summoner gaining an extra M in the RT for a total of six M hardpoints. Or the Sad Cat getting a badly needed E hardpoint in the LT.

But the best ones also benefit from this, and that doesn't really help the under-performers if the non-under-performing ones are benefiting too.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Andi Nagasia, on 28 February 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

Not True, as for some OmniMechs Like the Nova its more about the Quirks(no matter how little),
also BattleMechs can change Everything but Hard Points, & OmniMechs can only Change Hard Points,
they arnt Balanced because they Dont offer the same level of Customizability, BattleMechs have more,
-
Example you have 2 Cars one has 6 Options, the other has 1 options,
which has more Options, the one with 6, its clear in this Example,

I can only respond with a flat no, that's not right. Omnimech quirks generally follow their pods, which means that not only can you swap hardpoints, but you can swap quirks in 6 sections.

And not only can you change hardpoints, but you always have several options for every component based on the number of variants for that chassis. You can mix and match to change not only the type, but also the number or location of hardpoints. Offering this...example by considering pods as one thing you can customize is wrong in every way I can address it.

[Andi Nagasia]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 28 February 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Mirror configs like of mechs like HBR-PRIME except the right torso and right arms are where the ECM and lasers are held. Or the Timbers that use the A LT such as this TBR-S where the A LT and the Prime RT swap so the lasers are on the right side and the Gauss is on the left.

If we had it so mechs could have ambidextrous omnipods, you'd see a good number of mechs shift things around a lot, such as all Warhawks would start replacing their left torsos with the locked DHS for more tonnage so they could run less laser dependent builds and they'd potentially gain an extra E and two extra M hardpoints. Then there's the Hellbringer that would gain three more E hardpoints in the RT. Or the Swaguar being able to run dual goose all in the side torsos.

Sure, certain hurt mechs could benefit, like the Summoner gaining an extra M in the RT for a total of six M hardpoints. Or the Sad Cat getting a badly needed E hardpoint in the LT.

But the best ones also benefit from this, and that doesn't really help the under-performers if the non-under-performing ones are benefiting too.

as Stated with the ECM Balance in the OP, you cant Stack ECM Pods, so having 2 HBR-P-LTs is Impossible,
also the TBR-A-LT will Also have all its Negative Quirks Doubling up, And Equipping both TBR-A-LTs,
Though the TBR-A-LT may need to have its Turn Angle Negative Qurik Doubled, to Punish Stacking,

Locked DHS are Locked to the Chassis not the Pod so nothing would Change with the WHK,
it just may get different Types of Quirks, for Example the X2(1M WHK-A-RT) would give better Spread,

Fleeb the Mad, on 28 February 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

I can only respond with a flat no, that's not right. Omnimech quirks generally follow their pods, which means that not only can you swap hardpoints, but you can swap quirks in 6 sections.

And not only can you change hardpoints, but you always have several options for every component based on the number of variants for that chassis. You can mix and match to change not only the type, but also the number or location of hardpoints. Offering this...example by considering pods as one thing you can customize is wrong in every way I can address it.

First off where if OmniMechs had Meaning Ful Quirks i would agree with you,
but as it is now, they dont most OmniMechs have been Standardized into a Mold,
95% of Heads/Legs Quirkless, and some Locations that have Quirks, 2.5%TurnRate? per leg?

Yes you Can Change Hard Points but some times theirs no Point,
most ADR/SCH/NVA/SMN/WHK Variants have no New Pods, some only have 1new Pod Per Variant,
without OmniMech HardPoints inflation we may get 4Variants of the Adder with no New OmniPods,

of Course the SCR/TBR already have the Best of Everything so they get the Best of Everything,
where as the Summoner doesnt really get anything new for its Variants, same old same old,

OmniPods with Meaning Ful Quirks could Fix this Problem,
but as how Anything Clan is Considered OP i dont see my Nova getting +5%TurnRate anytime soon,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 01 March 2016 - 08:48 PM.