90 replies to this topic

[Alex Morgaine]

Put everything on a 10 seconds cooldown and force all non arm weapons to fire straight, no convergence?

[-Vompo-]

Time to kill is fine. It might be even a bit too long if you know how to spread damage effectively and you are careful of your back. Losing your mech to few alpha strikes is only bad piloting unless you face direstar like suicide build.

[badaa]

get rid of pinpoint lower armor lose quirks and make lrms the longest range weapon and then u got mechwarrior

[AEgg]

Damage is too low already. What we need are smaller teams and higher damage, not bigger teams and lower. Or a good reason to fight in lances instead of a single large blob.

What is a reasonable amount of damage when it's 12v12 is a terrible amount for 1v1, and it's not good for weapons to feel useless unless you have an entire team on one target.

[Carrioncrows]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 26 May 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

lol eventually we'll be giant squares of armor sliding around the battlefield

Whatever happened to convergance? Theres still a skill for it in the tree

They have made it quite apparent that they will not be messing around with convergence. What we have is basically it.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Carrioncrows, on 26 May 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

They have made it quite apparent that they will not be messing around with convergence. What we have is basically it.

Thats ...stupid

[speleomaniac]

AEgg, on 26 May 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Damage is too low already. What we need are smaller teams and higher damage, not bigger teams and lower. Or a good reason to fight in lances instead of a single large blob.

What is a reasonable amount of damage when it's 12v12 is a terrible amount for 1v1, and it's not good for weapons to feel useless unless you have an entire team on one target.

Damage is too low....

When I play my 55 toner Griffin, I get out of the cover to go next cover, first alpha 45, my side torso is open before I can reach next cover another 45 Alpha and I am dead.

I am 2 shotted how much more damage do you want, should I die in one shot? Every mech in this game nearly able to deliver 45 alpha.

[Weeny Machine]

speleomaniac, on 26 May 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

Damage is too low....

When I play my 55 toner Griffin, I get out of the cover to go next cover, first alpha 45, my side torso is open before I can reach next cover another 45 Alpha and I am dead.

I am 2 shotted how much more damage do you want, should I die in one shot? Every mech in this game nearly able to deliver 45 alpha.

I feel the same. Even in light mechs you take quite some damage by a passing laser alpha.

[Joseph Mallan]

speleomaniac, on 26 May 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

Damage is too low....

When I play my 55 toner Griffin, I get out of the cover to go next cover, first alpha 45, my side torso is open before I can reach next cover another 45 Alpha and I am dead.

I am 2 shotted how much more damage do you want, should I die in one shot? Every mech in this game nearly able to deliver 45 alpha.

90 damage to kill you. How much damage should your 55 ton Mech soak, when you are being shot at by 20+ tons of weapons?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 May 2015 - 03:54 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

ArchSight, on 26 May 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

No, it won't make less skilled player's have impossible time killing mechs because not all weapons spread damage. They'll find the instant hit damage weapons and use those instead of the longer track time weapons if they can't track aim well. They can also use newbie friendly lock on weapons like LRMs , sense; they'll have brawlers that can spot mechs for them and can be supported on the battle feild because they don't die instantly to a teams constant alpha strike shooting.

This game can be played a different way besides alpha striking all the time. It has almost everything in it already that a player wants. It just needs to stop being out done by constant and mass shooting alpha strikes.

A balanced MechWarrior Online is where the alpha strikes are not used all the time.

EDIT: Oh look, I mentioned it also creates a few roles to do on the battle field. Does anyone want Role Warfare?

The only way to stop from Alpha Striking is to remove Alpha Striking. Not going to support that line of thinking.

[LordBraxton]

Halving firepower\doubling armor might push the trend towards DPS builds, which isn't all bad. But in the end it just makes single primary weapons obsolete. Increasing cooldown time would only make this game even more of a max-alpha\peek-n-poke fest. The only solution is a totally new heat system. Double heatsinks ruined the balance in table-top... and they ruined the balance here... It's way too easy using DHS, to make a heat-neutral-massive-alpha build. That's what we have in MWO now, and it sucks. One more reason CB was better....

Edited by LordBraxton, 27 May 2015 - 04:17 AM.

[speleomaniac]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

90 damage to kill you. How much damage should your 55 ton Mech soak, when you are being shot at by 20+ tons of weapons?

So it is Ok that 55 ton Mech is eliminated inside of 1.5s if this is Ok for your point of view then there is nothing to discuss.

I am not saying, 55 tonner should not be destroyed with 90 damage, what I am saying it should be destroyed inside 6-7s so at least it would have a chance to react.

Wub - 1.5s - Wub - Boom.....

In my opinion this is not Ok.

I am not writing this to complain about Griffin, I am doing this to people also with 5SS or Wubshee, I still think this is not Ok.

Edited by speleomaniac, 27 May 2015 - 04:23 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

LordBraxton, on 27 May 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Halving firepower\doubling armor might push the trend towards DPS builds, which isn't all bad. But in the end it just makes single primary weapons obsolete. Increasing cooldown time would only make this game even more of a max-alpha\peek-n-poke fest. The only solution is a totally new heat system. Double heatsinks ruined the balance in table-top... and they ruined the balance here... It's way too easy using DHS, to make a heat-neutral-massive-alpha build. That's what we have in MWO now, and it sucks. One more reason CB was better....

They should include a kind of "soft punishment" for excessive heat like in the TT. Movement reduction etc

[Joseph Mallan]

speleomaniac, on 27 May 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

So it is Ok that 55 ton Mech is eliminated inside of 1.5s if this is Ok for your point of view then there is nothing to discuss.

I am not saying, 55 tonner should not be destroyed with 90 damage, what I am saying it should be destroyed inside 6-7s so at least it would have a chance to react.

Wub - 1.5s - Wub - Boom.....

In my opinion this is not Ok.

I am not writing this to complain about Griffin, I am doing this to people also with 5SS or Wubshee, I still think this is not Ok.

If you are hit with enough damage Yes. You should die if you get hit with that much firepower that fast. Anything else is holding your hand. You are playing a fighting game where the objective is to smash your opponent to pieces. So Yes If I stick my head out and it legally gets shot off in 1.5 seconds... To bad for me. So your Opinion has been stated, so has mine. The Universe has balance life can continue to spin on.

[speleomaniac]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 May 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

If you are hit with enough damage Yes. You should die if you get hit with that much firepower that fast. Anything else is holding your hand. You are playing a fighting game where the objective is to smash your opponent to pieces. So Yes If I stick my head out and it legally gets shot off in 1.5 seconds... To bad for me. So your Opinion has been stated, so has mine. The Universe has balance life can continue to spin on.

Well the consequence of what you say is visible on queues.

%15 light
%15 medium
%50 heavies
%20 assaults

If you want a game that everybody runs 5SS - Timberwolves don't worry, we will come there.

[Ovion]

What we need is to:
1 - Average weapon damage over 5 seconds (TT values for damage we use are for over 10 seconds, with double armour and structure, we can go with 5 seconds)

2 - Bring back convergence.

[Nightmare1]

There's no need to double armor or halve damage. To be frank, I have no problem running my slow Hunchbacks or other slow Mechs. The current system forces everyone to use cover, which is more tactical than standing around in the open. The amount of firepower outputted makes people fight smarter (or not and then come whine on the forums). I like the current game build and see no reason to alter it.

As a side note, I do not normally play meta builds, and dabble in all four weight classes both on the Clan side and the IS side. I would say that I'm pretty well versed in this game, having been around for a long time now. There have been worse states of the game than what we have today. Rather than asking PGI to make more drastic changes (because that's worked out so well in the past, right? ) how about we just all accept the current game environment and adapt to it? I'm getting tired of all these "Flavor of the Month" metas and game environments brought about by the incessent nerfs and forum whining.

[DaZur]

speleomaniac, on 27 May 2015 - 04:46 AM, said:

Well the consequence of what you say is visible on queues.

%15 light
%15 medium
%50 heavies
%20 assaults

If you want a game that everybody runs 5SS - Timberwolves don't worry, we will come there.

Bullscheisse.

The queue composite is a result of the singular goal of "destroy all mechs"... If there was greater roll requirement through mission objectives the queue would naturally diffuse.

As is, absolutely... why bring a knife to a gun fight. Right now Heavies give players the biggest bang for the buck. Nature of the beast that protracted engagements does not fix.

[Weeny Machine]

speleomaniac, on 27 May 2015 - 04:46 AM, said:

Well the consequence of what you say is visible on queues.

%15 light
%15 medium
%50 heavies
%20 assaults

If you want a game that everybody runs 5SS - Timberwolves don't worry, we will come there.

I think the queue numbers don't lie. Sure, it is a combination of reasons why the heavy queue is that long being:
Heavies are...
- rivaling assaults in firepower
- nearly as nimble as mediums

Actually you have no real drawbacks PLUS:
- you take much longer to kill than a medium and have the other advantages mentioned above

So yes, it is a problem of a kind of weight category having too many pros BUT also it is a consequence of a low TTK

[Johnny Z]

Removing all piloting bonuses and trying it in test is worth a try. It would slow down the game a touch, make mechs show their wieght a bit more and reduce damage a bit.

How they would implement exp in place of this is the only question.

This idea has been put forward few times before and I really like it alot lately.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 May 2015 - 05:34 AM.