231 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

The True Space Pope, on 26 May 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Reasonable idea, like others have said what made the Timberwolf and Stormcrow so broken was ridiculously good agility and hitboxes, not necessarily their weapons or amount of armor.

It does also certainly seem more than a bit silly when a 55 ton mech is pretty much a better light mech than almost all light mechs in the game.

But wait, there's more!


The Black Lanner will have the same base agility as the Myth Lynx (travelling at 124 Kph natively, MASCing at 160 Kph) while being a 55 ton robot with a Jesus Box and 10 E hardpoints.

11.5 tons of pod space may sound bad for a 55 ton robot, but seeing as it's another light replacement, it's actually better off than most.



It's a candidate for Wave IV. Although, there's a solid half dozen Meds available, so it's unlikely. But, it would replace most of the fast lights as well (Hankyu aside, for the sake of being ~half the weight but still effective)



I'd prefer for positive quirks to be removed, rather than have negative quirks added. Of course, PGI has already made their decision.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

But wait, there's more!


The Black Lanner will have the same base agility as the Myth Lynx (travelling at 124 Kph natively, MASCing at 160 Kph) while being a 55 ton robot with a Jesus Box and 10 E hardpoints.

11.5 tons of pod space may sound bad for a 55 ton robot, but seeing as it's another light replacement, it's actually better off than most.



It's a candidate for Wave IV. Although, there's a solid half dozen Meds available, so it's unlikely. But, it would replace most of the fast lights as well (Hankyu aside, for the sake of being ~half the weight but still effective)



I'd prefer for positive quirks to be removed, rather than have negative quirks added. Of course, PGI has already made their decision.

RIP Clan light mechs, we loved you...sort of?

Edited by The True Space Pope, 26 May 2015 - 04:28 PM.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Sub-90? Without doubled basics, yes.

Doubled? No.


Need I remind you the Shadowhawk is at 108 degrees? Not 130. Not 150. Under 110. For a (previously) top tier 55 ton Medium that jumps.


~100 degrees seems reasonable.

That's the wrong 55 tonner to compare it to.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 26 May 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

I'm guilty of having my own opinion.

Ultimatum X, on 26 May 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

That's the wrong 55 tonner to compare it to.

The Griffin only has a 10% torso twist boost... yet it considered the most "agile" of the 55-ton mediums.

Lowering it to a 5% torso twist bonus wouldn't kill the bonus (or just removing the bonus outright).

[1453 R]

Ultimatum X, on 26 May 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

That's the wrong 55 tonner to compare it to.

[Very Good Point via pictures]

This is honestly a fantastic point to make. The SCR performs a role much more similar to the Griffin than to the Shadow Hawk, which has the strength of extremely high-mounted sniper ballistics (or energy, in greater count than the SCR). In terms of mixed energy/missile 55-tonners, the SCR and GRF are very closely related, and yet nobody has ever once suggested that the Griffin should lose a single point of twist arc.

Now, the SCR does have advantages over the GRF that necessitate some balancing work, but I'm thinking that somewhere between the painful not-twist of the Shadow Hawk and the 360-degree killbox of the GRF would be a good place to be. Like I said, 130 after double basics seems like a good place to start. That's a 26-degree total drop, which is feckin' huge as it stands. Cut those 26 degrees, leave it for a couple of months to let the changes soak in, then see if it needs more reduction.

Remember - we like mediums that are actually good. The medium class has been the most unloved of all the game pretty much since the game started. Do we really want to crazed-buttmurder any medium 'Mech that can fight well enough to change people's opinion of the weight class?

[bad arcade kitty]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 May 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Probably stems from long standing complaints of how Mediums have no role as they are slower and less agile than lights don't hit as hard as their heavier brethren. In other words, all mediums in the past have been "useless". Most 55 ton mediums on both sides (Clan and IS) have some significant twist buffs don't they?

it's just yet another 'nerf clans' thread, nothing really to see here

it definitely would help to clan lights if the only viable clan medium was nerfed again
god, it even sounds funny, but it gets some vocal support because 'nerf clans'

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 26 May 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm guilty of having my own opinion.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 26 May 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'M SORRY.

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

Anyhow, perhaps make the 55 tonner less agile than the 25, 30 and 35 tonners? Just a suggestion.

Edited by Mystere, 26 May 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[Mad Strike]

Engines.

[bad arcade kitty]

the problem of clan lights agility stems from their engine limitations
scr has a pretty large engine for its class while kfx and adr have pretty small

but i repeat again that the idea of helping lights by nerfing mediums is laughable
what kind of help is it, moral help?

[Mcgral18]

strikebrch, on 26 May 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Engines.

Engine don't impact torso yaw angle; PGI does.

[bad arcade kitty]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

Engine don't impact torso yaw angle; PGI does.

engines impact turn and twist rate, expert, phew

[Mcgral18]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

engines impact turn and twist rate, expert, phew

But not torso yaw, which is what I said.

Phew. Reading is hard.

[1453 R]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

engines impact turn and twist rate, expert, phew

Being fair, I don't see anyone suggesting negative twist rate adjustments. The proposal is for the removal of positive adjustments, bringing the Stormcrow down to the base agility a 55-tonner can expect out of a 330 engine. That's a reasonable request to make and one most folks generally back, even Stormcrow pilots.

[bad arcade kitty]

the angle is a minor characteristic comparing to the turn/twist rate

urbi has 360 degrees twist, so op, nerf pls

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 26 May 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

But not torso yaw, which is what I said.

Phew. Reading is hard.

Well, to be fair, the speed is adjustable for that as well. It's the actual values of the range (both pitch+yaw) can be adjusted.

This is kinda why I like the Gargles-A 8-omnipod set bonus... but at this point PGI isn't aware of the Warhawk-C's Right Torso structure bonus going to the Left Torso.

[bad arcade kitty]

1453 R, on 26 May 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Being fair, I don't see anyone suggesting negative twist rate adjustments. The proposal is for the removal of positive adjustments, bringing the Stormcrow down to the base agility a 55-tonner can expect out of a 330 engine. That's a reasonable request to make and one most folks generally back, even Stormcrow pilots.

i especially like when this yet another nerf request is passed like 'helping clan lights'

[CptGier]

The True Space Pope, on 26 May 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

RIP Clan light mechs, we loved you...sort of?

No, just RIP clans...

Really PGI never shoulda introduced them. Just put the game time line at like 3030 or something way before the CLans and added only IS vs IS. THen they could IS BIAS the game to bits.....

Edited by CptGier, 26 May 2015 - 05:00 PM.

[Mcgral18]

bad arcade kitty, on 26 May 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

i especially like when this yet another nerf request is passed like 'helping clan lights'

So, you feel the DoomCrow, a God Tier robot, should have a 25% positive quirk?

It's a debuff. It's not negative, it's neutral. It's a blank slate.

[Mystere]

1453 R, on 26 May 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

Being fair, I don't see anyone suggesting negative twist rate adjustments. The proposal is for the removal of positive adjustments, bringing the Stormcrow down to the base agility a 55-tonner can expect out of a 330 engine. That's a reasonable request to make and one most folks generally back, even Stormcrow pilots.

Sigh!

Mystere, on 25 May 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

How often does it need to be repeated that demanding 1-on-1 symmetric blance in an IP that is inherently asymmetric is nothing but a fool's errand?