912 replies to this topic

[Dino Might]

Dimento Graven, on 29 May 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

I totally agree with the sentiment, however, the quote is actually Robert A. Heinlein's character Lazarus Long, a guy who as I recollect, lived at least 10,000 years. If "I" had 10,000 years, yeah, I could learn all that too.

The reality is in a society as technologically complex as ours has become, specialization is the only way to be able to maintain it.

Yeah, I loved the Lazarus Long stories, except for the weird ****** fetish stuff...can tell that Heinlein went to the Naval Academy and was repressed for four years.

I think one of his main points was that while it's nice to have the technology, the level of specialization needed to maintain it does take something from us, and that character in particular has the mindset that once a society has need for ID cards, it's time to move on and start fresh. It has a certain appeal to it, and I like some of the ideas as long as they're taken with a grain of salt.

I think the big point is that if we're not careful while continuing on our present course, we will box ourselves into A Brave New World / caste system, and with that goes our humanity. No other creature is so well rounded and capable of so many things. It's a shame to waste all of that capability in pursuit of that extra ounce of productivity isolated to one particular field.

Sure, we can't do everything in a single lifetime, but we can still do a lot. Do something new every day and 10,000+ days is enough to have sampled a lot of life.

Edited by Dino Might, 29 May 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 29 May 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

The reality is in a society as technologically complex as ours has become, specialization is the only way to be able to maintain it.

That's a valid statement only while the lights are still on. Cut the power permanently and ...

[Milocinia]

So how's it going for that guy who blamed his daughter's friend's dog for hacking?

[Bill Lumbar]

Repasy, on 27 May 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

Wanna know what I think? I think PGI gave everyone FAIR WARNING after whatz-er-name, pudding or something, got banned. They released a detailed post describing how they were going to treat cheaters. At that time, any number of these people could have uninstalled their cheats, maybe even possibly have pleaded guilty directly to PGI. Naturally, none of these people came forth because they thought "PGI will never catch me, they only caught ONE PERSON so far."

It's like that DTOUR show Border Patrol. Every time that they suspect someone may be smuggling narcotics or other illegal imports in their luggage they give them one last shot. "Sir, before I open this bag to inspect it, is there anything you want to let me know first?"

These guys made no attempt at redemption after the warning post, so they got the banhammer.

As for this Bhael Fire dude:



I dunno man, when somebody gets caught cheating in a game the very first thing they typically do is tell their friends, family, and internet strangers " IT WASN'T ME!!!" It would be fairly easy to set up an alternate account as your "son's account" and go to haxtown, then feign ignorance when the alt gets caught and WHADAYAKNOW guilt by association so your main account is toast too. IF (BIIIIIG IIIIIF) his story is true, then I feel profound pity for his situation, but in that case he's gotta take responsibility for his son's stupidity, so again guilt by association. Like he himself said, the damage is already done. Anything he tries to say at this point doesn't matter anymore, because his credibility is KAPUT! It doesn't matter whose fault it is. KAPUT!

I agree with most of what you have said, BUT.... This is a game, we are talking about people cheating here, not being shook down by law enforcement or border patrols. Its not the same thing, and anyone with any bit of common sense, even if they aren't "riding dirty" knows to keep your mouth shut when questioned, if things go that path. They are not your friend, they are not looking to help you out, they are in fact looking to do their job, which is to find something to arrest you for, including using your own words to build evidence against you. Sorry, guilty, not guilty in the real world, you have the right to remain silent, which the fact is, it is in your best interest to do so when confronted with such things. No one is under any legal obligation to answer any questions, at anytime, unless they chose to do so, freely.

As for the cheaters and the ban hammer that has come down, I have my ex-s 15 year old living in my house with us and he has been allowed to play a little MWO on my account, and one he set up. However, given some of the things he pulls, I haven't allowed him to play in the last 6 months. I would seriously hope that PGI doesn't mistake any of the cheaters if they haven't cheated. I am guessing that the ones on the list are guilty as charged, and they need to be banned if they are in fact guilty of cheating. I have no sympathy for cheaters, never have never will.

IF one feels they must cheat to win at a game..... it might be time to take a step back and look at your life choices before proceeding. For the one that came forward and responded and gave some inside views on his cheating habits, Ummm yeah, that is great and all...but to say you got bored with the game and use that as a reason, well... If you really felt the need to use cheats, why not set up private matches with some of your buddies and have at it with them? Yah know in a private match....I am sure PGI wouldn't put the smack down on you guys for knocking your selves out in a private match using cheats...but to use them in normal game play... Ummmm I think maybe its time we should have that talk now? Didn't you guys get the memo?

[Kiiyor]

Bilbo, on 29 May 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Horrible saying in my opinion.

Great saying for the military though

[Ax2Grind]

It was disappointing to see many names on that list.

I like that CWI posted a statement against the cheaters found within their ranks. Santanico is still listed on the highest command structure of the Templars, and they seem to be hoping it's all been a mistake...that seems like a poor leadership choice.

For those skeptical of PGI's ability to find cheaters, a few of those banned have come clean about it on Reddit. PGI did indeed manage to find cheaters! How well, or how often it can be repeated in the future might be up for debate but at least we have confirmation from a few of the folks banned.

[Mazzyplz]

Ax2Grind, on 29 May 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

It was disappointing to see many names on that list.

I like that CWI posted a statement against the cheaters found within their ranks. Santanico is still listed on the highest command structure of the Templars, and they seem to be hoping it's all been a mistake...that seems like a poor leadership choice.

For those skeptical of PGI's ability to find cheaters, a few of those banned have come clean about it on Reddit. PGI did indeed manage to find cheaters! How well, or how often it can be repeated in the future might be up for debate but at least we have confirmation from a few of the folks banned.

could you link me to that reddit page?

[WazOfOz]

EXELENT !!! good job to Russ and the gang. @mazzyplz the OP has some links that you might be looking for

Edited by WazOfOz, 29 May 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Here is the Reddit link Mazzy...both Dasa and ilegion admit to cheating and answer questions, especially focusing on whether or not PGI will be able to continue to crack down on folks who use these types of programs and hacks.

http://www.reddit.co..._progress_russ/

Whatever you else you may think of it, it lends weight to the fact that PGI was able to root out cheaters in their sweep, and it undermines the arguments of those folks claiming that they are innocent.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 29 May 2015 - 10:00 PM.

[Cementi]

Ax2Grind, on 29 May 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

For those skeptical of PGI's ability to find cheaters, a few of those banned have come clean about it on Reddit. PGI did indeed manage to find cheaters! How well, or how often it can be repeated in the future might be up for debate but at least we have confirmation from a few of the folks banned.

I usually try and defend PGI for alot of things. However I still disagree with posting the names. There are too many variables and now that they are posted even if they made a mistake I doubt very much they will release an apology, management in almost any company hates to admit it made a mistake.

This game, which I greatly enjoy is full of coding holes. They struggle to get hit boxes right. Even when they do hit reg is often terrible. Content comes slow and when it shows it is unfinished for months. Sorry I understand and accept that CW is beta but beta usually comes with change. Other than constant quirks with the mechs, which has nothing to do with CW, there has been virtually no changes to CW since the initial "OMG cheese light rushes, lets slap some extra generators in and make some bigger hills for cover." There has been some behind the scenes changes with matchemaker and UI but nothing that impacts the actual gameplay of CW which many have felt as lackluster. Last fall there were some posts about them looking into ECM......nothing has been done but add even more weight classes with ECM (not crying about ECM it is easy to counter but I do think there are better ways to implement it). Turrets that have no chance to miss but simply lock in and do a full perfect burn on the weakest part of a mech every time......only reason they do that is because it was the easiest way to code them.

So ya a company that cannot get any of that right puts out a post saying they are 100% certain they were right with each and every case that they decided to name and shame. Something that is not allowed for players to do but is all right for them to do. So adding hipocracy to slow and sometimes shoddy coding really does not make me feel 100% confident that they were 100% right with every cheater they found.

Sorry, I usually refrain from straight up PGI bashing. I really do love this game even though I think there are major changes needed (Heat scale, ghost heat, offensive quirks, new game modes, PVE).

The smart thing would have been to put out the bans, contacting each player with why they were banned (fairly sure this was done), putting up a post saying they banned 64 accounts however (only if set on publishing names, still do not agree with that as it can negatively impact units associated with the individuals) state that names will not be released untill a full review is done. Maybe a week, let the players contact support and plead their cases. Yes cheaters should be punished but there could be extenuating circumstances, ie maybe someone has a crappy connection and is using a 3rd party program to somehow stabilize thier connection. Technically not allowed I believe as 3rd party programs are not allowed but does that really warrant a ban.

Also banning all accounts tied to one IP is completely idiotic as it is entirely likely that they are different people. Just because you cannot prove that does not mean you assume they were all guilty or all the same person. Reminds me of back in school when teachers tried to make the whole class stay in detention because some idiot decided to light a fire in the boys washroom. My answer to that was to simply push past the teacher and leave the room because it was confirmed that at the time of the fire I (and the majority of my class actually) were in the class room (amazing how that works). I cannot do that here but I can damn well promise that PGI will not be seeing any cash from me for a good while.

[Dimento Graven]

Cementi, on 30 May 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

I usually try and defend PGI for alot of things. However I still disagree with posting the names.

... (for brevity's sake, snipping it here)

You're entitled to your opinion. You stated it well, and very thoughtfully and did a wonderful job explaining your point of view.

However, respectfully, I completely disagree with you.

Absolutely cheaters should be named and shamed. As we have seen from the list there are SEVERAL cheaters who played in competitive leagues, placed high in PGI events, and generally were "high profile" for being "skilled".

These people SHOULD be exposed.

I believe that PGI EXTREMELY CAREFULLY considered each and every case, and that only those people that they could actually say with 100% confidence were banned. I believe that there is a much larger number of people they could only be 91%, 92%, 93%, et al, <100% that they have not banned, have not named, BUT, are putting under considerable scrutiny.

As for PGI not wanting to admit mistakes, I WOULD HOPE, that they have learned that for the health and trust of their community actually admitting mistakes and coming clean would actually BUILD more trust.

MOST of the community are reasonable adults, and we all understand that mistakes can be made, and when they are found, admitted to, and then corrected, it shows that PGI respects the community, and the over all response from the community will absolutely be more trust.

You absolutely have the right to withhold your hard earned monies from PGI if you disagree with their actions and stance on this matter, I respect you upholding your principles on the matter.

For me, it's just validated that I have made the right investment in this game, and encourages me to continue to do so.

[Catra Lanis]

Dimento Graven, on 29 May 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

I said 'rebuild' not 'create'... There's whole level of engineering involved in designing and building an IC engine from scratch.

RE-building one already built however, from what I know of both (and I admit I know more about regedit than I do about IC engines... well, I know lawn mower engines fairly well actually and have rebuilt one or two in my years), they require equal levels of reading comprehension and technical aptitude.

I'd never disparage my mechanic, nor my IT guy, for not knowing how to do the other's job.

HOWEVER, I would get kind of pissed if either refused to frickin' google a simple question...

But you can learn the basics in areas of interest. You don't need to spend your life getting a Phd in thermodynamics, materials, structural engineering and dynamics in order to grasp how a ICE works (that is reserved for those that want to design one) on a conceptual level and do some basic work on it. You don't need a Phd in computer science to configure your PC. The problem is that people won't even learn the basics. You can be an expert in one or two areas, a journeyman in a few and understand the basics in a lot.

People are using complexity as an excuse when they can't be bothered to even try.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 30 May 2015 - 01:56 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Well I am in a joyful mood over this. Three of the banned I had issues with. One in particular ranked on me hard every match in chat. Justice!

Going to buy something in game now I think. Thanks PGI, Been waiting a long time.

[9thDeathscream]

Man who needs to go to the cinema with this thread. Its been awesome!!!!!!!

[Anjian]

Correction:

Only their avatars and aliases are exposed and shamed. But their REAL LIFE identities are not.

So the only thing lost is their virtual game reputation. NOT their REAL LIFE reputations.

I certainly has no problem with that.

[Insects]

Cementi, on 30 May 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

, ie maybe someone has a crappy connection and is using a 3rd party program to somehow stabilize thier connection. Technically not allowed I believe as 3rd party programs are not allowed but does that really warrant a ban.
.

Russ made a statement in big font that the bans are ONLY for wallhacks and aimbots. These are not confused with some ping reducer. Obviously people will try and downplay it and say they just modified come sound files or played with making the game look more beautiful or messed with files to try and fix a bug etc, but that is not what the "cheater" tag bans are for.

So far as we know it is a single program which has been targeted, according to one of the banned PGI slipped a detector in with the patch and snared a number of people before the cheat devs plugged the security hole. This program costs money and has a single purpose which is to cheat, it is impossible to accidentally use it.

If a detection tool picked up its signature then how much is there to argue? The reports will be there in the database, no defense really short of taking it to a real court and having experts analyze PGI's detection tool for bugs which could have made its report wrong.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Anjian, on 30 May 2015 - 03:00 AM, said:

Correction:

Only their avatars and aliases are exposed and shamed. But their REAL LIFE identities are not.

So the only thing lost is their virtual game reputation. NOT their REAL LIFE reputations.

I certainly has no problem with that.

Would be nice if their real life reputations were affected. If you can cheat in a stupid game how will it be when it comes to real life. Was told one of those banned who harassed the hell out of me last year was a cop. Wonder if he applied the same tactic to his reports. Not a stretch to think so.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dimento Graven, on 29 May 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

I totally agree with the sentiment, however, the quote is actually Robert A. Heinlein's character Lazarus Long, a guy who as I recollect, lived at least 10,000 years. If "I" had 10,000 years, yeah, I could learn all that too.

The reality is in a society as technologically complex as ours has become, specialization is the only way to be able to maintain it.

Not really. Having some specialists is a good thing, but knowing a little about a lot... is better

[Parnage Winters]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 May 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Would be nice if their real life reputations were affected. If you can cheat in a stupid game how will it be when it comes to real life. Was told one of those banned who harassed the hell out of me last year was a cop. Wonder if he applied the same tactic to his reports. Not a stretch to think so.

You see there is a line, between "this guy is a jerk on the internet lets tell everyone about "SuPaKiLLA" and his idiocy and Bob from Montana is an ******* on the internet. Don't be so eager to cross that line because you think you know someone because of how they acted or what they did in a ******* game. That can quickly lead to things like Bob from Montana was fired from his job because a bunch of ******** teenagers called his place of work over him cheating in a game. Or Bob having a tactical response unit called to his home because he called you a mean word on the internet.

Don't cross that line, you should know better.

Edited by Parnage, 30 May 2015 - 03:52 AM.

[KharnZor]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 May 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Would be nice if their real life reputations were affected. If you can cheat in a stupid game how will it be when it comes to real life. Was told one of those banned who harassed the hell out of me last year was a cop. Wonder if he applied the same tactic to his reports. Not a stretch to think so.

Going too far is a thing you know. So just stop and be a normal human being for once