912 replies to this topic

[Mudhutwarrior]

KharnZor, on 30 May 2015 - 04:10 AM, said:

Going too far is a thing you know. So just stop and be a normal human being for once

It was a nice thought is all You know how much crap I took from a few of them. One in particular.

I remember being told i was "a baddie and should just quit" many times from one of those jokers. Frauds be frauds here on the net and in real life.

[Johnny Z]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 May 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

It was a nice thought is all You know how much crap I took from a few of them. One in particular.

I remember being told i was "a baddie and should just quit" many times from one of those jokers. Frauds be frauds here on the net and in real life.

Ignore the trolls. Tell it like it is. lol

[Satan n stuff]

bad arcade kitty, on 29 May 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

why do you hate my streak builds so much... were you in the place of the butterfly :3

seriously though, they already asked you to stop that off topic about my builds in random threads...

I don't hate your streak builds, I just think they're useless and you're clueless because you seem to think they're actually good. In this case it is relevant because if you actually were using an aimbot you'd have chosen weapons that can actually be, you know, aimed.

Could you please cut it out with the weak reply without quoting crap? To me that looks like you just want to cut the discussion short because you have nothing left to say.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 30 May 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Bill Lumbar, on 29 May 2015 - 07:01 PM, said:

I agree with most of what you have said, BUT.... This is a game, we are talking about people cheating here, not being shook down by law enforcement or border patrols. Its not the same thing, and anyone with any bit of common sense, even if they aren't "riding dirty" knows to keep your mouth shut when questioned, if things go that path. They are not your friend, they are not looking to help you out, they are in fact looking to do their job, which is to find something to arrest you for, including using your own words to build evidence against you. Sorry, guilty, not guilty in the real world, you have the right to remain silent, which the fact is, it is in your best interest to do so when confronted with such things. No one is under any legal obligation to answer any questions, at anytime, unless they chose to do so, freely.

As for the cheaters and the ban hammer that has come down, I have my ex-s 15 year old living in my house with us and he has been allowed to play a little MWO on my account, and one he set up. However, given some of the things he pulls, I haven't allowed him to play in the last 6 months. I would seriously hope that PGI doesn't mistake any of the cheaters if they haven't cheated. I am guessing that the ones on the list are guilty as charged, and they need to be banned if they are in fact guilty of cheating. I have no sympathy for cheaters, never have never will.

IF one feels they must cheat to win at a game..... it might be time to take a step back and look at your life choices before proceeding. For the one that came forward and responded and gave some inside views on his cheating habits, Ummm yeah, that is great and all...but to say you got bored with the game and use that as a reason, well... If you really felt the need to use cheats, why not set up private matches with some of your buddies and have at it with them? Yah know in a private match....I am sure PGI wouldn't put the smack down on you guys for knocking your selves out in a private match using cheats...but to use them in normal game play... Ummmm I think maybe its time we should have that talk now? Didn't you guys get the memo?

LOL!!! Are you freaking kidding me??? So you're saying that when you're trying to smuggle narcotics across the border and they take you aside to check your luggage, that it's smarter to remain silent? They are checking your luggage one way or the other, and believe me they WILL find whatever you were trying to hide, whether it's pot or coke or usb drives full of whatever sick #### people like to view nowadays, and if you feigned innocence or ignorance THEY WILL COME DOWN HARDER ON YOU. How is it in your BEST INTERESTS to stay silent at that point? It doesn't matter if you stay silent all the way up to your hearing, you are being charged with a crime and going to jail. You're getting charged regardless, but if you fully cooperate they may give you a lighter sentence.

Hey, the smartest thing to do is to not 'ride dirty', isn't it? Anyone with 'common sense' knows to NOT be riding dirty or getting involved in anything illegal, and as such they have nothing they need to hide, right? If they are asked questions, they should answer immediately, truthfully, and cooperatively, because ya those people are just trying to do their job, and if you cooperate you make the process go a whole lot more smoothly. If you don't cooperate (I mean why tha #### would you not cooperate, do u have problems with authority or something bro?), they will do a full search because WHADAYAKNOW now they think you're hiding something! They are NOT out to find something to arrest you for... they don't have a 'quota' for #### like that. All they are trying to do is PROTECT THE BEST INTERESTS OF THEIR HOME AND COUNTRY BY RESTRICTING CONTRABAND & OTHER ILLEGAL ####. They ARE just doing their job. So just let them.

Back to cheating, I'm sorry to say but I have no sympathy for cheaters OR their guardians. It's pretty childish for parents to believe they don't need to take responsibility for their child's behaviour when they aren't LEGALLY adult yet. It sounds like you HAVE taken responsibility for your child, and that's good. Bhael Fire probably didn't take responsibility (or was engaged in cheating as well ), and thus good riddance. I was brought up to not cheat & steal & pirate everything I want, so I guess my parents did good on passing along integrity and strong morals. If Bhael Fire IS innocent, maybe Bhael Fire's kid will feel bad now for getting her father's account banned, maybe this will teach an important lesson: When you do bad ####, the #### comes down on everyone around you.

EDIT:

Ha! or maybe she doesn't feel bad at all. MAYBE it was intentional to be caught. I still have misgivings about parents playing as much video games as their children, I don't think it passes along good behaviours. Depending on how much gaming the parent does, it's a pretty neglectful and irresponsible thing to do...

Edited by Repasy, 30 May 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[Cementi]

joelmuzz, on 30 May 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

Russ made a statement in big font that the bans are ONLY for wallhacks and aimbots. These are not confused with some ping reducer. Obviously people will try and downplay it and say they just modified come sound files or played with making the game look more beautiful or messed with files to try and fix a bug etc, but that is not what the "cheater" tag bans are for.

So far as we know it is a single program which has been targeted, according to one of the banned PGI slipped a detector in with the patch and snared a number of people before the cheat devs plugged the security hole. This program costs money and has a single purpose which is to cheat, it is impossible to accidentally use it.

If a detection tool picked up its signature then how much is there to argue? The reports will be there in the database, no defense really short of taking it to a real court and having experts analyze PGI's detection tool for bugs which could have made its report wrong.

Actually we do not know that. What we do know is that someone in a position of authority has made that claim and sadly my faith in pretty much any company for honesty and integrity is pretty much zero. I am not saying that they are lying but naming the guilty parties without releasing the details on what they did and how they were caught does not invoke my trust. I guess I have just been jaded by being a shop steward and seeing all the shady stuff companies pull to try and justify their actions that deep down I do not trust any of them.

[Cementi]

Just to respond to Repassy without a wall of text quote.

The point is that the individual may have been unaware that their child was cheating till they were informed the other account was caught cheating so all accounts from this ip were banned. At that point the child in question could have admited it and very likely is being punished by the parent.

This does not make the person a bad parent, nor does a parent playing video games as much or more than a child. Everyone has hobbies and it is amazing how many idiots out there dismiss playing video games as a hobby. If the parent played lots of golf that would be fine.....but video games.....must be a bad parent *eye roll*.

To relate it to your comments of drug trafficing *eye roll*, which you seem to know alot about (then again you could be blowing smoke as I know nothing about it), what you are saying is that it is justice for a parent to be locked away because a child was caught trafficing even when it has been proved that the parent could not have known what was going on and for all intents and purposes seemed to be a good parent giving the proverbial no drugs kind of talks.

No different than a child being caught cheating at a video game with their own account and then banning the parents account along with it.

Simple question, for either of those senarios. Is that justice? Yes or no only..........there is only one answer though.

[Mawai]

cdlord, on 29 May 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Rule #1 is we do not talk about specific hacks.
Rule #2 is we do not talk about specific hacks.

Rule #3? Russ mentioned the ban was on folks using wallhacks and aimbots ... defining those terms should be perfectly acceptable.

wallhack ... a 3rd party computer program that compromises the client to display information available on the client that is not normally available to the user

aimbot ... a 3rd party computer program that compromises the client to assist in aiming

Do these programs exist? Yes ... Russ said so ... so it must be true. He would not ban folks from playing the game over non-existent 3rd party programs.

These programs are detectable and you will be caught ... that pretty much comprises all you need to know

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Johnny Z, on 30 May 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

Ignore the trolls.

Aww thats no fun

Satan n stuff, on 30 May 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

In this case it is relevant because if you actually were using an aimbot you'd have chosen weapons that can actually be, you know, aimed.

roflmao

[Ax2Grind]

Cementi, on 30 May 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Actually we do not know that. What we do know is that someone in a position of authority has made that claim and sadly my faith in pretty much any company for honesty and integrity is pretty much zero. I am not saying that they are lying but naming the guilty parties without releasing the details on what they did and how they were caught does not invoke my trust. I guess I have just been jaded by being a shop steward and seeing all the shady stuff companies pull to try and justify their actions that deep down I do not trust any of them.

Actually we do know that. We not only have it from Russ speaking directly to why they banned folks...we have it from some of the banned folks saying this is exactly why they were banned! I guess you could decide the banned folks are in on a conspiracy with Russ...but that seems like a long stretch of the imagination if you ask me. No matter how much PGI has blurred the boundary of trust in the past, this action seems fairly straightforward and long overdue. I think it's fair to ask how confident PGI is of their results, but we have actual proof that they found cheaters and banned them. Clearly they did something right. We have no proof so far of a single mistake or that Russ was disingenuous about the reasons for the ban. The evidence so far supports PGI.

[Abisha]

Mawai, on 30 May 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

Rule #3? Russ mentioned the ban was on folks using wallhacks and aimbots ... defining those terms should be perfectly acceptable.

wallhack ... a 3rd party computer program that compromises the client to display information available on the client that is not normally available to the user

aimbot ... a 3rd party computer program that compromises the client to assist in aiming

Do these programs exist? Yes ... Russ said so ... so it must be true. He would not ban folks from playing the game over non-existent 3rd party programs.

These programs are detectable and you will be caught ... that pretty much comprises all you need to know

hmm if you say so, i not see any 3e party program launching when i start MWO like popular MMO games have "hackshield" for instance.

so i wonder how exactly they based their "prove" on.

only thing they done right is releasing names with the ban list mostly you just read we banned x amount of people for "cheating" and never see any prove or names.

Edited by Abisha, 30 May 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[Burktross]

Abisha, on 30 May 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

hmm if you say so, i not see any 3e party program launching when i start MWO like popular MMO games have "hackshield" for instance.

so i wonder how exactly they based their "prove" on.

only thing they done right is releasing names with the ban list mostly you just read we banned x amount of people for "cheating" and never see any prove or names.

Because PGI wants to destroy long time, high paying members' accounts because PGI hates income.

[NocturnalBeast]

Cementi, on 30 May 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Actually we do not know that. What we do know is that someone in a position of authority has made that claim and sadly my faith in pretty much any company for honesty and integrity is pretty much zero. I am not saying that they are lying but naming the guilty parties without releasing the details on what they did and how they were caught does not invoke my trust. I guess I have just been jaded by being a shop steward and seeing all the shady stuff companies pull to try and justify their actions that deep down I do not trust any of them.

Ping reducers aka proxy servers are supported by PGI. PGI even helps some proxy services to set up profies. The high ping since the server move is not PGI, or the players fault it is the result of greedy ISPs trying to cut corners.

Also, PGI did not release players names, they released pilot names, no personal information was revealed.

Edited by Ed Steele, 30 May 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[KharnZor]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 May 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

It was a nice thought is all You know how much crap I took from a few of them. One in particular.

I remember being told i was "a baddie and should just quit" many times from one of those jokers. Frauds be frauds here on the net and in real life.

Nice thought or not your post could be put up as the poster child for why PGI shouldn't publish ban lists

[Dimento Graven]

KharnZor, on 30 May 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

Nice thought or not your post could be put up as the poster child for why PGI shouldn't publish ban lists

Totally disagree with the hysteria around it.

PGI isn't publishing REAL names with REAL addresses.

Crimany, PGI isn't even putting in the email address associated with the "pilot" names, it's STRICTLY pilot names only.

So... Y'know, NO REAL HARM is possible, unless the cheater is stupid enough to identify themselves in the real world...

[KharnZor]

Dimento Graven, on 30 May 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Totally disagree with the hysteria around it.

PGI isn't publishing REAL names with REAL addresses.

Crimany, PGI isn't even putting in the email address associated with the "pilot" names, it's STRICTLY pilot names only.

So... Y'know, NO REAL HARM is possible, unless the cheater is stupid enough to identify themselves in the real world...

ok. i'll leave it at that.

[nehebkau]

MORE BANS!
MORE BANS!

MORE BANS!

MORE BANS!





(I have a jerkish delight in seeing other people get whats coming to them)

Edited by nehebkau, 30 May 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[SuomiWarder]

PGI doesn't need to post "proof" of cheating. Unless they get sued by a banned person for fraud because that person spent money on a game they have been banned from. Then they need to show the judge - which I presume they feel they can do if forced to. Otherwise I doubt they would take the chance.

I am a parent. If I let my teen or pre-teen play games on my account I accept responsibility for their actions. I am clear with them not to do anything that would compromise my account and/or be immoral. If they drive a car into a mail box as the adult I am responsible for the damages - not the kid.

Edited by SuomiWarder, 30 May 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[ROSS-128]

As far as "my brother's cousin's uncle's grandma's step-nephew's dog did it" excuses go, the fact of the matter is PGI can't break into your home and see who is using the computer at the moment the cheat is detected.

This leaves them two options for anti-cheat enforcement:

1: only ban the specific account that was cheating at the time. In a free-to-play game, this amounts to pointless whack-a-mole. A cheater could easily just roll another account, and won't even lose anything if they were using a disposable alt to cheat in the first place. This would result in their bans amounting to a limp slap on the wrist.

2: Ban every account associated with that machine, e-mail address, and/or credit card (if they have payment information on file). This kind of ban is more likely to be successful in actually booting the cheater out of the game, since it significantly raises the time, effort, and money they would have to sink to evade the ban. But it also means if you let someone else cheat on your computer or your account, the hammer is coming down on you too.

Similarly at the account level, PGI has no way of knowing who was logged into the account when a cheat was detected. The only thing they can do is ban the account. So even if the excuse is true, it won't fly because if we gave a pass to everyone who said their dog did it, the enforcement policy would be worthless. Don't cheat, and don't let cheaters use your account. In fact, as a rule of thumb nobody should be using your account but you. You screw that up, it's your fault.

Of course, 99% of the time when someone says "it wasn't me, I was hacked!" or "it was my wife/brother/sister/daughter/son/cousin/grandma/dog!", they're lying through their teeth anyway.

[jackal40]

E Rommel, on 30 May 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

As far as "my brother's cousin's uncle's grandma's step-nephew's dog did it" excuses go, the fact of the matter is PGI can't break into your home and see who is using the computer at the moment the cheat is detected.

This leaves them two options for anti-cheat enforcement:

1: only ban the specific account that was cheating at the time. In a free-to-play game, this amounts to pointless whack-a-mole. A cheater could easily just roll another account, and won't even lose anything if they were using a disposable alt to cheat in the first place. This would result in their bans amounting to a limp slap on the wrist.

2: Ban every account associated with that machine, e-mail address, and/or credit card (if they have payment information on file). This kind of ban is more likely to be successful in actually booting the cheater out of the game, since it significantly raises the time, effort, and money they would have to sink to evade the ban. But it also means if you let someone else cheat on your computer or your account, the hammer is coming down on you too.

Similarly at the account level, PGI has no way of knowing who was logged into the account when a cheat was detected. The only thing they can do is ban the account. So even if the excuse is true, it won't fly because if we gave a pass to everyone who said their dog did it, the enforcement policy would be worthless. Don't cheat, and don't let cheaters use your account. In fact, as a rule of thumb nobody should be using your account but you. You screw that up, it's your fault.

Of course, 99% of the time when someone says "it wasn't me, I was hacked!" or "it was my wife/brother/sister/daughter/son/cousin/grandma/dog!", they're lying through their teeth anyway.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Also, this should help discourage casual cheating/experimenting with cheats as the risk is greater than the reward.

As a side note, I hope those of you requesting videos or explanations of how PGI caught these cheaters realize just how foolish these requests are. ToC aside, you have no reason to ask for such information. If you don't trust PGI to make informed decisions in terms of catching and dealing with cheaters, how is anything the say or show you going to improve your trust.

Frankly - I consider these requests coming from an individual who is also cheating and worried about getting caught, or in league with those who write such software. That's just my opinion, yours may vary.

[GrimRiver]

I've never cheated in any game since I started playing videogames back 1998, but I've used in game glitchs in single player games to get hidden stuff. I have always hated cheaters in MM games and I will always report them on sight without warning because they ruin everybodies fun and shouldn't be allowed to exist.