387 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

I occasionally boat lurms but don't ask for locks for several reasons. First, if they are going to do it they will do it without asking. Second, it can be a bit annoying and I try not to do the tings to others that annoy me.

Last, some of my mechs I kite lurm which means LOS and within 400m. With these builds I can run out of 1620 missiles easily. This type of lurm play takes skill. Don't believe me? Try it.

[GenghisJr]

People should lock for their own benefit, it shows you which component to shoot first. If someone then lock's the target for lrms's so much the better.
You also get a saviour kill when the target has one of your team locked, everyone should be locked onto something always and we would all have so much more GXP.

[Ollorin]

I still find it funny how some people will refuse to lock, just to spite lurmers and then claim that LRM builds contribute nothing to the fight. Tell me again how this is contributing nothing?

[Cementi]

First off an LRM player asking someone to remember to hold locks is not nesesarily a leech. I do not often play LRM mechs but when I do I have no trouble keeping up with the group and am perfectly content to use tag to get my own locks. It is very rare for me to not find a home for my missles in a match. I know people say they are easily countered but with a little smart play and a manuverable mech you can still bring the rain. Not to mention the fact that simple suppresion has value. If the opponent is forced to dive for cover rather than take your missles to the face then that means you know where they are and your allies can potentially flank or isolate small groups. That has value that is not shown on the score sheet. To bad most players cannot see anything other than the Kill and damage columns.

However having said that having someone else lock a target so that I can chip in on damage when I do not have line of sight is free damage. Something I could not do with direct fire weapons. You do not have to put yourself at risk to do it. Simply lock the target so that LRM mechs can support you. You should be doing it anyway as it tells you the loadout of a mech and where the weakest points on his armor are. Honestly even without LRM support the player who does not lock targets is the true waste of a player slot. It gives info to your team which is always usefull.

So lock targets, it helps you. It helps your team mates. There is absolutely no reason to not lock a target unless your an epeen douchebag who is worried his world will come to an end if someone else gets the kill.

[Novakaine]

Forgot to post these gems.
And a surprisingly flesh toned hand
#LurmThis.

Edited by Novakaine, 01 June 2015 - 05:30 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Gladewolf, on 01 June 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

As someone that has been known to throw down a few LRMs, I'll tell you exactly why it's annoying to have someone beg for locks.
1. It's tone-deaf the level of ECM we find in matches these days.
2. Where the **** is your tag?
3. It's tone-deaf to the fact that the guy constantly breaking lock is risking his machine, using cover and in no mood to get killed over someone else's total team dependency issues.
4. You are pretty much telling your teammates that you have 0 intention of ever exposing your mech.

1. Yes, and we could start 500 threads on the broken magic box of crutches and how and why it needs fundamental changes.
2. When you find an energy slot on a Catapult A1, let me know. As for other mechs, sometimes it's better to have a backup weapon or two when they are left behind for the lights to kill then complained at because they were no help when someone finally screamed for LRMs. LRMs are a specialty weapon thanks to ECM and AMS among other things and a huge pile of nerfs they are a specialty weapon.
3. Teamwork is for suckers I guess.
4. Well DUH! No smart player exposes his mech needlessly, and an LRMboat is an ammo can that ideally should never be seen by the enemy, and yet can still rack up (when the matchmaker is favorable) a decent game. Problem is those decent games are few and far between thanks to the jerks like the OP talks about acting like someone peed on his pie just for having the audacity enough to want to be different.

Plus too many people do not see the support LRMs could do because it's not sexy and obvious. Just like good blocking isn't obvious in football so they think it doesn't matter and when it does matter, we get kvetching about stoopidLRMnoobzwhoosuk.

So learn to be a team player, and realize that LRM mech is a force amplifier for you if it wasn't so friggen broken due to incessant whine poisoning by ignorant players who wanna be rambo and demand that to be the only way to play the game cuz it's too hard to learn to use cover or think three-dimensionally.

Edited by Kjudoon, 01 June 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[operatorZ]

MischiefSC, on 30 May 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

LRMs were never designed for fire support and in a MOBA FPS it's a crap mechanic. Even in ARMA it would be a terrible mechanic in a straight moba setup, though again apples to oranges - a mortar is not a weapon but a static weapon in a location and GLs are as direct fire as SRMs are. They have a bit of an arc but they work, in many ways, like I think LRMs should work.

LRMs should be a direct fire weapon. Give them a bit of an arc, sure. Faster travel time as well.

Indirect fire in a game like MW:O however is bad. One of the real strengths of MW:O vs other FPS/MOBA games is the tactical complexity it has the potential for. Indirect fire skews that and strongly rewards bad habits. The 'deathball' is the most primitive and simplistic aspect of it but more firepower concentrated on fewer targets is the ideal situation. LRM boats are trying to play the role of field artillery; the problem is that in truth all they're doing is robbing your team of 1 of its 12 fighting units. You want to create static Long Tom or Arrow IV positions that have to be, in some way, 'manned' that's awesome. I'd be all for it.

LRMs however are not somehow more destructive than other weapon loadouts. Playing an LRM boat largely involves you NOT being part of the firing line. That's no big deal - if you're a light or striker medium. Honestly I don't have an issue with a LRM Treb as a given rule. The 'Horse Archer' concept as it doesn't take a full fighting mech off the line. Still functionally inferior to direct fire but at least it's not hamstringing its team.

A heavy/assault LRM boat however is pulling 65, 80, even 100 tons off its firing line in order to do slightly *less* damage than it would from the firing line but take*no* damage from enemy fire - so long as its teammates eat the fire that it would have to keep targets. Also that the other team is bad enough to not counter the LRMs.

Indirect fire as its place. Spent hours this morning in ARMA 3 WLA and having a *blast* by taking a factory, creating 2 Scorcher mobile arty and 2 Sandstorm MLRS then going covert, sneaking behind enemy lines and calling in the explosive rain. Also found out that you can take an airport, build a Wipeout CAS aircraft and put an NPC in it who I can then direct to specific targets. Like the gift that keeps on giving.

That's not MW:O though. It's a large battlefield with expendable and fungible units in deployment. MW:O is a 12 v 12 MOBA and a indirect fire LRM setup functions, quite literally, by one guy sacrificing his team to try and get himself a better score. The whole team would do better if he put that tonnage into direct fire unless the other team is bad; in which case they'd still be winning with direct fire. In MW:O it's a crap mechanic.

I knew if I kept reading you might come along to say all that needs to be said on this topic. +1

[Chuck Jager]

My favorite I when people complain about all the ECM, and the other team has 1, but nobody locks their targets.

If I am in my storm crow or a light hunter and go after a target, I sometimes do not lock the target so that 2/3 of my team does not drop what they are doing.

[Imperius]

Yup, I always count my LRM potatoes and try to use them as cover while I actually kill mechs and shoot things without having to have my hand held.

[Codestar]

Some fools in this thread.

Locking target and calling for rain is advantageous to both you and the team. Working with what you have is part of the fun in the PUG queue!

A good LRM player can hold enemy team hunkered down in cover while your team uses the tactical advantage to encroach on their location. A bad LRM player is still going to do 300+ damage.

Mad dog LRM60 + artemis + TC + 4sl can move with the deathball and when it is out of LRMS is still agile enough to do further damage and help the team. LRM60 hurts! Usual damage per match with this build 500 - 900 with 3 or more kills.

I am not usually an LRM player and do dislike matches with excessive LRM builds on both team restricting the ability to brawl out of cover. This was one of my builds whilst mastering the Mad dog.

Letting the team know you are there with LRM's is good practice. If I don't know you are there with LRM then I won't call for rain and will not be trying to hold the locks longer than usual.

Fools I was referring to were on the first page of this thread.

Cheers

Codestar

[Jeffrey Wilder]

I have come across players that just wouldn't lock and complain that the whole team wasn't supporting him.

How the hell am I suppose to know what non ecm mech is killing him when he doesn't even lock at all?

[Gladewolf]

1. Agreed,
2. If every lrm boat were an A1, that excuse would fly. Mounting all gear needed to make effective use of a weapon system should be a priority....or don't use it. I also doubt you have backup weapons on your A1.....hey maybe that's a terrible chassis? Staying within the same zip code as the rest of your team might also help you with light problems....I do support builds with back-up weapons.....which is why i'll take my C1 vs your A1 everyday of the week.
3. Teamwork is important, Understanding that they are your teammates and not simply tools for you to throw away in the pursuit of locks, is good team work.
4. If you have no locks.....then guess what? You might have to move out of your hidey hole and light up your own targets instead of waiting until your entire team is dead. If you can't even see what's happening....how do you even know if locks are available?

[Lyoto Machida]

Here's a good one from the past...me and a unitmate both in 1-Vs, making people angry (the other two Kuritans weren't in group with us).

Shooting LRMs from long range is a fool's errand...it's all about 250-400m direct fire and self tagging. But then again, you may as well bring direct fire weapons nowadays if you're going to do that.

Ollorin, on 01 June 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

I still find it funny how some people will refuse to lock, just to spite lurmers and then claim that LRM builds contribute nothing to the fight. Tell me again how this is contributing nothing?

You're not contributing because you're not using direct fire weapons.

Am I doing it right?

[Richard Hazen]

I dunno I'm grateful when I receive some fire support from lrms, it makes the enemy make moves they wouldn't normally do, I don't mind not getting the killing blow either, I'm usually relieved I've survived lol, it's all about winning.

[Kjudoon]

Gladewolf, on 02 June 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

2. If every lrm boat were an A1, that excuse would fly. Mounting all gear needed to make effective use of a weapon system should be a priority....or don't use it. I also doubt you have backup weapons on your A1.....hey maybe that's a terrible chassis? Staying within the same zip code as the rest of your team might also help you with light problems....I do support builds with back-up weapons.....which is why i'll take my C1 vs your A1 everyday of the week.

Did you know LRMs is one of the only weapon systems that is functional when you have an underpowered computer with low FPS. Of course, if your goal is to drive out those filthy undeserving players because they don't have higher end computers... I guess this is a good attitude to defend and propogate.

As for backup weapons on an A1, I used to run it with 20-30LRMs and 8-12SRMs Nice little backup weapon.

You have no moral or logical authority to tell people how to build their mechs, the same way no one has that right to do it to you too. If you don't what people bring, I guess you should stick to playing with a unit that drops only 12mans and tells all players what to bring and how to play. They're out there, you'll have no problem finding it and the gameplay, if this is your problem with pugs, will probably be more to your liking.

BTW, thanks to whiners the CPLT kinda sucks right now. Bad hit boxes, bad weaponry loadouts since it's LRM focused and everyone knows PGI wants under 100m direct fire engagements of derpyderp brawtardery.

Such is the life of the deposed king of the battlefield as it were when it came out... dethroned by a mob of knaves.

[Johny Rocket]

Maybe just maybe the more experienced that read this will spread it to pug.

Don't remind locks say, "in trouble-lock and call ID" or "Lck n ID 4 hlp"

This is offering not asking, if they don't call for you, well lets hope that they had a good game.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I thnk most of this comes from LRM mechs that are ONLY lrms...no support weapons...not even a tag...nothing....

My "worst" lrm mech has 2 lrm 20s, 2 streaks tag and a medium laser....My best one? 2 clan Er large 3 lrm15's tag and its own narc...it is a force to be reckoned with. I make my builds so I CAN spot my own stuff...with the speed at least that of a fast-ish assault so ic an keep up with the fatties, and either streaks, medium lasers or both as short range weapons so i can at least add some firepower to would be killer light mechs....

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is seeing someone with a DDC crammed full of LRMS and has nothing but a machine gun and one medium laser in an ATLAS for short range defence. THOSE are the types of drivers that give people who run FIRE SUPPORT mechs a bad name. When i pack missiles I bring the pain, I single out ecm mechs, Tag and narc if im packing it and drop the hammer on any direwhales i see, or any mechs I see my light mechs tagging so they actually get EXP for that. THAT is how you pack missiles....not standing in the back pressing R.

[El Bandito]

As MWO's life-time lurmer, I say with utter conviction that HBK-4J's LRM quirks need to be nerfed.

Same deal with WVR-6R's AC5 quirks, from my dakkaing experience.


As for the hate for LRM users, I profit from all the salts and tears of noobs.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 June 2015 - 07:38 PM.

[Gladewolf]

Really going to try to play a high horse card while telling people they should sit in a hole with their LRM mechs?! I guess moral authority only applies to tactics huh? I never once mentioned low FPS players.....which is another separate issue. Kudos to you for being one of the players that DOES bring secondary weapons.....but let's not pretend it's ever a good idea not to on the grounds of some imagined "moral authority".

[JC Daxion]

Shredhead, on 29 May 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

"LRMs here hold locks" is the sign of a bad player. It is not my duty to hold any locks.

Actually, the sign of a bad player is not holding them... Every time i am on a great team, people hold locks, and mulitple.. WHY???

so the team knows where people are, and who to target.. That is why... I wan't people to hold locks no mater what type of weapon i have so i know where targets are, and what part of their armor is open...