117 replies to this topic

[BellatorMonk]

I am able to LRM Boat as always and experience the same wins and losses as any match using any other mech. I would say 8 out 10 match I sh!t out my share of damage for the team 400-1k points win or loss. The other matches are ROFL stomps as any match can go.

I know for a fact in most matches I am contributing as I can see the mechs I suppress, damage or kill with LRMs affect the match.

The overall secret to LRM boating is have a secondary non-LRM weapon combo that can do at least 15-20 pts of damage per alpha so if you do get singled out, you can defend or fight back at less than 200m.

[SuomiWarder]

Yeah, when I have a streak of bad luck and need a mental boost I jump in my 3xLRM 15 Battlemaster. Usually I then have 1 bad game out of 4 where I couldn't blow stuff up but often I get 2+ kills and lost of c-bills. Too bad the thing isn't a champion or hero.

[Roadkill]

Responding out of order to your points...

Jman5, on 30 May 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

btw you can't really cross compare weapons from the stat sheet because accuracy efficiency stat on lasers is bogus. if you brush a mech for 0.1 damage it counts as a 100% hit even if you miss the rest of the beam duration. missiles and ballistics on the other hand are individually tracked.

For missiles "hit" is calculated for each missile so of course your damage is going to be 1.0 (that's how much damage 1 missile does).

You can if you do the weapon efficiency calculation like I showed you. My calculation takes into account the fact that you don't always do full damage with a laser by using actual damage done instead of potential damage done in the calculation. My CERLL, for example, only averages 59.20% of potential damage per hit, while my CLRM-5s do 97.28% of potential damage per hit. You then multiply that number by your accuracy (~90% and ~48% respectively for me) to get an even lower number that represents your weapon efficiency - how much actual damage you land on an enemy per shot taken. For me, I'm 53.63% efficient with the CERLL but only 46.82% efficient with the LRM-5.

Note that my calculation also factors in the extra damage done by crits, because that's reported in your stats.

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Well this is unfair. Bandito attributes my success with LRMs to my mech, you attribute my success to my pilot skill. So my results are meaningless? Does this mean we have to throw out anything EMP or SJR players say because they are good pilots playing quirked mechs?

Bandito is also right. Your results in the 4J are at least partially due to its extreme quirks - no other Mech can get that kind of performance out of an LRM-10.

As for your last point, no not at all. The best players are the ones who have tried everything and know how all of the mechs and all of the weapons perform. But ask yourself this: how often do you see EMP and SJR using LRMs in comp matches? Does that not tell you something? The LRM isn't a good weapon because the best players essentially never use it when they need to perform.

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Look at the end of the day the two biggest advantages of LRMs are the damage over time combined with the ability to fire from cover. I don't have to tell you all how many super-alphas are flying around. Exposed mechs get obliterated fast. You can out trade almost other weapon system because you can often fire from almost total safety. Hit efficiency is much less important when the enemy can't hit you back.

LRMs don't have particularly good damage over time, but yes their ability to indirect fire is one of their main advantages. It takes some skill to use it well, but that's more positioning than anything else.

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So clearly you can consistently succeed with a non LRM-quirked mech.

I never said (or meant to imply) that you couldn't. My results in an LRM Mech aren't as good as yours, but that's because I'm not as good of a player as you. In both of our cases, our success with LRMs isn't because LRMs are good, it's because we're both good players and know how to make the best use of the few things that LRMs can do reasonably well.

So again, you getting top score isn't because LRMs are good, it's because you are good. You doing crazy good consistently in a 4J is because both you and the 4J's quirks are good.

I'd bet, though, that you're generally better with other loadouts than you are with missile Mechs. But that's tough to compare.

[Jman5]

I feel like these LRM discussions are a lost cause so I'm just going to keep doing what I do and stop trying to advocate. I have always been a strong believer in the fact that people unnecessarily box themselves in when it comes to mech and weapon choice. It's just frustrating to see people complain about how boring the meta is, but refuse to consider other options.

If you're open to trying different stuff, I believe the LRM platform is just as viable as any other option. I say this as someone who plays them at all levels: solo queue, group queue, competitive, and community warfare. You can see my scores in a non-quirked LRM-assault as a proof of concept; that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. However, If you want to play it safe and follow the meta you can't go wrong there either. The established meta is definitely powerful and well built.

I really don't care what people play as long as it gets result. I just wish I could convince people that YOU HAVE OPTIONS.

[LordNothing]

i have not ran missiles in months. in fact i sold many of my launchers, keeping 2 of every 15 and 20 and 4 of every 5 or 10, and of 41 mechs, i dont think any are currently equipped with lrms.

i have however been using a lot of srms in their place. however i started leveling mad dogs and i dont think i could forgive myself if i dont do at least a few all missile runs with those.

[627]

did this weekend challenge with lurm boats because my notebook can't handle mwo well and all i got here is LTE for internet, so ping is nearly 200.

I used my lurmcrab, lurm atlas and for the most part the hunchback. What to say, good rounds and bad rounds but i only had 1 or 2 matches witch didn't qualify. with the hunchback and a good (or better "fitting my playstyle") team you can get 800-1000 damage in no time. Have someone narc targets and its gg mostly.

on the other hand, on the wrong map and good ecm cover you're mostly screwed.

Interesting thing i noticed, there are many people with AMS out there, more than I expected. Maybe it is the elo bracket, but at least people are concerned enough about lurms that they bring ams. even saw a double AMS panther

Edited by 627, 31 May 2015 - 09:59 AM.

[Tyler Durden]

I play LRM boats frequently. During CB it was much easier to maintain the locks since ECM wasn't common. These days, you need to be really close to the action most of the time for your missiles to hit before the target disappears.

Sure, I will use someone else's lock, but I prefer to hunt for my own food. My Catapult C1 does this very well. With 2 LRM15s + Artemis, TAG and 3 medium lasers, it is a nimble support mech. Prior to the ubiquity of ECM, I could snag 2 or 3 kills. These days, I feel lucky if I can kill one. That isn't to say I don't do much damage, but keeping a lock long enough to kill the mech is the challenge, the C1 is my go to missile boat and I have loved it since day one.

Moving on to the Kintaro 18, this guy has a different flavor of boating. With 5 LRM 5s and a couple of medium lasers to keep it useful when the ammo bins run dry, this mech needs to maintain its own locks and stay in close to be truly effective. Maintaining the LRM rainbow is no easy feat, but when I do, I almost feel sorry for the other guy. But then I look at the rainbow effect, marvel at the glory and my pity turns to unfettered delight; I am akin to a baby with a mobile floating over his head, screeching with joy. With no TAG, this mech can be feast or famine.

Finally, the KGC-0000 quad LRM-15 with 2 medium pulse lasers. This is a whole different boat. It almost always needs someone else to lock a target for you since it is so slow. Facing down your own targets with this guy could mean you will be focus fired and dead in seconds, so your role in this mech is to make it rain when they get the locks. When it works, the heaps of pain you wash over the poor guy caught in the rain are a delight to watch (if only you could see the poor SOB). They fire so fast as to blind the guy and it all happens so fast, their armor is in shreds in a few salvos. Without Artemis and a direct view, it takes more rounds to finish the mech due to missile spread. I can usually kill between two to three mechs with the King. All of this is not to say that I can't get my own locks. When the battle is in full swing and I start stomping in closer to the OPFOR, I try to maintain 200-400 meter range and melt the guy in front of me. It is hilarious to watch. I get called a noob for using LRMs, but what does it say about the guy who stared down my LRM boat and got killed by it? Can't call me a lazy noskillz lock moocher. I caught you and melted you without laser vomit or ultra dakka.

In summary, there are different LRM strategies for different mechs, feast or famine depending upon level of ECM on the field, bring TAG, Artemis and Target Decay module to be most effective. Mobility in a boat can make you a hunter rather than a "locks plz" moocher, but some boats need the team to provide the locks, such as the king. As a team member with boats in your team, just remember that they usually soften the target for you to take the kill and usually provide a psychological weapon, making the OPFOR run for cover.

[Weeny Machine]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

A boat no.

My Zeus and King Crab have an LRM15, and my Hellslinger 3 LRM5s (so a rapid fire LRM15). They help out when I'm far away from the enemy and lets me sprinkle some pain while I move closer.

That's called "Urinal tactic", Jospeh

[Joseph Mallan]

Bush Hopper, on 31 May 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

That's called "Urinal tactic", Jospeh

There is no call for this.

I mop up most of teh time!

[AccessTime]

IMO you guys are doing it all wrong, "Boating" only works if 1) you know what you are doing, and 2) your enemy doesn't. Once you get to a point where (2) is generally true, it becomes very frustrating to play any kind of boat b'cos you are basically just a sitting duck waiting for an opportunist sniper (or even a wolfpack of lights, if those still exist) to take advantage of you. When it comes down to it, a boat takes forever to move into position to bypass cover; either you are dead or your enemy has moved by the time you can get into a decent firing position. My best LRM mechs, nothing heavier than a quickdraw, nothing slower than 81 speed (minus speed tweek), and always with jump jets. The meta in the higher elo means that few mechs are using LRMs, and hence even fewer AMS; 4xLRM5, 3xLRM10 can be fine if you are willing to settle for a unit that is more of a 'damage over time' support once the melee actually starts, rather than a 'boat' that is going to overwhelm them with fire before they can effectively respond. And the real value of a unit like this isn't necessarily the damage that it does, but that by spreading your fire over multiple targets and other techniques, the enemy will respond in ways that the rest of your team can capitalize on.

Even in lower elo units with speed have lots of utility since most of these guys can't hit a target out in the open with a high rate rate of lateral movement very easily. But the advantage of being able to deliver reasonably accurate fire while moving like this quickly evaporates once you are faced with more competent opponents.

An above post mentioned the catapult and kintaro which today I avoid just b'cos of the awful vulnerability to fire that these mechs have. I honestly wish they would fix the iconic catapult, but it's probably wishful thinking, they're more interested in delivering new content than revisiting the old.

Edited by AccessTime, 31 May 2015 - 07:30 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Yes and then I got Bog for map 3 times in a row and said f-that. Then I piloted a quad UAC-10 DWolf.

[Johny Rocket]

Don't know if you can call what I do boating. I never run just lrms and with my 2nd group I usually strive for an equal punch. But 3/4 of my mechs sport lrms.

Just picked up a Trebuchet 7M today 3x ml 2x lrm15, the quirks give a 40% cooldown buff. Not real keen on the ml short range but 4th match I managed 2 kills 5 assists 495 dmg on Mining Collective, could have been better but I wandered to close to the defense turrets and got pinched between a missile turret and a MDD spamming clrms.

The lrm rain has been a bit heavy this weekend, funny how "lrms suck" but every other swinging Richard brings them.

[Templar Dane]

I like my LRM king crab even if I get insulted for it.

2X ALRM20
6x MG
2x LPL

STD 325

The game plan is to ravage the enemy team from the back, then late game go dapperjager on them.

[Hidden Sniper]

I have in my catapult I've named crapapult. Two lrm15s and four medium lasers. I usually try and stay 200-400m away from the targets, I find the lrms work MUCH better the closer they have to travel. Too far away and they don't usually hit anything, and too close is no good either. I put the medium lasers on chainfire on one group and do a bit of brawling with my team staying again, about 300m from targets. Lasers on chainfire gives you close to 5 DPS and once the last one is out the first one is ready again (if you got it elited), and you can freely fire missles away at that range as well. Max armor helps too. I usually get good success doing this.

Edited by Hidden Sniper, 31 May 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[AccessTime]

Tractor Joe, on 31 May 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

The lrm rain has been a bit heavy this weekend, funny how "lrms suck" but every other swinging Richard brings them.

It's b'cos people are just looking for their easy 30 match score to get the challenge points. Just load up a LRM boat, play aggressively and get your missiles off (even to the point of suicide), and repeat.

lordtzar, on 31 May 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

I like my LRM king crab even if I get insulted for it.

2X ALRM20
6x MG
2x LPL

I tried this when they first came out but the real problem for me was I could not see my own missiles on the ascent due to the low cockpit window. Once you get used to this, it was just the slow speed. The 6MG are very funny though, more than once on the swamp map I walked up to the side of a cliff, lowered my arms and machine gunned a guy to death over the course of 15 seconds while he wondered where the fire was coming from.

[Johny Rocket]

AccessTime, on 31 May 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

It's b'cos people are just looking for their easy 30 match score to get the challenge points. Just load up a LRM boat, play aggressively and get your missiles off (even to the point of suicide), and repeat.

I play lrms quite aggressively all the time but must admit when it comes to competition grinding I bring out the Misery(no missiles), its my P2W easymode option. Plus, I just really enjoy watching other players **** their pants while trying to remember where reverse is.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 31 May 2015 - 08:02 AM.

[sycocys]

Allistar, It actually surprised me to see you piloting LRMs the couple times I dropped against you recently.

You do do far better than most players in that setting as well.


For me, I just started clam mechs at the last event so I had a couple of them rigged up 50/50 with lrms and brawling. Not technically boating I guess. They work better with clams than IS (especially in a CW setting), but if you use them as a brawling weapon opposed to a long range weapon they always function better. It did alright I guess, wasn't really anything special and required more work for less output than just using straight brawling builds.

All being said, I still switched most of the mechs back to srms simply because they are a far better platform to deliver damage from.

[Deathlike]

Jman5, on 30 May 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

I feel like these LRM discussions are a lost cause so I'm just going to keep doing what I do and stop trying to advocate. I have always been a strong believer in the fact that people unnecessarily box themselves in when it comes to mech and weapon choice. It's just frustrating to see people complain about how boring the meta is, but refuse to consider other options.

If you're open to trying different stuff, I believe the LRM platform is just as viable as any other option. I say this as someone who plays them at all levels: solo queue, group queue, competitive, and community warfare. You can see my scores in a non-quirked LRM-assault as a proof of concept; that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. However, If you want to play it safe and follow the meta you can't go wrong there either. The established meta is definitely powerful and well built.

I really don't care what people play as long as it gets result. I just wish I could convince people that YOU HAVE OPTIONS.

I think the level of skill required to run LRMs at the highest tiers is very hard... especially when combined with just running a Hunchback in general.

You may feel like this is doable, but I believe you are primarily the exception than the rule.

The thing is that 4J is probably "out of whack" compared to popular LRM boat alternatives, but not OP in the same breath.

There's so much that has to be accomplished at different levels for missiles that the average player won't be able to capitalize it in the same way direct fire platforms would accomplish.

The Risk-Reward + Learning Curve for LRMs is literally not in the same sector as even the most inferior of weapons... like LBX and Flamers. So... I doubt this would ever resonate with other people unless LRM mechanics change in general.

[Johny Rocket]

AccessTime, on 31 May 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

An above post mentioned the catapult and kintaro which today I avoid just b'cos of the awful vulnerability to fire that these mechs have. I honestly wish they would fix the iconic catapult, but it's probably wishful thinking, they're more interested in delivering new content than revisiting the old.

What? Kintaros can take a severe beating even running an xl, I own a fair number of IS mediums and place it at the top of the heap in this regard. Not to mention it makes up for its lack of JJs by being able to climb like a mountain goat and the screen shake it causes limits return fire nicely.

[Alistair Winter]

Tyler Durden, on 31 May 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

Finally, the KGC-0000 quad LRM-15 with 2 medium pulse lasers. This is a whole different boat. It almost always needs someone else to lock a target for you since it is so slow. Facing down your own targets with this guy could mean you will be focus fired and dead in seconds, so your role in this mech is to make it rain when they get the locks. When it works, the heaps of pain you wash over the poor guy caught in the rain are a delight to watch (if only you could see the poor SOB). They fire so fast as to blind the guy and it all happens so fast, their armor is in shreds in a few salvos. Without Artemis and a direct view, it takes more rounds to finish the mech due to missile spread. I can usually kill between two to three mechs with the King. All of this is not to say that I can't get my own locks. When the battle is in full swing and I start stomping in closer to the OPFOR, I try to maintain 200-400 meter range and melt the guy in front of me. It is hilarious to watch. I get called a noob for using LRMs, but what does it say about the guy who stared down my LRM boat and got killed by it? Can't call me a lazy noskillz lock moocher. I caught you and melted you without laser vomit or ultra dakka.

Even as someone who does play an LRM boat from time to time, I have no problem admitting that sometimes you can get a good score just by sitting in safety and lobbing missiles over the hill, while your team does all the work. And you'll get the odd match where you do 500-1000 dmg, without really putting yourself at risk or doing anything that required skill.

However, if you're consistently getting a high score, several kills on average and winning most of your matches over time, then obviously you're somewhat skilled. And if you personally got into position to stare down an enemy and kill them with LRMs, they have no right to complain. It's not the same as getting killed by LRMs on Caustic Valley, because their team didn't have ECM and one of your teammates put the UAV over their head. At that point, the LRM boat didn't really do the work, he just clicked the fire button.

By the way, I didn't realize the King Crab has so many missile tubes! Not only does it have a lot more hardpoint than the Atlas, it also has more tubes. #powercreep

sycocys, on 31 May 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Allistar, It actually surprised me to see you piloting LRMs the couple times I dropped against you recently.
You do do far better than most players in that setting as well.

Thanks! Did you play with that account or an alt account? I don't recall seeing you in-game. I may just have been absent-minded.