384 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 May 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

-snip-

http://imgur.com/a/iGK07

I agree

[Kilo 40]

Serpieri, on 29 May 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

That's the Point.

your point is that every weapon in the game is a "Point Click Damage Delivered" weapon?

well ok then...

[TLBFestus]

I understand the current "hate" on for laser builds, much as it's been fore PPC, Gauss, etc over the time this game has been around.

The meta keeps changing....

However, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I ahve always been an energy weapon player. Always. Since the original MW computer game, and all its iterations, I have always been an energy kinda guy. I think for myself it has always been that that fact I can never run out of ammo that appealed to me. It just makes more sense to me.

my builds have always been energy centric regardless of what is popular. With the exception of the PPC in MWO which I've never really warmed up to, lasers are my go to weapon regardless of whether they are in favor or not.

So cut some of us some slack...we were using lasers back when missles and ballistics were the meta.

[Elizander]

The biggest problem I have with lasers is HSR. It's just not a viable option for those with unstable ping or high ping.

[LordKnightFandragon]

TLBFestus, on 29 May 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

I understand the current "hate" on for laser builds, much as it's been fore PPC, Gauss, etc over the time this game has been around.

The meta keeps changing....

However, I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I ahve always been an energy weapon player. Always. Since the original MW computer game, and all its iterations, I have always been an energy kinda guy. I think for myself it has always been that that fact I can never run out of ammo that appealed to me. It just makes more sense to me.

my builds have always been energy centric regardless of what is popular. With the exception of the PPC in MWO which I've never really warmed up to, lasers are my go to weapon regardless of whether they are in favor or not.

So cut some of us some slack...we were using lasers back when missles and ballistics were the meta.

Basically players hate every build cuz every build causes damage and every build can kill them. I personally find Dual Gauss builds ********....the 2 heat, 30dmg near hitscan speeds....but meh. So, no matter what, all builds will be hated, every meta will be despised.....no point in endlessly nerfing this and buffing that because of players hating it...that is never going to end. Nerf lasers, the next meta will net the same kinda of hatred....

[Gattsus]

Xetelian, on 29 May 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

Back during the PPFLD meta with ACs and PPCs and even back in the jump sniper era I said lasers are what they're pushing us towards.

Now we have a laservomit meta. Which I don't mind because I can at least spread that damage.

LRMs aren't meta, never will they be meta and they aren't good enough to worry about.

Remember the 3 lurmaggedons we had!!!! It could ALWAYS be the next meta.

[CocoaJin]

Thunder Child, on 29 May 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

The problem is, Field Artillery should also be a viable role. Otherwise, what will the Arrow IV and Longtom (if we ever get them) be classed as..... Unless we get no minimum Range on the Arrow, in which case it becomes the SRM 25.

The real issue is that the Field Artillery players lock themselves into a corner, because Indirect Lurms cannot work without a lock. Hence the need to turn them into a Grenade Launcher style mechanic, to add "skill" back into the mix.

Field artillery could be a viable role...for field artillery. The thing is, strategic weapons should never be crammed into a tactical setting. Unless the game and combat environment is scaled for and designed from the ground up to have a strategic element, such things as field artillery shouldn't be allowed.

In the meantime, players shouldnt disadvantage themselves and the team by trying to be something they are ill equipped to perform effectively and/or unable to contribute properly to their team as.

Edited by CocoaJin, 30 May 2015 - 10:42 AM.

[Thunder Child]

Tell that to the C3 Catapult, the Naga, the IS version of the Naga, any mech that stock, carried an Arrow or Artillery piece. They should be viable in CW. But they aren't, because CW is just a slightly bigger Arena Deathmatch.

And what about LRM mechs that are actually designed as Missile Support Platforms? I get that most LRM buckets should be geared more for Everything else first, LRMs third. Or maybe fourth. But some Chassis are meant to be sit and lob.

[Timicon]

I never understood people's objection to the LRM. It is as perfectly a valid weapon as the AC/2, medium pulse lasers or, for that matter, the Stream SRMs (just to name but a few weapon systems). Sure, they do not require much skill, but in a full-blown engagement, any and all weapon that you and/or your team brings onto the battlefield can mean the difference between a battle won or a battle lost.

And honestly, the amount of times that I see people complaining about the LRM system and then going ahead and using LRM-boat 'Mechs in the next drop match leaves me scratching my head and wondering just what the hell some people think...

Yes, I use LRMs as one of my primary weapons and I am damned proud of them. They have saved me and my team from certain defeat in drop matches countless times and I would rather go on a battlefield fielding some kind of LRM weapon (even if it is only the LRM 5) over autocannons or the gauss cannon for the simple reason that you at least hit your targets (even just with splash damage) than wasting countless AC shells on a wall or straight into the dirt, when firing against an opponent.

[Thunder Child]

Sorry. Not trying to argue the battlefield effectiveness of Role Warfare in this game. My point is, some builds should be capable of being Heavy Artillery. And if LRMs were better designed, and used a Grenade Trajectory system, instead of a Lock On system, they could do that, without being completely shafted by ECM.

The weapon system would then have a huge Skill Ceiling for players able to grenade effectively, meaning a good boat would be a useful addition for digging people out of entrenched positions. Instead, we have what we have.

[Nightshade24]

Gattsus, on 29 May 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

Remember the 3 lurmaggedons we had!!!! It could ALWAYS be the next meta.

And in those 3 lurmaggedons, it wasn't meta. in 1 of the lermogeddons people stuck with 4-6 ppc's.
The other one it was duel ppc + gauss.
Before that it was what was it... Jenners with 6 medium lasers? if we are taking about the first lermogedon being around like closed beta era.


Anyway, Meta players NEVER accept missiles as meta

Closest this has been was Clan players using SRM mechs for generator rush as the accuracy issue is gone for that.

[Sarlic]

These HBR LPL only vomit are the worst. Before that the Timby and the Vomcrow.

As expected it would move to HBRs

Edited by Sarlic, 30 May 2015 - 01:54 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Thunder Child, on 29 May 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

Sorry. Not trying to argue the battlefield effectiveness of Role Warfare in this game. My point is, some builds should be capable of being Heavy Artillery. And if LRMs were better designed, and used a Grenade Trajectory system, instead of a Lock On system, they could do that, without being completely shafted by ECM.

The weapon system would then have a huge Skill Ceiling for players able to grenade effectively, meaning a good boat would be a useful addition for digging people out of entrenched positions. Instead, we have what we have.

The weapon already has a huge skill ceiling so to say...

The "LRM's" of MW:O is like the soldier of TF2.

The soldier is a character that most new people gravitate to, it's pretty strait forward, after you get past the first learning curve/ step to how to rocket jump, you basicly can compete very well in the game.

This is like MW: O's LRM's, as soon as you learned how to lock on target and kinda stick with your team your are set to do something in the game that's more then 150 damage per game.

However, there is a very distant learning curve for LRM's in the distance, it's more of a cliff then a curve.

This involves in MW: O but not limited to...
Leading your target with guided missiles.
Situation awareness: know your enemy, his speed, enemy ecm location, ams hot spots, etc.
Using LRM's to find enemies by seeing there AMS fire at it. (dumb firing)
Dumb firing LRM's accurately (this works very well and fits what you said)
Team work with pugs and friends.
Situational awareness and map knowledge (for eg: "Enemy is in Northern west corner of G2 on bla bla map, can I hit him with LRM's or is he under cover?")

so many high skill things with LRM's. The skill goes mainly with the situational awareness and surroundings then direct firing. but it IS still skill. Look at the lore, htere are clans (ie clan goliath scorpion) who nearly never use guided missiles due to it being a "no skill weapon", Meanwhile there are people in lore who thinks it's a lot of issues and skill involved.


What you describe could be the possible new weapons that CAN be added to MW: O. this includes the Long Tom, Mech Mortar, etc. which are essentially howitzers or mortars that can not be hit by AMS from memory for obvious reasons.

Long Tom was infamous for being a high skill weapon. in MW: LL it is the only game people ever use it because of the UI helping them a lot while in MW4 this literally involves 100% memorization of t he map and the altitude of all areas as well as the drop of the weapon. Which only lunatics like me would even consider using it.

it can't be used for brawling either because the splash damage was large enough that hitting someone at 200 meters would damage you.

etc

Elizander, on 29 May 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

The biggest problem I have with lasers is HSR. It's just not a viable option for those with unstable ping or high ping.

I got 240 ping average and I got no problems with lasers.

[Wrathful Scythe]

In the current state LRMs are most likely the most difficult weapon to handle, just because you can't lock up to targets long enough. TAG destroys the purpose of having LRMs because you need to face your enemy and NARC ist countered by ECM except you hit all ECM mechs in the vicinity.
With the addition of yet more and more ECM mechs, the problem with LRM mechs and their inability to lock up on targets with ECM is clearly shining through. Also, LRMs are only effective if your enemy does a mistake e.g. walk in the open and not having cover near by. You rely on your enemy that he does not know how to counter LRMs because lets be honest: LRMs can be easily avoided on most maps (caustic is still LRM heaven without ECM mechs).

[zortesh]

I like lrms because I can narc things, stand behind cover, and then twist to the side and alpha my missiles just before the lock breaks to fire around corners from complete safety.

I personally think theres some skill to doing that, especially hunting down every one of those filthy goat hugging ecm mechs and force feeding them wifi.

Honestly nothing is quite so satisfying as narcing 3 ecm mechs from my warhawk and laughing as the sky rains down on people that thought they were totally safe.

They hate lrms for 2 reasons.
1: they don't know how to use cover.
2: there stuck on a team without the aggression to charge and mop up with ease.

[Savage Wolf]

This game has slowly but steadily devolved towards cattering to people who only have one skill: aiming. Anything else has been pushed out of the game or the meta.

• LRMs are useless because people didn't want a weapon that didn't include aiming to be useful.
  
• No modes where destroying the entire enemy team wasn't the most effective.
  
• Strategy has been tuned down until it was just about deathballs.
  
• Everytime a tactic that included anything but aiming at CT it was nerfed into the ground.
  
• ECM was introduced to removed the bothersome information warfare,
  
• Role warfare was never introduced.

There was a time back in closed beta when we saw the game as the thinking man's shooter and an alternative to COD. Now the only difference between COD and MWO is the time to kill and movement.
Thinking is not part of MWO, only aiming skill.

[General Solo]

If most players spray and pray lasers, why nerf?
Perhaps for the sake of variety I guess.

[Aresye]

Skill exists.

It's why players like TwinkieOverlord, Heimdelight, and JagerXII manage to outperform everybody else.

Players like them were the top when dual gauss K2s were the meta, they were the top when PPCs/AC5s were the meta, and they are STILL at the top now that lasers are the meta.

If all these metas are always "no-skill," and, "easy to do," then why are the same players always at the top? Why do they always win matches? Why do they always do absurd damage and kills?

After the most recent nerf patch, guess who the top players are now? SAME ONES!

People need to seriously stop complaining. These players are just flat out better than you, and even if you devolved the game all the way down to nothing but flamers, they would STILL kick your butts. All you end up doing is making the game more frustrating for everybody else.

[Satan n stuff]

Aresye Kerensky, on 30 May 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

Skill exists.

It's why players like TwinkieOverlord, Heimdelight, and JagerXII manage to outperform everybody else.

Players like them were the top when dual gauss K2s were the meta, they were the top when PPCs/AC5s were the meta, and they are STILL at the top now that lasers are the meta.

If all these metas are always "no-skill," and, "easy to do," then why are the same players always at the top? Why do they always win matches? Why do they always do absurd damage and kills?

After the most recent nerf patch, guess who the top players are now? SAME ONES!

People need to seriously stop complaining. These players are just flat out better than you, and even if you devolved the game all the way down to nothing but flamers, they would STILL kick your butts. All you end up doing is making the game more frustrating for everybody else.

^Completely missed the point.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 30 May 2015 - 01:33 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Satan n stuff, on 30 May 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

^Completely missed the point.

So... how long shall we wait until you explain the point then? Or shall we just ignore this utterly irrelevant and empty comment that adds nothing to the discussion other than you feeling superior for no good reason?