124 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Anyone else think it is time for a little boost to Assault Jump Jets? I mean, the Executioner has 8 tons of JJs locked in, and you REALLY have to try to jump an appreciable height (as we know from the Highlander, and this will be worse because it is 5 tons heavier). I mean, I think the timing is perfect..

I'm not talking a landslide buff, just a little faster thrust and more height. 8 tons is no trivial tonnage investment.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 01 June 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 June 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Anyone else think it is time for a little boost to Assault Jump Jets? I mean, the Executioner has 8 tons of JJs locked in, and you REALLY have to try to jump an appreciable height (as we know from the Highlander, and this will be worse because it is 5 tons heavier). I mean, I think the timing is perfect..

I'm not talking a landslide buff, just a little faster thrust and more height. 8 tons is no trivial tonnage investment.

I twitterbashed Russ about this when Wave III went on sale. He then "tested" DWF-S and declared "Working as intended", which is why I never got Wave III. I was pretty specific about the bad terrain handling of the Grasshopper and Gargoyle (which in fairness after I brought it up, he did admit was wrong and fixed) and the crappy JJs of the HGN, I just couldn't trust the mech to have the mobility it needed to make up for a very low level of firepower for a 95 ton mech.

[Deathlike]

Lowlander is low.

Sincerely,
Hoverjets™

[SgtMagor]

speaking of the Ex, wonder when we get to see a preview.

[Khobai]

Quote

He then "tested" DWF-S and declared "Working as intended"

Ok but that only has 3 jumpjets.

The problem is the diminishing returns on jumpjets.

Based on this chart, for an assault to jump twice as high as a Daishi with 3 jumpjets it would need 10 friggin jumpjets... lol.

Edited by Khobai, 01 June 2015 - 05:27 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Problem i have is the height is a lie you can only use 50% of you fuel before you have to worry about losing 3% of your mechs armor on your legs.

They can make them slow and bad at poptarting but the height needs buffed on all mechs.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 01 June 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[MechaBattler]

I think the concern is that it would give Assaults, with all their firepower and armor, too much mobility and the potential for jump sniping.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think the concern is that it would give Assaults, with all their firepower and armor, too much mobility and the potential for jump sniping.

The problem isnt the height the Dire Wolf jumps with 3 jumpjets. Thats understandable.

The problem is the height the Gladiator/Highlander jump in comparison. In the case of the Heavy Metal it has almost twice as many jumpjets as the Daishi but barely jumps any higher.

When youre paying 2 tons per jumpjet you should not get zinged that hard by diminishing returns.


IF ANYTHING jumpjets should have reversed diminishing returns. The first 1-2 jumpjets should be really weak. And each additional jumpjet should get progressively stronger. That would prevent abusing the system by taking only 1-2 jumpjets and encourage players to take more jumpjets or even the max jumpjets. That would make so much more sense...

The same logic should apply to clan targeting computers. The higher level computers should be better per tonnage than the lower level computers. Instead of the level 1 computer being the most efficient in terms of gain per tonnage.

Edited by Khobai, 01 June 2015 - 05:32 PM.

[TheArisen]

Khobai, on 01 June 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

The problem isnt the height the Dire Wolf jumps with 3 jumpjets. Thats understandable.

The problem is the height the Gladiator/Highlander jump in comparison. In the case of the Heavy Metal it has almost twice as many jumpjets as the Daishi but barely jumps any higher.

When youre paying 2 tons per jumpjet you should not get zinged that hard by diminishing returns.


IF ANYTHING jumpjets should have reversed diminishing returns. The first 1-2 jumpjets should be really weak. And each additional jumpjet should get progressively stronger. That would prevent abusing the system by taking only 1-2 jumpjets and encourage players to take more jumpjets or even the max jumpjets. That would make so much more sense...

The same logic should apply to clan targeting computers. The higher level computers should be better per tonnage than the lower level computers. Instead of the level 1 computer being the most efficient in terms of gain per tonnage.

Can I like this more than once?

[1453 R]

Settle down, Kyocera. In case you don't remember, the forum outrage over the Evil Poptart Meta was at least an order of magnitude worse than the current kerfuffle over laservomit. It was pretty easily to the point where they had to do something to fix it. The something, as it turned out, was kill jump jets, which we all hate now, but at the time people were cheering in the streets.

That said... jump jets in general need better acceleration, and Class I jets in particular need some serious help. I'm honestly surprised anyone bothered with the Whale-S; three jets on a hundred-tonner is as close to an honest waste of tonnage as you're ever likely to see. The MWLL thing where you jump ten or twelve 'Mech heights in the air on a set of orbital rockets is too much, but a four-jet 'Mech should be able to get from the bottom of a gully in Canyon Network to the top of it without shenanigans and having to recharge in the middle. The vertical mobility on jets is awful, and fixing the poptart issues with increased vertical mobility is as dirt-simple easy as having jump shake decay after the jets let off, rather than switching off like a light. Or, hell - even just have it wait an extra second or so before it shuts off like a light.

Seriously, Piranha. WTB better jump jets. Would pay more for next 'Mech pack if it came with better jump jets.

[Khobai]

Quote

Settle down, Kyocera. In case you don't remember, the forum outrage over the Evil Poptart Meta was at least an order of magnitude worse than the current kerfuffle over laservomit. It was pretty easily to the point where they had to do something to fix it.

The real problem behind poptarting wasnt jumpjet height though. It was perfect convergence and pinpoint aiming; specifically with regard to PPCs and Gauss. And those weapons were nerfed so they couldnt be used in unison anymore.

They need to increase jumpjet height for assaults AND fix hill climbing so assaults without jumpjets arnt thwarted by tiny pebbles anymore. That would adequately address the mobility issues assaults are having.

They also need to redo the movement archetypes of mechs. Movement archetypes should NOT be based on the size of the mechs. The reason thats problematic is because mechs like the Kitfox that are scaled too big for their tonnage are getting hit doubly hard by being in worse movement archetypes too. There is no logical reason for mechs with bad scaling to get penalized twice.

Edited by Khobai, 01 June 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Exponential jumpjet return then.

Anywhere beyond 3 starts to net you better and better results.

[Milocinia]

1453 R, on 01 June 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Settle down, Kyocera. In case you don't remember, the forum outrage over the Evil Poptart Meta was at least an order of magnitude worse than the current kerfuffle over laservomit. It was pretty easily to the point where they had to do something to fix it. The something, as it turned out, was kill jump jets, which we all hate now, but at the time people were cheering in the streets.

That said... jump jets in general need better acceleration, and Class I jets in particular need some serious help. I'm honestly surprised anyone bothered with the Whale-S; three jets on a hundred-tonner is as close to an honest waste of tonnage as you're ever likely to see. The MWLL thing where you jump ten or twelve 'Mech heights in the air on a set of orbital rockets is too much, but a four-jet 'Mech should be able to get from the bottom of a gully in Canyon Network to the top of it without shenanigans and having to recharge in the middle. The vertical mobility on jets is awful, and fixing the poptart issues with increased vertical mobility is as dirt-simple easy as having jump shake decay after the jets let off, rather than switching off like a light. Or, hell - even just have it wait an extra second or so before it shuts off like a light.

Seriously, Piranha. WTB better jump jets. Would pay more for next 'Mech pack if it came with better jump jets.

I guess I am overreacting a bit but my dislike for that guy sometime gets the better of me.

I agree with you though. For me the JJ "standard" needs to be the walls of Canyon. It was designed for JJ mobility so for a reasonable amount of tonnage, an assult with JJs should be able to fully scale those walls.

I think the main problem with "balancing" JJs and their poptarting nerf was the tryhards all pretending they had some kind of motion sickness that made them go all woozy with the reticle shake. I think as time has gone on, this has proven to be a total fraud that the comps invented for themselves when the shake was brought in.

I said this at the time. I'm always right. On an mmorpg forum which is dying its final breath I told them the reasons why it's dying its final breath. 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th... I've lost count. I AM always right but no-one listens to me until it's too late.

[Alistair Winter]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 June 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

I twitterbashed Russ about this when Wave III went on sale. He then "tested" DWF-S and declared "Working as intended"

[Drasari]

The solution is the unlock JJ's for clans.

[Milocinia]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 June 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

I twitterbashed Russ about this when Wave III went on sale. He then "tested" DWF-S and declared "Working as intended"

Alistair Winter, on 01 June 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Not sure I can add anything to this other than... Russ wtf?

[Otto Cannon]

There was never any reason to nerf jumpjets. Poptarting was a problem with accurate firing while jumping, not a problem with jumping.

Nobody wants mechs that fly, but the clue is in the name- they should JUMP rather than hover.

[Khobai]

Quote

The solution is the unlock JJ's for clans.

except s-omnipod JJs should remain locked. Since the whole point of s pods is jumpjets.

[Milocinia]

Khobai, on 01 June 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

except s-omnipod JJs should remain locked. Since the whole point of s pods is jumpjets.

I agree with this. The S pods offer a big hardpoint advantage so should be "nerfed" via forced JJs. The only problem is the effectiveness of those JJs

[Lightfoot]

The Gladiator is not worth buying, no Endo Steel, but all jump-jets should work better.

I suggested that Jump-Jets could recharge slower to deter pop-tarting, but make mechs jump twice as high as currently configured as a trade-off. It would work better than what they have now. Poll is in Suggestions.