120 replies to this topic

[Ano]

As my screens are 1920x1200, I'm fairly happy with the "modify-a-mech" experience, although it has a whole pile of rough edges which I'll detail in a post in the patch forum rather than here. Ultimately though, while it'll take a few goes to get used to it, being able to add components to every part of the mech without flipping between sections is a definite improvement.

What's causing me problems is the mech selection process; partly this is down to the way I've done mech selection via the mechlab interface in the past, and partly down to the poor mech selection screen.

Some details:
In the previous UI, I did all of my mech selection via the Mechlab list screen. I typically keep all of my mechs stripped EXCEPT for the handful I'm currently playing -- typically somewhere between 3 and 6 mechs out of ... er ... well now there doesn't appear to be a way to see how many mechs you own in the new ui -- about 130 chassis total.

While it did involve a certain amount of scrolling, I could fairly quickly skim through the mech "tiles" and find the ones which didn't have an "invalid layout" banner over them, to retrieve engines or modules from currently-built mechs to use in a new mech I wanted to build out and pilot. This also had the advantage of sidestepping the "where are my modules?" problem, and so my main bone of contention was cockpit items, which I generally forgot to remove when stripping a mech, and which meant every so often doing a trawl through all of my owned chassis to retrieve warhorns and the like.

In theory, it should be possible for me to recreate a cramped version of my old habit by sorting the mech list by chassis, then expanding each of the weightclass "buckets", but:

• that still means flipping between clan and IS chassis to find mech modules
  
• it's a MUCH smaller window, so waaaaay more scrolling
  
• the collapsible elements for the different weight classes don't remember whether you left them expanded or collapsed, so every time you navigate away from a given view of the mech select (whether opening a mech in the mechlab editor, or just flipping between IS mech and Clan mech filters) they collapse and need to be re-opened... although not entirely consistently, as one section will remember it was expanded, but only one section, not all

There are more niggles/missed opportunities I see, some of which may be useful to many players and some of which might only be useful to me:

• If I can change consumables on the mech select screen, why can't I change other modules too?
  
• Why can't I see which cockpit items are equipped on a given mech from the mech select screen? I can see weapons and modules, and from the new mech editor screen I can see cockpit items (and strip them as part of the the "strip mech" menu, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU)?
  
• Why can't I right-click on a mech in the mech select window and choose some of the global actions, like the various "strip mech" options? In fact why not make use of context menus in the mech editor view?
  
• Why can't I see an unfiltered view of ALL of my mechs?
  
• Why can't I see mech quirks in the mech select screen?
  
• ...and the obvious "why aren't you reading the screen res and adjusting the view accordingly: at the very least enlarging the central mech select area, but perhaps also adding in extra content areas when space is available?

Shameless linkage:
Mech Select: possible quick fixes
Mechlab UI fixes (small items)

Edited by Ano, 02 June 2015 - 03:54 PM.

[bar10jim]

The Iron Chancellor, on 02 June 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Seems impossible to configure 'invalid' mechs, in other words, if I have mechs without an engine/weapons
(ones I've stripped of gear), I cant configure them now, because in the select mech window
(which I've never bothered using until now because I had a choice),
I cannot click 'save' in order to confirm my selection of an 'invalid' mech, as such I cant configure an 'invalid' mech and place an engine in it.

The 'Select Mech' on the HOME screen is for selecting a mech for battle. The 'Select Mech' on the MECHLAB will allow you to change/update loadouts and save them, even if they are not valid loadouts. Yeah, I was also panicking a bit until I figured this out.

[Gorgo7]

Like it! Good job!

[Night Thastus]

I love this mechlab. It's like smurfy, but better in quite a few ways. I like the ability to incrementally change engines up 5 point at a time especially. Ability to see modules are nice.

HOWEVER: The "expanded details" tab for seeing the quirks is terrible. It's low to the screen, can't be moved, small, and poorly designed in general. Really, the "quirks" should also show the enhancements created by the modules.

[oldradagast]

Scratx, on 02 June 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

2- Invalid mechs being uneditable, if it is confirmed. That MUST be fixed, period, end of line. It's a critical issue.

Top quality work there, PGI...

[White Bear 84]

Bishop, people always find a reason to complain..

Great review and example of constructive feedback over QQ.

[Wintersdark]

oldradagast, on 02 June 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Top quality work there, PGI...

He's just wrong. You can select and edit invalid mechs just fine.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Dingo Red, on 02 June 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

• Obviously it needs to be a little more obvious to access the quirks because apparently people aren't cluey enough to check the 'mech stats panel.

I'd just like to put in here that it's not obvious that this is an expandable panel. I certainly didn't know about it until reading this topic. The little icon for the expanding window next to where it says "'MECH STATS" looks a little bit too much like window dressing.



I'm not fond of the 'mech selection overlay; I hate the one in CW for not providing info on your 'mechs' loadouts, and I'm just not fond of the way the list/tabs are constructed. That said, the filtering is very nice to have and overall it's not hard to use.

I really like the 'mechlab, actually. Some things that are not obvious should be made more obvious (for instance that if you drag and drop something into a component and it's over another piece of equipment, you swap it for that equipment instead of just slotting it into the next empty space), but overall, I find it highly usable.

I'm really glad they took the color-equipment filtering suggestion into account, I like the nice visible tonnage meter, the Upgrades tab is much better where and how it is now than it was before, having the hardpoints neatly listed beside the component name is convenient and cool, I love that ammo now sorts not only by type but also by whether or not you have the weapon on the 'mech.

On an amusing side note, I was not aware that I'd built up 3,576 points of spare standard armor left over from 'mechs that I'd stripped. I'd love it if there was a way to sell off some of this extra armor, since there's basically no way ever I'm going to wind up using all of it and needing even more.

I don't shuffle equipment or modules from 'mech to 'mech like most people so I can't comment on that material.


My (surprisingly short) list of complaints:

• I don't like the 'Mech Select overlay. Mostly I don't like how it looks very much, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to change it to make it look 'nicer' to my sensibilities. Oh well. If you could make the CW 'mech selection overlay provide the same information as we get in the 'Mechlab, I would be much more inclined to play CW than I am currently- part of my disaffinity for it is that I sometimes pick the wrong 'mech, or have to take extra time figuring out which one is which loadout- which can easily result in not getting to change my dropdeck if I'm trying to make a change to suit a map or at the last minute.
  
• Color in the window-expander button on the 'Mech Stats window so that it's more obvious that it is, in fact, a button and not a decal of some sort.
  
• The pencil for renaming the 'mech thing is cool. It could stand to have a colored background as well to help bring it to attention, since anyone looking for the old 'Rename' tab is going to be kind of lost, and it's not very obvious.
  
• The Weapon Groups editor doesn't ask you to save your weapons configuration when you leave it without clicking the 'Save' button. This could stand to be fixed just for a matter of convenience.
  
• Please return the information on our current and empty 'mech bay counts to the screen somewhere. It would be really nice to know this before purchasing a 'mech for C-bills, rather than after.
  
• Please, please, PLEASE do something about the Firepower, Jump Distance, and Heat Management numbers. I really, really hate these things because they give a false sense of information. In order:
  
• Firepower still only applies properly assuming you fire all weapons and they all hit with every projectile/tick. This is false advertising, especially when using weapons whose range brackets don't interact well, such as LRMs with small lasers, or that fire multiple projectiles in a spread, like every missile and LB-X autocannon and Clan UACs and ACs and lasers since you might not hit with all ten ticks.
  
• Jump Distance is rather arbitrary. Not only is it not measured with an actual unit label, I have yet to see a jump that matched the assigned label. If this is horizontal distance, it's wrong, since that's influenced very heavily by 'mech speed. If it's vertical distance, it's just wrong period.
  
• GET RID OF HEAT MANAGEMENT. Seriously. My Panther has a rating of 1.8/2. Great. 2 what? 1.8 what? I know 1.8 is better than 1.4, but I have no idea how much of a difference that .4 makes until I take it out in the field, and it's clearly a very different amount of variance than between 1.0 and 1.4. This could very much stand to be replaced with 'Overheat Time' or something, a la the Smurfy's info available in the Weapons Lab window. As things currently stand, this is by and large garbage info. Especially since it doesn't even let me differentiate weapons firing brackets if I'm looking at, say, a 'mech with a set of LRM racks and a close-combat weapons suite.

In other more positive news, yay, I just found the Slots count! Neato. I like this.

Overall, 7.8/10, would build 'mechs in it again (and again and again and again and again...)

[TWIAFU]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

It's not perfect, no doubt.


As for those who are inclined toward proactive thinking, what are the Pros and the Cons you have seen, thus far?

Pro:

I can see equipped Modules easily with Select Mech screen.
Expanded Mech Lab is very nice, I like it.
Filters for Weapons, Equipment, Modules.
Mech Lab feels faster.


Con:

Mech Lab colors - think I just need to get used to them.
Mech Details Window needs to be moveable, covers some of the UI.
It's new and going to take some getting used to.

Edited by TWIAFU, 02 June 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its new, and its scary.

Need the old mech selection mainpage back, and visible Mechbay counter, and its golden.

[TamCoan]

So far, I like it. I am having an easier time modding up a mech. I am in expanded mode so I don't much mind the colors. It's not perfect, but I feel it is a step in the right direction.

Things I would change:
- Select a mech, I miss the larger tiles to show your mechs. While the new view is more condensed, I liked to be able to scan through my mechs visually and select them.
- Quirks are not intuitive to find. I'd restore the tiles on the mech selection and restore the ability to see the mech quirks on mouse over.

[Mcgral18]

Mister D, on 02 June 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

Its new, and its scary.

Need the old mech selection mainpage back, and visible Mechbay counter, and its golden.

And a mech details screen for the sub 1600*900

They just get shafted with the Column view.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 02 June 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

And a mech details screen for the sub 1600*900

They just get shafted with the Column view.

well, last time a game upgraded to something my system couldn't support..... it gave me that "justifiable" opportunity to upgrade......get a 32 inch widescreen for sub 200 bucks all these days.... (do NOT get a plasma though.....ever!)

Just trying to find a silver lining for you.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 02 June 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

And a mech details screen for the sub 1600*900

They just get shafted with the Column view.

It should've been left as "let me view it, even if it's unsupported" (the message needs to be there, but not stopping you from viewing it).

Why this sounds like Lostech is unknown and yet common...

Edited by Deathlike, 02 June 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[Mystere]

RokerSaMoravu, on 02 June 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

However, what bothers me really is that PGI is making some pretty fundamental mistakes and they are repeating them from one iteration into another. And all this business about "impossible to scale" "impossible to have 10vs12" etc... WTF? These are programming tasks that have been resolved by other teams, that can be resolved, and that are a trivial problem for serious coders. It just worries me a lot that PGI is not a competent bunch of people and that this project is going to just brake down in the near future.

I actually have the same depressing situation at work. All the problems that have already been solved over a decade and a half ago are being repeated by our newly hired folks who are supposed to be "better". Frankly, I think they're idiots.

Edited by Mystere, 02 June 2015 - 06:38 PM.

[Dollar Bill]

First off, good job on the new mech lab, B+ (would have been A- if it could scale to you monitors resolution.) I almost don't need Smurfy anymore.

However, after using the "mech select" button in between a few matches I can now say, without a dought, IT SUCKS!!! If you use the same mech for every match it's ok, but if you're try to grind (i.e. blow-up, quit the match, then hop into another mech and keep going) the mech select way takes way too many steps. I know there are some who like it, but now you have to click on this, and then expand that, then click then click some more to do what used to just take one easy click. And it was MUCH faster and easier to just click the mech and seeing what it has by just glancing at it's picture. Like, dose it have my guns, or my lasers? On a 1440p monitor the tiny as hell legalese size font on the mech select screen is a total pain in the ass. Somebody else in this forum said "PGI took 1 step forward, and 2-3 steps back." I thought that was a bit of an exaggeration...then I saw what he was talking about after trying to play a few matches.

PGI, some of us told you during the test server phase we liked the "wall of mechs" better. But it looks like what your customers say dose not matter. Like I said, some players like the mech select button, and that's fine. But please give us a choice between the two!

[Bishop Steiner]

Dollar Bill, on 02 June 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

PGI, some of us told you during the test server phase we liked the "wall of mechs" better. But it looks like what your customers say dose not matter.

Edited your post for clarity.


SOME said they liked the wall of mechs better. Some have said they like the new method better. (BTW, I have never needed more than 15-20 seconds between matches to swap mechs in the new system.....and that's if I'm not 100% sure which I want to take. If I know, it's closer to 5 seconds. Way too long, indeed). Perhaps MORE like the new way? Hard to say since such a small percentage bother to post in the first place, and people are more likely to post what they dislike than for what they do like.

But you really can't make a claim like "SOME PLAYERS" said they liked this...and you didn't listen to US. What makes you think you are in the majority? And if you aren't, no offense, but why SHOULD they listen?

Honestly, while I like the new method, I got no bones with the old either. But I found your statement....... interesting.

[Mercules]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

sorry..I have over 130 mechs. At no time were all my mechs presented at once.

This... I hated the "Mech Spam" almost as much as "Engine Spam".

Dollar Bill, on 02 June 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

But it looks like what your customers say dose not matter.

I told them I liked the new selection method better. Which customer do they try to please? There is a pseudo form of the old select screen still there, just sort it by Class instead of Chassis and now your heavies display in a tiled mech mode.

[102_devill]

Mystere, on 02 June 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

I actually have the same depressing situation at work. All the problems that have already been solved over a decade and a half ago are being repeated by our newly hired folks who are supposed to be "better". Frankly, I think they're idiots.

Hi Mystere,

of course that there are many examples of this. I never said that PGI is the only company trying to invent hot water and ******* it up. But they are, and there is no point in people sugar coating it. They are a profit organization, they take money from us for a product which is not doing very well. Not that it is not doing what some Roker wants it to do, it is not doing stuff that most other competitor products do with ease and stuff which is taken for granted in other games.

Let's take WoT for example. They started just as a small team. The game concept is nearly identical.
At the beginning they also made a lot of mistakes. But I never saw them making such obvious, repeated mistakes with stuff which should be trivial to a good programmer.

I remember that there were some games which didn't scale the UI. But these games were badly designed games; everyone was agreeing with it. I am not saying that we should now have a shitstorm at PGI, but calling it "ok" or accepting that it can't be resolved is just as silly as rage-quitting over it.

But I am really curious to know what is the background of PGI programmers. I can't point it out, but the general style of their problem solving and feature design tells me that they come from a very specific coding background which has not given them any experience in developing intuitive and efficient UIs.

By the way, I can't see all quirks in some mech stats. For example the new Enforcer. The scrollable list ends just after the first ballistic quirk, and the tool-tips of mounted weapons suggest there are more quirks in place. Does this sound like a tough nut to crack or is it just another silly ****-up in coding?

[Haakon Magnusson]

Wintersdark, on 02 June 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

It doesn't "overload" anything - scaling the resolution down on your GPU takes some processing power but it's a trivially small amount. Generally speaking, MWO is CPU limited, not GPU, so unless you've got a REALLY crappy GPU it shouldn't impact FPS at all.

I am continually surprised how crappy GPUs people that play MWO have. (Most of them propably shouldn't even be called GPUs)

But looking at other qq threads, seems people like baking their laptops to play games.
Which generally have **** poor GPUs and the ancient ones don't have enough resolution to run the new expanded mechlab, lucky there is the old one for those settling to play on barely sufficient hw.