129 replies to this topic

[Evan20k]

6/10 OP, you got some people to respond. You could have riled up more people if you had poured some more salt into the fresh TBR/SCR nerf wounds though.

[Kiiyor]

You seem quite adamant about what PTW is... but I think the whole concept is far more nebulous than you think.

Hot tip, Mr OP:
Avoid speaking in absolutes about anything considered contentious on the forums. You'll get people refuting you absolutely.



If you want to invite discussion, phrase your post as a question. If you want to rant, r/mwo might be a better place to do that.

[Evan20k]

I highly doubt OP was serious.

[Corbenik]

It seems people just wanna complain for anything. not everyone is dissatisfied . and you aren't forced to buy anything.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Cuz DAT Panther and Enforcer are clearly superior to the previous versions........ Right?

That's a false dichotomy.

Just because it doesn't hold true for all mechs, doesn't mean there aren't mechs where it is true.



If it were me, I'd also select the mechs that had higher price tags - like heavies and assaults.

I'd also aim for the ones that either fit the meta, or come closer to it.



I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, I'd call it "marketing and sales".



Oh, hey, look just what went on sale for cbills! What a coincidence!

http://mwomercs.com/...able-for-cbills

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 June 2015 - 05:49 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

the wr3ck, on 02 June 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Bishop stop being such a huge hypocrite you yourself said that the new Zeus version was going to be the best

learn to read, and you might stop looking like a total fool.

1) I said it was going to be the best for ME. Considering most people don't use ballistics and missiles that heavy currently? Three Energy hardpoints doesn't the "best" make. Or your Grasshopper argument falls apart faster than it already does.

2) 1 or 2 being top end doesn't make it a conspiracy. Which is what I said. Thus, even if the Zeus was "the best" it is no more p2w than the resistance versions already out are...since no Zeus is currently available for cbills.

You try to look smart using them big multisyllabic words, like "hypocrite", but when you use them wrong? You look even dumber than if you don't use them at all.

Evan20k, on 02 June 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

I highly doubt OP was serious.

Oh, he is serious....seriously........ eh, I'll let you fill in the blank.

[Deathlike]

I couldn't get the 5P to run 3 LPL + 5 ML acceptably, but it should run 2 LPL + 6 ML or 3 LPL + 4 ML just fine, despite not having quirks...

The 3rd Energy hardpoint mount sits in between the 2nd (high) and 1st (low/CT level) hardpoint, so it gets more or less a slight advantage over existing Grasshoppers.

However, no heat gen quirks and really tight DHS fittings (you'd have to be rather creative) plus strict torso staring (which has been negated a little with duration quirks) gives it a niche roles if you can use your arms to shield.

The power creep exists, but not on the same clear traditional sense though. Can we have less clickbait please? Thanks.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 02 June 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

That's a false dichotomy.

Just because it doesn't hold true for all mechs, doesn't mean there aren't mechs where it is true.



If it were me, I'd also select the mechs that had higher price tags - like heavies and assaults.

I'd also aim for the ones that either fit the meta, or come closer to it.



I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, I'd call it "marketing and sales".



Oh, hey, look just what went on sale for cbills! What a coincidence!

http://mwomercs.com/...able-for-cbills

also your Torso mounted weapons theory works a lot better on mechs that actually have beefy enough arms to use as shields. I almost never see Hoppers missing arms...and with no weapons making their hitboxes even bigger? It's huge, it's clumsy, it jumps poorly, has a large CT, easy to hit STs, and no shield arms.

It may be the best, only play time will truly tell, but it's the best of a mediocre chassis, period. Not gonna replace the Thuds anytime soon.

Deathlike, on 02 June 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

I couldn't get the 5P to run 3 LPL + 5 ML acceptably, but it should run 2 LPL + 6 ML or 3 LPL + 4 ML just fine, despite not having quirks...

The 3rd Energy hardpoint mount sits in between the 2nd (high) and 1st (low/CT level) hardpoint, so it gets more or less a slight advantage over existing Grasshoppers.

However, no heat gen quirks and really tight DHS fittings (you'd have to be rather creative) plus strict torso staring (which has been negated a little with duration quirks) gives it a niche roles if you can use your arms to shield.

The power creep exists, but not on the same clear traditional sense though. Can we have less clickbait please? Thanks.

Hoppers arms as shields? We playing the same game?

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Hoppers arms as shields? We playing the same game?

It kinda works, and not great.

I still get sidecored+cored mind you, but it works to a degree. Although, those things are disposable or at least DHS storage space.

[IraqiWalker]

Alistair Winter, on 02 June 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

The people on this forum will never agree about whether P2W is the same as 'early access'. "Just a few more weeks" and "Just a few more months" and we'll all have the same mechs. Except there might be a new mech pack and some new variants at that time, for the people who are willing to pay. But just "a few more weeks" and "just a few more months" and we'll all have access those as well.

But before we discuss the question of whether it's P2W, I do agree with DarthRevis that we need to have a look at the quirks. There have been many IS variants lately that sacrifice weapon quirks for armor and structure quirks. I do wonder if PGI is doing a bit of testing.

The GHR-P has 7 energy hardpoints in the torso and 1 in the arm. This is ideal for the current laservomit meta, and it also has considerable bonus armour and structure quirk. The 5% range bonus may as well not exist though. Just looking at the numbers, I'm not sure if the extra armour and structure makes up for the lack of firepower in the current meta. It's a bit early to say whether it's better than other Grasshoppers, in my mind.

Alistair Winter, on 02 June 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

It does, however, have 120 degree torso twist. More than the Orion, more than the Cataphract, more than the Thunderbolt, more than the Jagermec... in short, more than any other IS heavy mech except the LRM catapults.

Having arms without weapons for absorbing damage is quite alright in the current meta. Which is why the Banshee is fairly popular.

GHR-5P has NO weapons in the arms, It's got a hardpoint in the head. Maybe that's what you're confused about.

[IraqiWalker]

the wr3ck, on 02 June 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Pgi continues to screw even paying customers. This newest grasshopper is 10 times better than the rest. It's the only one with complete extra armor on all parts and also has the best laser quirks with 10 percent less laser duration. PGI continues to sell players mech packs while holding the best version back to make players pay even more after they buy a package. Several other examples are the timberwolf with high laser mounts, energy dire wolf with jumpjets, or ecm cataphract. I would think most players with a brain are getting tired of this business practice. I'm pretty sure the new grasshopper will be nerfed as soon as pgi want players to buy a new mech pack. I am done supporting this business practice. I've been done since the timber energy shoulder release and nerf,even though I didn't buy that. I haven't bought any resistance 2 mechs either. Only reason I didn't cancel clan 3 was because of the shadowcat.

You really haven't piloted Grasshoppers have you? the 5P variant is no P2W mech, in fact, I'd argue it's worse than the rest, since you lose out on DHS in the STs, and it's arms fall off faster than Abaddon's (that's a WH40K joke for those in the know). The mech is ALL TORSO. I don't know what it is, but it's like I can't hit anything on the Grasshopper that isn't a torso. Couple that with being energy focused, and you have the perfect recipe for getting cored in the face in under 30 seconds.

I'd accept the P2W argument if it was actually P2W(it isn't), and if the mech in question was actually THAT good (it's not).

[Alistair Winter]

IraqiWalker, on 02 June 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

GHR-5P has NO weapons in the arms, It's got a hardpoint in the head. Maybe that's what you're confused about.

Confused? I misread the hardpoints, but this only strengthens my argument. The matter seems quite clear to me.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 02 June 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

Confused? I misread the hardpoints, but this only strengthens my argument. The matter seems quite clear to me.

Fortunately, the 5P will never be mistaken for a Mist Lynx (maybe an oversized Firestarter).

Soloing in the PUG queue with that is awful though...

[IraqiWalker]

Alistair Winter, on 02 June 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

Confused? I misread the hardpoints, but this only strengthens my argument. The matter seems quite clear to me.

Confused, misread, same intention.

[Burktross]

I'm going to bet safely this will be demoted to at least jettisonned, right?
OP, with the Grasshopper's size and magnet CT, it practically can't be OP.

[sneeking]

But why didn't anyone at pgi see the glaring and obvious point of panning the view on that mech full screen at the home page ?

Why ?

[the wr3ck]

Burktross, on 02 June 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

I'm going to bet safely this will be demoted to at least jettisonned, right?
OP, with the Grasshopper's size and magnet CT, it practically can't be OP.

the other grasshopper s suck terribly. I think this one will be the best. My point being pgi gets you to buy one thing then tries to sell you an aditional model with better features later. Total ripoff scam.

[IraqiWalker]

the wr3ck, on 02 June 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

the other grasshopper s suck terribly. I think this one will be the best. My point being pgi gets you to buy one thing then tries to sell you an aditional model with better features later. Total ripoff scam.

You do know you can choose to not buy the thing until it comes out for C-Bills right? That's what I'm doing. Much as I love the GHR, it's not a mech I want to spend real money on.

[PurpleNinja]

the wr3ck, on 02 June 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Pgi continues to screw even paying customers. This newest grasshopper is 10 times better than the rest. It's the only one with complete extra armor on all parts and also has the best laser quirks with 10 percent less laser duration. PGI continues to sell players mech packs while holding the best version back to make players pay even more after they buy a package. Several other examples are the timberwolf with high laser mounts, energy dire wolf with jumpjets, or ecm cataphract. I would think most players with a brain are getting tired of this business practice. I'm pretty sure the new grasshopper will be nerfed as soon as pgi want players to buy a new mech pack. I am done supporting this business practice. I've been done since the timber energy shoulder release and nerf,even though I didn't buy that. I haven't bought any resistance 2 mechs either. Only reason I didn't cancel clan 3 was because of the shadowcat.

Yet, you're still here, that's why they will keep using this kind of practices.
Just to be clear, I have no problem with that. They offer me mechs to buy and I buy mechs from them.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

IraqiWalker, on 02 June 2015 - 06:41 PM, said:

You do know you can choose to not buy the thing until it comes out for C-Bills right? That's what I'm doing. Much as I love the GHR, it's not a mech I want to spend real money on.

So temporaly P2W.
And you can`t buy Heros.