1578 replies to this topic

[Raptor007]

Sparky424, on 14 March 2019 - 06:33 AM, said:

Now that we can save our load out of a Mech. I would like to use this after the map vote. Letting us use a load out that works for that map.

That would be awesome, and it shouldn't change the balance since there'd be no changes to the chassis and tonnage. Just need a drop-down in the lobby with all valid saved presets.

The same could apply to paintjob presets. The game could even remember which style you prefer on each map.

4r3s, on 12 March 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

Practically can't play with friends. Fix the (insert swearword here) matchmaking for quickplay as a group and just match 'em with single-players alike.

This is my #1 issue too. I have several friends that would play this game again if we could play together.

[Virtuebane]

Been Playing MW since the First Release ... played 1,2,3 a little of 4 and now the online.. I never understood why a mech has to be "Killed" when both its legs are taken out. I think If the mech slowed to half (or 40) with one leg down it should drop to 10 with both blown out, and still have torso jump jets if equipped (with deminished mobility) instead of just being dead. also if the Gyro is hit no movement but torso twist and arm movement. This would inspire players to go for the engine or the head instead of just shooting out the legs...

The player shouldn't be dead until the engine is destroyed or the head is shot out.

Not only would this make the lighter mechs more of a challenge to kill but the heavier mechs can last longer to. a sitting mech is still a dead mech but the pilot gets the last ditch effort to do something before he (or she) dies.)..\

I like to play light mechs, but hardly anyone aims for the torso or anything else but the legs,, usually I still have a full upper body and all weapons to fight back a little, but no, legs gone, sit and watch.... If this change was made I could at least go down fighting with some dignity...

This also makes the Assaults hard to kill off to,by the way, they might not be able to move but they can shoot till the head or engine is gone.....

It could be added as a bonus at the end of the survival skill chart. If you have ALL the survival skills engaged, then the feature would go into effect...Then people could choose weapons or sensors, or a insignificant chance to survive longer.

Edited by Virtuebane, 07 September 2019 - 09:15 PM.

[Tin Roof Rusted]

1. One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is in the Mechlab MECH STATS.
When you have your mech loaded, on the bottom right of the interface is the specs for your mech, i.e., speed/hs/fp etc.

What I would like to see is another item showing ammo!
Every time I change weps around I have to open my calc to add up how many missiles or ammo i currently have.

Shouldn't be difficult to make a new row showing for instance;

Tonnage: Firepower:
Slots: Speed:
Armor: Jump Distance:
Heat Mgt: Engine:
Dbl Heat Sinks: Sensor Range:
Ammo: Missiles:

You could even instead make these new items show up in the "tooltip" and instead of the tooltip showing what it does, it could instead show the quantities. LRMs #, AC5 #, LBX-10 #

There is a lot of unused space here below the mech load out and you could even just add a complete new box here with the ammo instead of in the Mech Stats box.

2. When leaving a match. Why is it that no matter what screen you are in when you choose quickplay, the game ALWAYS exits back to the Home screen. And every game you have to wait and go thru too many screens just to get back where you were.
For instance, upon match exit, we have to load home screen, then click to get to mech lab, then click yet again to get to skills etc., etc. Lots of wasting time. If I join a game while in the Skills tree, odds are when we finish the match I'm gonna want to go back to Skills AGAIN to use my new points.

3. Maps and video settings:
Their doesn't seem to be much of a quality check on these maps when they were created.
Example, my in-game video setting is set to 50 brightness and gamma. On many maps it is completely bright enough. Then load one of the maps that is all snow like Frozen City. I'm now completely blinded by all the white and almost always have to turn on heat vision just to see details. OR go and change video settings just for this map.
But if you change your video in this map in order to be able to see, when you go in another map, say Solaris City @ night time, you cannot see ANYTHING because now its completely dark cos you had to turn your brightness and contrast down a ton in previous map.
Doesn't seem reasonable to have to do this on these maps when they could be reviewed in house and set a neutral amount of brightness and contrast to every map to at least make them all an average amount of brightness etc.
Maybe it's just me but this is a pain in the butt..

4. Mech lab weapons grouping:
Would be nice to see which weapon is in which slot so you can easily setup your groups.
For instance, if you have 8 lasers, 2 each torso, 2 each arm.
The current display only shows Torso and Arms, BUT DOES NOT show which laser is in which arm.
If we want to group the left and right arms into separate groups, unless you know which is which cos you've done it a million times, you would have to test fire in game or go to testing grounds first.
I can't tell you how many times I've been shot at the beginning of the game as soon as we drop, by someone who is testing which is which and starts shooting the team in the back! Sorry ain't cutting it when you just burned down my dang leg/arm and we haven't even moved yet!

This is an easy fix in the box;
O Arms
123456 Medium Laser (now add LA, RA,LT,or RT) easy fix! See below
123456 Medium Laser LA
+Torso
123456 Medium Laser RT

5. Penalty System:
Just about every game when using my multiple RAC 5s/2s, idiots always want to walk in front of me when I'm blowing crap up.
AND I GET PENALIZED!?!?!?!?!?
Sorry, that's your problem for being stupid so penalize the idiots instead of the shooters who CANNOT stop a RAC5/2 from shooting immediately! When you let off the mouse they still shot a few rounds and when you have 2 RAC 2s and 3 AC 2s etc., etc someone's getting something blown off yet you want to penalize me? That's unreasonable and backwards!

Some of these may not be what you are asking for and if so you can move this to another thread.

Thanks
ScaryPoP

[ArchaneBill]

IDEA - an account option for streaming content providers that LOCKS them at tier 3 by their choice, thus providing drops where tier 1 and tier 5 players can team up without too much extra trouble for anyone involved. I think it would help grow and maintain the user base in a cost effective way available by arrangement and for specific purposes (streaming on whatever service people choose)

[BROARL]

I would like a parrot side torso bolt on please and a hook hand thankyou.

*or a red nose bolt on and a clown horn

[Mr D One]

For me : just let me give you (PGI) a fair amount to purchase faction ranks.

[worldbestplumber]

i vote for a usable UI and shorter waiting times to join a quick match

[Belmenel]

The ability to quick play in a 2-3 man group.

[stop moving I need the cbills]

Would you consider a "squeaky toy" gag warhorn?

[KritterBug]

put the ******* ques back so i can que with my ******* brother ********

**** you piranah

[KritterBug]

yeah scrap the game as it currently is and release a mechwarrior 4 vengance remake for updated graphics so we can play whatever gametype we want instead of voting for two increasingly ****** gametypes one life and dead boring *** gametypes

[Virtuebane]

Edit to my previous post...

I have been looking through the original battletech rule books and have yet to find any rule stating that when a mechs legs are destroyed the mech is dead.. in fact the rule book simply states the movement value is 0 and the mech can still torso twist and fire weapons till the pilot is rendered unconscious or the center torso or head is destroyed.

other things I found interesting is that machine guns are anti infantry and rarely mounted on mechs

I have simply come to the conclusion that this game, although pretty good, has some major flaws in the game play and you can definitely tell it's a game designed to pander to the players and make money for the company that made it. I see nothing to fault in the designers trying to make money on their products by listening, (or not listening to their players) then so be it,

Personally, I think all the weapons are under powered and the mechs are over armored

Light mechs should never run around the battle without fear of an assault mech,

machine guns are way to powerful (the ability to theoretically cut down a stupid atlas pilot, in a fresh Atlas, in 9 seconds with a piranna with 12 mgs is ridiculous.)
Machine guns should only work on a mech when the outer Armour is gone. then it should be a wonderful option to destroy components and cause internal crits. (I am including All machine guns, light ,heavy, clan)
(Its the equivalent of shooting an m16 at a tank, plink plink plink, open the hatch and easily kill the occupants)
(no, the mg is NOT the rotary off A10 (thats more like a RAC2) , its more akin to a .50 cal off a tank or jeep)

PPC, way underpowered, by the Armor scale this game uses it should do about 22 pts of damage

Gauss rifle should do about 30

(or get the armor values back down to original spec. Mech pilots might think twice about rushing the enemy if they're gonna just die in 3 seconds)

These large weapons should be feared on the battlefield, not laughed at.

Stealth Armor should be removed. ECM should be enough to get you by.

Lrms... this apparently has been a touchy subject for years, so here's my thought. to weak, they have the targeting pretty good, the hit spread is decent, having lighter units being spotters is how you had to do the indirect fire in the original rules, it was the c3 link that allowed the launcher use the spotters range for bonuses. But the actual damage is to low

Pinpoint accurate damage while running and the ability to alpha strike every weapon to the same location is just plain stupid,an alpha strike should throw the targeting system in apoplexy and be lucky if anything hits its intended target (the ridicule should jump around worst than running with masc or jumping)

Mechs are century old tech that few and make run properly, targeting is fluffy at best of times, and running at full speed, shooting at an enemy running at full speed makes targeting even more difficult.

Why have different game modes in QP? Just make it assault (NOT SKIRMISH there has to be some way to end the mission before the timer runs out when it's clear the match is over), random weather, day and night, and your done, all the maps are played exactly the same regardless of game mode anyway...

Lack of maps is a different topic altogether....

And Finally, the lack of consequence of your decisions in battle make the game simply and arcade game (worst yet a free console game, at least at the arcade you have to pay a quarter for your stupid game play)

Not having to pay for repairs and rearmament and no consequence for your stupidity on the battlefield make the game simply a simulator with no recourse. Don't know how to fix this problem if there even is one, perhaps a cut of your prize money are the end of the match to cover repairs based on the percentage of the amount of damage you have received during the match, we have to pay for consumables already, why not repairs?

If there were some kind of consequence or benefit to playing smarter then perhaps the game would be one of good tactics and strategy instead of the brain dead "run to the middle and slug it out till everyone is dead" mentality that really just ruins the game.

I like this game, I know it's old and dying, I've put 600hrs in the last 3 mths into gameplay, The fact that I'm Tier 3 in 3 mths should say something about how much I have played that time. I'm not the greatest player, I'm not "ELITE", but I am done with it.

All I can get out of the game now is aggravation, the repetitiveness of the maps, the unsportsman players (not alot of them but enough to ruin the game), the simple slugfest is not rewarding and the game has no future with me unless something fundamental changes in the gameplay. perhaps I'll reinstall the game in a year and try it again, but I wont hold my breath.

Thank you Piranha Games for 2 months of rather fun gaming experience and 1 month of sheer aggravation, but I think I will decline playing for now.

Thank you to the Players for some good game play, good laughs, some good matches, excluding all the players who are just plain unsportsmanlike elitist and their holier than thou attitude.

Good luck, Happy hunting, Have FUN... I'm quite positive my lack of presence in the universe will not be noticed.

[DAEDALOS513]

Virtuebane, on 01 December 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

Edit to my previous post...

I have been looking through the original battletech rule books and have yet to find any rule stating that when a mechs legs are destroyed the mech is dead.. in fact the rule book simply states the movement value is 0 and the mech can still torso twist and fire weapons till the pilot is rendered unconscious or the center torso or head is destroyed.

other things I found interesting is that machine guns are anti infantry and rarely mounted on mechs

I have simply come to the conclusion that this game, although pretty good, has some major flaws in the game play and you can definitely tell it's a game designed to pander to the players and make money for the company that made it. I see nothing to fault in the designers trying to make money on their products by listening, (or not listening to their players) then so be it,

Personally, I think all the weapons are under powered and the mechs are over armored

Light mechs should never run around the battle without fear of an assault mech,

machine guns are way to powerful (the ability to theoretically cut down a stupid atlas pilot, in a fresh Atlas, in 9 seconds with a piranna with 12 mgs is ridiculous.)
Machine guns should only work on a mech when the outer Armour is gone. then it should be a wonderful option to destroy components and cause internal crits. (I am including All machine guns, light ,heavy, clan)
(Its the equivalent of shooting an m16 at a tank, plink plink plink, open the hatch and easily kill the occupants)
(no, the mg is NOT the rotary off A10 (thats more like a RAC2) , its more akin to a .50 cal off a tank or jeep)

PPC, way underpowered, by the Armor scale this game uses it should do about 22 pts of damage

Gauss rifle should do about 30

(or get the armor values back down to original spec. Mech pilots might think twice about rushing the enemy if they're gonna just die in 3 seconds)

These large weapons should be feared on the battlefield, not laughed at.

Stealth Armor should be removed. ECM should be enough to get you by.

Lrms... this apparently has been a touchy subject for years, so here's my thought. to weak, they have the targeting pretty good, the hit spread is decent, having lighter units being spotters is how you had to do the indirect fire in the original rules, it was the c3 link that allowed the launcher use the spotters range for bonuses. But the actual damage is to low

Pinpoint accurate damage while running and the ability to alpha strike every weapon to the same location is just plain stupid,an alpha strike should throw the targeting system in apoplexy and be lucky if anything hits its intended target (the ridicule should jump around worst than running with masc or jumping)

Mechs are century old tech that few and make run properly, targeting is fluffy at best of times, and running at full speed, shooting at an enemy running at full speed makes targeting even more difficult.

Why have different game modes in QP? Just make it assault (NOT SKIRMISH there has to be some way to end the mission before the timer runs out when it's clear the match is over), random weather, day and night, and your done, all the maps are played exactly the same regardless of game mode anyway...

Lack of maps is a different topic altogether....

And Finally, the lack of consequence of your decisions in battle make the game simply and arcade game (worst yet a free console game, at least at the arcade you have to pay a quarter for your stupid game play)

Not having to pay for repairs and rearmament and no consequence for your stupidity on the battlefield make the game simply a simulator with no recourse. Don't know how to fix this problem if there even is one, perhaps a cut of your prize money are the end of the match to cover repairs based on the percentage of the amount of damage you have received during the match, we have to pay for consumables already, why not repairs?

If there were some kind of consequence or benefit to playing smarter then perhaps the game would be one of good tactics and strategy instead of the brain dead "run to the middle and slug it out till everyone is dead" mentality that really just ruins the game.

I like this game, I know it's old and dying, I've put 600hrs in the last 3 mths into gameplay, The fact that I'm Tier 3 in 3 mths should say something about how much I have played that time. I'm not the greatest player, I'm not "ELITE", but I am done with it.

All I can get out of the game now is aggravation, the repetitiveness of the maps, the unsportsman players (not alot of them but enough to ruin the game), the simple slugfest is not rewarding and the game has no future with me unless something fundamental changes in the gameplay. perhaps I'll reinstall the game in a year and try it again, but I wont hold my breath.

Thank you Piranha Games for 2 months of rather fun gaming experience and 1 month of sheer aggravation, but I think I will decline playing for now.

Thank you to the Players for some good game play, good laughs, some good matches, excluding all the players who are just plain unsportsmanlike elitist and their holier than thou attitude.

Good luck, Happy hunting, Have FUN... I'm quite positive my lack of presence in the universe will not be noticed.

It's too bad you couldn't have seen this game in its' glory days.. back when there wasn't 100+ alpha damage loadouts, there wasn't a set meta style that you saw over and over.. and the larger player base meant you met up against a greater variety of enemy warriors and units, each with their own playstyle. Oh and I almost forgot, running to the center and NASCAR'ing like ding-dongs wasn't always a thing .. we played just like you suggest in your message, cautiously. You are very keen in your observations and logic, and are not the first to suggest these ways to improve the game.. but alas, the improvements to the game were grossly outnumbered by the missteps, so much so that the player base dreaded patch day. If only they made baby steps in their changes and listened to their beta testers more..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 01 December 2019 - 09:33 AM.

[Virtuebane]

Being a BattleMech pilot is one thing, Being a MechWarrior/ Merc is different.

As a pilot you work for someone and don't actually own your equipment, you get what your given and if you don't like it you whine and complain or get better and get better equipment and get a paycheck for your ability.

As a mech owner you are more like an owner/operator truck driver. business owner,
You get paid for the time, and use of your equipment, but the repair and maintenance cost are all on you. fuel is a negotiable item and you get paid for that depending on your contract agreement. Actually everything is negotiable and the contract agreement is the important part.

It's a GAME.. I know,
"I just wanna kill stuff and not have to think about anything else"
"I don't have time to grind my way thru the game and get better, I just want to throw money at it and have the biggest, baddest, most skilled mech and go blow stuff up. I don't want to have to actually think or learn to play . shut up and take my money"
blah...blah.. blah....

I've read it, I spent a day skimming the post all the way back to 2012, I see where pgi pandered to the whiny players, I see where faulty designs made the Spider dance possible, I heard about lurmageddon, I personally own an unskilled urbie with 4hmg and 2 med lsr and run into the middle of combat and walk away with 3 kills 2 kmdd and survived the match (yes grossly overpowered).
I have a Madcat II with 2 erppcs , 2 lrm15, and 3 heavv med lsr, and ams... if I hang back to lrm, people ridicule me for not sharing armor, (oh and I die because a stealth commando ran strait at me took a facefull of alpha and 2 extra erppc shots.. laughed, shot out my legs and ran away, and YES I HIT HIM) but I'm a lrm boat by the other players standards and I am not in the nascar run so, he's stupid, let him die. I got to the point if I see the Piranha running towards me, if he doesn't die from the alpha of erppc and heavy lsr that actually hit him (50 pts damage plus whatever missiles hit him) then just override and nuke yourself, because you just ain't gonna survive anyway, (drop artie and die, perhaps you might kill him but most likely not)

If I run up to the front line, I'm just a target and get shot up.... and everyone hide behind me not shooting anything .... or blocking me from retreating back when the rac5's start pounding me.... cool, biggest mech in the group dead with 90% of its ammo intact, that's good salvage to the other team when you loose the match.

or as usual I'm Last man standing against 7, "why is you mech fresh what have you been doing you lazy *&$^&*?"
"Oh, typical LRM boat, doesn't know what he's doing,"
What am I doing,, shredding armor from a distance so my team can kill the over armored enemy easier (can't do that no one will lock targets and keep LOS, "Lrm Boat will take My kill, waaaaaaa" oh well) , and when they fail (like usual) at least my under powered ERPPCs will have a snowballs chance of possibly taking down at least one of the 7 ... I have managed 3, not 7.

I don't really care about Kills (though fun when you get one), I care more about surviving, winning, achieving objectives, WINNING THE MATCH. You achieve that with teamwork, strategy, outsmarting the enemy (who are probably better than me on 70% of the occasions). A teamwork game with no teamwork is simply a deathmatch with no purpose. Go to Solaris if you want that.



Yup, a locust with a RAC2 is dumb, but I got 7 kills in 4 matches with it, died every time but it was actually fun, but I also popped UAV's and artied the enemy while I was scouting got a 385 match score, and nothing but "that's a stupid build" "your stupid to bring that".

I've said before I'm not and ELITE player, but I did achieve the Word of Blake standing Item in one of the recent event (500 match score in a round) in a LOCUST LCT-V1. so I can't be all bad. I've Cracked the 1198 damage with the Madcat (7 kills ,4 assist and the last man standing on assault against 3), 1800 with the Archer LRM boat (no kills) 6 KMDD 11 assists. I've saved the day 1 v 3 in a locust V1 on Plexes, Oh, I have the Stealth Pirates bane, very rarely use it, don't usually play with ECM unless I'm bored and want to hang around on the front lines SUPPORTING the assaults with my ECM and AMS if I have it. or am I doing that wrong to? I should be taking down the entire enemy team by myself in a Piranha... or an Urbie... wait I don't own the Piranha anymore.... never mind..

Game was fun for 2 months, the the creeping flaws in the play just get worse and worse. I see why there are certain players that intentionally do bad in matches to lower their pilot scores and stay in tier 5 and 4, (you know who you are and I have seen you do it) because new players are malleable, and don't whine and cry so much and the game is actually a little better in the lower tiers, at least more civil and ALOT less crybaby meta crap. Hell some of those players actually think the game has a purpose and play it with new to them tactics.... some fail, some are quite fun, at least they're different.... Tier 3---yaaa nascar again!!!!

I could go on about Flaws, this don't work, why no group drop , hard to get into a match with my friends, Faction play ( QP x4 with 5x waiting period, (but sometimes different maps, i guess))
matches in solaris are the same ole same ole. Assuming anyone is actually playing it.. Its a different game entirely in the arenas... hey it was different , it was fun till you run into the "Your build is stupid" crowd.... yup I'm done.

I even tried turning off chats, unhook the mic (I know defeating the purpose right) just use the cmd wheel play like I don't care.
You know what, I do care, I like to win, I don't mind losing, it is just a game but I do like seeing the Victory, and that ONLY happens with TEAMWORK... when its there, the game is fun, communication is the key, some of the tactics are dumb (NASCAR) some have been rather unique, maybe not the smartest tactics but new ideas on old maps, at least its different and new.. even fun... yea we lost a lot, but I had fun... not anymore...

"If the lower tiers are better then just start a new account and play down there...."
Done that.... worked for a week now tier 4 again... back to the bs.... not starting again... guess I'll go play in the real world

I like Battletech, I like Mechwarrior. This just isn't either of those games..... better luck next time. Perhaps MW5, but probably not.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Virtuebane, on 01 December 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

I have been looking through the original battletech rule books and have yet to find any rule

I totaly disagree with you. Mechwarrior as a PC PvP game can´t be played with round based tabletop rules or pyhisics.
PGI had the right intension and some good ideas. Ghost heat for example. Mechwarrior needs to be seen as PvP game in the same universe as Battletech, with the mechs and the weapons.
In my opinion MWO, as it is currently designed, behaves to much like a random first person shooter. Running around, jumping around, shooting enemies, nothing special. What could make this game special and different, would be the application of more realistic physics. A 100t mech that goes from 0 to 60 kph in 2 seconds? Doubt. Not even a 20t mech can do that, not even if someone found a way to combine triple strength myomer and MASC. If the mechs would feel more like giant, heavy robots, the experience and gameplay would be totaly different.
And not just the mechs should be slowed down, the hole game should be slowed down. Double the cooldown of all weapons, increase the heat of all weapons, decrease the dissipation rate of the heat sinks.
Making MWO feel like an ordinary first person shooter gives us this constant "nascar/**** i don´t need a team" experience.

[Paul Meyers DEST]

Play FP, but not with a lurm mad cat

[Ruediger Steiner]

Paul Meyers DEST, on 03 December 2019 - 05:37 AM, said:

Play FP, but not with a lurm mad cat

Lurm MadCat? You think i´m a noob? Lurm MadCat ... i´m using a Supernova A.
Haven´t played a lot FP since the disaster. My old clan is dead and random groups ... it´s just not for me.

[Paul Meyers DEST]

I know you are a pro with a lurmsupernova. I meant virtuebane.

Random Groups are still better than qp or not playing at all.

[Virtuebane]

Tried FP, it's a little different but it doesn't really change the fundamentals of the game...
Wishmast3r hits on a valid point that the game feels more like the unreal tournament or a FPS akin to battlefront or 1942 because its a PVP style sim, to fast.

I disagree that it couldn't be more based around the TT rules, programmers have been doing it for years,, All games are turn base in some degree but with today's computers if you don't do anything then that was your turn, if you do do something then the game incorporates it into it's spot and the game goes on.

MWO is a great game,don't get me wrong, it's just not Mechwarrior, it's counterstrike, Battlefield 1942, SW battlefront, or a mess of other First person shooters with high speed walking robots and no real physics (really 155.5kph thru water over my head in a locust ,ahem). MW3 got it somewhat right, it had its faults (quite a few actually) to but it was more a Mechwarrior game than this is.

There's really no point to this game, win credits, buy mechs. Pay real money, buy mechs and shiny bits....
Get them destroyed? na... you can't lose anything except a match, maybe some arbitrary pilot skill level points.
(Challenges from the events are kinda cool but no real value there either except you don't have to pay as much real money for shiny bits)

I never got to play the game "In it's prime" perhaps it was tons better. I don't know. I Played, I did decent, I got bored honestly.

FP is just QP with 4 mechs and more organized teams... not much fun really especially after waiting 15 min to get into a match just to be slammed into a group of pugs (me included) against a team of 8-12 highly skilled communicating players... might as well eject 4 times and just be done with it because we ain't gonna win or give any real resistance...22 min wasted.. start again , different pugs, same team on the other end.... why did I hit launch????

"WOW the red team sucked.....
"What a bunch of losers....
"well, that was just a waste.....
(maybe a GG in there some ware) don't remember to pissed at the unsportmanlike players, I'm done, back to QP....

I'm done (for now) , I like the game, don't love it, have issue with it. If I see the tone of the game change or a development team that would turn the game more MechWarrior, less free for all shoot em up, then perhaps I will give it another chance.
(with MW5 out there, I don't see that anytime in the near future, sorry)

[Ruediger Steiner]

Virtuebane, on 03 December 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:

FP is just QP with 4 mechs and more organized teams...

When i started MWO 3 years ago FP was fun. Rushing the enemy with 12 Gargoyles or 12 Ice Ferrets. Surprise freeborn scum!