252 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 08 June 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

They should change how JJs work first and foremost
like fundamentally change them from a hover to an angled jump

This was my thought...

if JJs had a mechanic where every 1m height got you 3-4m in forward motion...it becomes much more limited for people to jump snipe.

[Revis Volek]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

No, non, NO.

Why always this uncontrolled ramjet crap? JJs are to assist mobility, not strap your butt on a titan rocket for parts unknown.
You can have powerful, fully controllable JJs AND still minimize but allow Jump Sniping. Be it thru simply extending reticle shake to last a short while into the down drop (thus reducing the window to fire, especially as the "perfect shot is at the apogee....which would still have shake, and thus you would have to wait for short window on your drop) or some form of variable CoF mechanic, either would be far preferable than these silly super rocket JJs people keep proposing. Seriously, how do people who actually run jumpers want this?

I think the arm of the mech should just be forced DOWN when you jump UP!

So if you have some CT and St weapons MAYBE you can pull it off...but arm weapons should not re align properly until the mech is BACK ON THE GROUND.

Gyrok, on 08 June 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

This was my thought...

if JJs had a mechanic where every 1m height got you 3-4m in forward motion...it becomes much more limited for people to jump snipe.

This i a nice addition as well...between this, CoF or Screen Shake/ Arm misalignment i think Jump Sniping would be reserved to mechs that can pull it off ONLY and not be a META like it was.

Edited by DarthRevis, 08 June 2015 - 10:15 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I'd like to poptarting come back under certain conditions:
-you take the stock number of JJs (can add more individually if so choose and variant allows for it such as HGN-HM requiring 3 min, but can add the other two if they choose to do so) or none at all.
-adjust JJs so that the gravitational acceleration isn't 3.8x the strength of Earth's gravity, which means more hang time so on an over jump your ass is in the breeze long enough for that laser boat to get a full length burn.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Maybe larger mechs like heavies and assaults can be made to have more height than currently in game (allowing them to get on top of terrain), but the ascent is a lot slower than smaller mechs. This way smaller mechs can hop on top of things, but heavies or assaults have to take twice or 3 times as long to get to the same height.

That way the JJs can still be used to climb terrain, but heavies and assaults expose themselves to fire a bit longer while in the air because their weapons take longer to clear the obstacle they are jumping on.

It makes it more of a terrain navigation tool and less of a jump snipe tool. Besides if assaults walk slow and turn slow, they can jump slow too.

I can see some exceptions made for a Summoner and the such (quirked for faster JJing), but only a few exceptions. I still don't think I want to see an assault have exceptions (even if it is the much maligned Victor).

[Lugh]

MeiSooHaityu, on 08 June 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Right now jump sniping is where it should be, with light mechs and some medium mechs. They have a smaller alpha potential and need the additional use of cover that poptarting affords.

As for heavy and assault mechs, they should never be able to poptart effectively ever again.

The hover jet syndrome is a sad result of this, but until a system can be put in place that restores JJs, but keeps poptarting nerfed, we should keep what we have.

I'm sorry have you SEEN the Nova?!!?

[H I A S]

Gyrok, on 08 June 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

This was my thought...

if JJs had a mechanic where every 1m height got you 3-4m in forward motion...it becomes much more limited for people to jump snipe.

Nope
It should be so ->

[Bishop Steiner]

DarthRevis, on 08 June 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

I think the arm of the mech should just be forced DOWN when you jump UP!

So if you have some CT and St weapons MAYBE you can pull it off...but arm weapons should not re align properly until the mech is BACK ON THE GROUND.

Up thrust, that make some sense, not really for the down thrust. Perhaps at the apex have it take .5 a second for the crosshairs to align again. But still no arm lock.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Speaking of jump sniping... does anyone really use Highlanders or Victors anymore?

[Bishop Steiner]

HiasRGB, on 08 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Nope
It should be so ->

back to so easy an idiot can do it? Pass.

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Only for those who like to take 2 JJs and think they're good.

I pop-tart in my Thor when the opportunity presents itself. Unless you only go a few meters, the legs take damage. Obviously the terrain makes the difference on how much JJ fuel you consume.

[Bishop Steiner]

00ohDstruct, on 08 June 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Speaking of jump sniping... does anyone really use Highlanders or Victors anymore?

It's a shame in the quest to end Jumpsniping they also largely wrecked those chassis as mobile brawlers. VTR-9S used to make one heck of a nice jump brawler.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Jump sniping still exists, quite a few of us do it, it's just not so easy a caveman can do it now, and that's what people want back.

I agree with Bishop on MOST of his points, one thing we disagree on however.

I believe the reticle shake should start the moment you hit the JJ and shouldn't stop until you are back on the ground. Lore backs that up, the rules, meaning the Solaris stuff, backs it up, and that would allow PGI to un'f the JJ, put PPC/ERPPC velocities back up again, and we wouldn't have the poptarting fest that happened last time. If you can't aim with precision, jump sniping and poptarting aren't worthwhile enough to be meta.

[Bishop Steiner]

I was poptarting the heck out of my Urbanmech last night. On one of the roofs on mining collective. My teammates were doing the usual "scatter and die" tactic, and in my 67 kph/ AC10 and ML Urbie, it just didn't seem the way to go. Got 3 kills on 257 dmg, all Assault mechs.

One Might accuse me of kill stealing, or playing garbage man, but the Solo Kills I scored on two of them says otherwise. Positioning, patience and people not using enough back armor. I was content.

[Wine O]

Jump sniping still exists for small and medium mechs. Maybe that's how it should remain.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kristov Kerensky, on 08 June 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Jump sniping still exists, quite a few of us do it, it's just not so easy a caveman can do it now, and that's what people want back.

I agree with Bishop on MOST of his points, one thing we disagree on however.

I believe the reticle shake should start the moment you hit the JJ and shouldn't stop until you are back on the ground. Lore backs that up, the rules, meaning the Solaris stuff, backs it up, and that would allow PGI to un'f the JJ, put PPC/ERPPC velocities back up again, and we wouldn't have the poptarting fest that happened last time. If you can't aim with precision, jump sniping and poptarting aren't worthwhile enough to be meta.

And so you remove it entirely as a valid tactic? Can't agree. Simply making it difficult is fine.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Well, I think the Victor could still be used as a quick Assault with decent firepower. Do be usable again, it would need some structure or armor quirks to the side torsos maybe. Basically it needs to tank a bit to keep the XL engine intact and be able to chase down some heavies and inflict pain. I don't think of needs to jump to do that.

The Highlander is a lot trickier. If it could jump again, I almost want to see it get negative armor or structure quirks. Maybe make it more of a glass cannon that adopted jump tactics for survivability. It would have to be small negative quirks though or it would be back in the "never used" boat. The Highlander is definently the trickier of the two to balance.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 08 June 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 08 June 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Well, I think the Victor could still be used as a quick Assault with decent firepower. Do be usable again, it would need some structure or armor quirks to the side torsos maybe. Basically it needs to tank a bit to keep the XL engine intact and be able to chase down some heavies and inflict pain. I don't think of needs to jump to do that.

The Highlander is a lot trickier. If it could jump again, I almost want to see it get negative armor or structure quirks. Maybe make it more of a glass cannon that adopted jump tactics for survivability. It would have to be small negative quirks though or it would be back in the "never used" boat. The Highlander is definently the trickier of the two.

back when it had jump mobility it was considered one of the tankiest in the game. I Almost never lost an ST even to the Alphas flying around. I drive it now, and it indeed feels a lot more fragile.

[Revis Volek]

00ohDstruct, on 08 June 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Speaking of jump sniping... does anyone really use Highlanders or Victors anymore?

I try....but they are rather lack luster to say the least.

I LOOOOOOOOVE VTR's! My favortire mech EVER! They used to be Kings Of MWO and i miss those days. But i know why they were nerfed just wish it wasnt so hard. I thought NERF ® was soft?

If they fix the VTR i would have a hard time playing CW because I am clan and I could'nt take it with me into CW!!

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Pop tarting (which is very static and can lead to two teams (evenly matched) fighting across a map for however long until someone gets an actual advantage) is very possible now. Just need people to dedicate themselves to it.

Why would someone want that snore fest where it's really about who has the quicker draw. It'll turn this game into one of those COC ilks for teenagers.

[Mystere]

MeiSooHaityu, on 08 June 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Right now jump sniping is where it should be, with light mechs and some medium mechs. They have a smaller alpha potential and need the additional use of cover that poptarting affords.

As for heavy and assault mechs, they should never be able to poptart effectively ever again.

The hover jet syndrome is a sad result of this, but until a system can be put in place that restores JJs, but keeps poptarting nerfed, we should keep what we have.

Highlanders would like a word with you, preferably in private and away from any witnesses, especially with regard to the underlined portion.

Edited by Mystere, 08 June 2015 - 10:44 AM.