103 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Vaderman, on 08 June 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

They should make it solo drop only, I suspect there's a lot of score buffing going on.

Yea, cause I could never sync drop with the whole Unit.

Only thing that would change is what excuse you would come up with if they made it solo only.

[TWIAFU]

bad arcade kitty, on 08 June 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

a terrible event which excluded most of the playerbase from participation

Like every event?

Group event you complain that one has to group and excluding solo.

IS event and you complain that Clan are excluded from event.

Clan event and you complain that IS are excluded from event.

Solo event and you complain that groups are excluded from event.

Conclusion;

You just want to complain about anything and everything MWO.

[Widowmaker1981]

Rhazien, on 09 June 2015 - 03:11 AM, said:

Played only "worrying" about the c-bill bonuses, just checked on my standings from time to time to see how i stacked up to others.
As other folks mentioned tho, some of the least team oriented gameplay this weekend. I should not have to tank in my X5, and I certainly shouldn't have to solo an assault while a heavy literally looks on and waits until i core him to fire! Happened more than once, kill stealing at it's finest.
Also, dying, then spectating to see ALL the lights and mediums cored, and finding 2 Heavy Metals at 100% firing LRMS from the back is infuriating...

That is completely stupid play from the assault. Kills are worth exactly the same as assists, you need solo kills to get a good game, and solo kills dont come from trying to kill vulture. Also very hard for a group to 'feed' solo kills to a player.

[Poisonfog]

Some people are never happy, and they all want to post in this thread...

Was fun to use my Fang, only had about 25 drops with it before the event, probably had at least another 25-30 during the event. Hopefully I'll stick in the top 50 just for the sake of pride.

I like stuff like this. Gives people a reason to jump out of their Timberwolves and Thunderbolts, at least for a minute. Nice to see a bit more of a variety on the battlefield, too.

[HoundOfCullan]

I can't play anylonger. So I'm currently #36 on the Death's Knell board. And I hope that they take each of the leaderboards, top 50 of each and look at the stats. Anyone with suspicious stats needs to be banned, lose their account and everything they've accumulated. Now, maybe there won't be any, which would be great. But in all honesty, I'm sure there are few.

[TB Freelancer]

Personally I like the challenges, but these leader boards just aren't for me. I normally just don't have the time to grind a pile of perfect matches to compete with the guys play the entire weekend to get them.

In most winter months I just don't have the time. This time of year its just out of the question for me now that its boating season. My weekends I go to the marina, hop in my boat and spend my weekends cruising, fishing and just enjoying being outdoors.

Hell I'll even take a day off in the middle of the week if the work load is light and the weather conditions are too enticing.

[Weeny Machine]

What only galls me when it comes to this event was that some people cheated one way or another. Two occurences just made me shake my head:

1. As I said in another thread: I was spectating from a cockpit of a certain top 5 pilot because I hoped to learn something from a top 5 pilot being myself at a measly rank 36. What I saw was horrific: bad positioning and horrible aiming. I was flabbergasted.

2. When I ran through the tunnel (Forest Colony) I saw a teammate fire repeatedly somewhere further in. I moved closer to assist and saw him finish off a mech. Two more destroyed mechs lay in front of him and he had not even one scratch.
Later he finished the match with 4 kills and some assists and a murderous damage score.

Sure, that is no "hard evidence" but I think we should not be so naive as to think that people won't manipulate their score.


However, I think PGI isn't to blame. Those are acts of shady characters and I am not sure how PGI could even code anything to preven this.

All in all I have to really commend PGI for their weekly events. Mostly I enjoy them very much. Therefore two big:

Edited by Bush Hopper, 09 June 2015 - 04:09 AM.

[Foxwalker]

After playing several of the featured sale Heroes in games this weekend, I was struck by how mediocre most of them are. I realize that PGI does not want to create a P2W environment, but they should at least be top tier.

Featured Mechs:

Centurion Hero: CN9-YLW "YEN-LO-WANG"
Cataphract Hero: CTF-IM "ILYA MUROMETS"
Dragon Hero: DRG-FANG "FANG"
Dragon Hero: DRG-FLAME "FLAME"
Commando Hero: COM-TDK "THE DEATH'S KNELL"
Awesome Hero: AWS-PB "PRETTY BABY"
Cicada Hero: CDA-X5 "The X-5"
Highlander Hero: HGN-HM "HEAVY METAL"
Jenner Hero: JR7-O "OXIDE"

I know many may respond to this and say, I do great in my put-your-Hero-here MECH! My guess is those players do as well or better in other chassis. Heck we see guys running around doing 900 to 1000 damage in Urbies and Locusts.

I do not often see most of them in competitive play, or CW. Honestly, I don't expect them to be an "easy" button, but they should be a bit better.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Foxwalker, 09 June 2015 - 04:18 AM.

[Leiska]

Bush Hopper, on 09 June 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

2. When I ran through the tunnel (Forest Colony) I saw a teammate fire repeatedly somewhere further in. I moved closer to assist and saw him finish off a mech. Two more destroyed mechs lay in front of him and he had not even one scratch.
Later he finished the match with 4 kills and some assists and a murderous damage score.

Sure, that is no "hard evidence" but I think we should not be so naive as to think that people won't manipulate their score.

I kind of assumed there would be something like this going on. I'd guess most played fairly, but when there is a way to game the system to your advantage, it's going to happen. Some of the leaderboards also have massive gaps between the 1st and 2nd place, which seems fishy to me, though I don't want to make any accusations based on pure speculation.

Still, this tournament seemed much more competitive than what I assume was the first open beta tournament back in the day. I think I made 4th in the assault mech category then (hadn't played this game for ages until recently), now I'm ~90th in the X-5, my hero mech of coice for this tournament. I guess the fact that I refuse to waste c-bills on consumables and my CDA isn't elited hurts my chances a bit.

Foxwalker, on 09 June 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

After playing several of the featured sale Heroes in games this weekend, I was struck by how mediocre most of them are. I realize that PGI does not want to create a P2W environment, but they should at least be top tier.

I don't mind the hero mechs being a little underwhelming precisely because of the P2W factor. In some cases I do wish they were a bit more unique, though. The Huginn and Oxide are excellent hero mechs because they're so different from other Ravens/Jenners (and indeed other lights in general), but some other heroes, like the Ilya, are kind of bland and not too differentiated from the c-bill variants.

Edited by Leiska, 09 June 2015 - 04:41 AM.

[Mavairo]

They shouldn't have made it solo or group que.

Or at least give the solo guys a pts break.
Otherwise I like it. Especially the Cbill bonus.

Forgot how good the fang is once you get it down pat. Murder mech.
Also hero bonuses should now ALWAYS be 50 percent.

Leave the Special mechs in mech packs at 30 percent.
But I think Hero mechs specifically should be 50.

Edited by Mavairo, 09 June 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[Mad Porthos]

I liked the challenge, also liked several of the previous along with the ten games formula, however when I think of the fact that it is allowed in the group and solo queue a problem comes to mind. I've played in a few of these and I think for the first one like this recently, the founders match, it was solo only and it was framed as a personal challenge - part of it, at least ... that part that wasn't being leaderboarded and was just anybody, in any mech getting thier X number of games. For the founder leaderboard too though, that I think was solo queue only.

In that event, they couldn't really prevent a thing that happens alot with large groups, sync dropping or just plain CHANCE dropping with your teamates, who know you are on the leaderboards and are willing to funnel you kills and help you out. May sound like a conspiracy theory, but no, just stating I think how it worked. After seeing this happens anyways, the Phoenix and Clan and other challenges have been group and solo queue both - which is okay I guess, since it just legitmizes that the guys trying to make the leaderboard often will form up a group to help them out doing so, such as a tag team of firestarters to turn opponents, so that the leaderboard contender can mop up alpha kills through that sweet thin back armor. Tactics develop and always will, to most efficiently get the solo kills, which also require most damage... but are not so hard to get if you have buddies getting their attention with only flamers and machineguns.

So ironically, the event brought more of these out. I was surprised. But always, it gets me to thinking if the leaderboard is supposed to be personal skill, is there not a way to better measure that it's PERSONAL, rather than a gamed score? I literally argued FOR solo kills as being a pretty good indicator a few weeks back, but I didn't really think it through that someone skilled and effective could drop on an alt account in trial mechs, and could be grouped with an ally, pinging me with non lethal weaponry so that their ally still will get the kill most damage and solo kill when the moment comes.

On the flipside of this problem/complaint is the realization that this is exploring how one can measure or quantify personal vs. group success. The more we do challenges like this, the more chances there are to tweak the formulas for measuring things... more assists overall being rewarded for a challenge that is trying to encourage GROUP coordination, while things like solo kill and kill most damage being the metric to measure the guy who is killing most efficiently, whether because he's mop up, or designated killer, or just plain lucky today.

[GeistHrafn]

All i can say is there's much better pilots in X5's than me...5 kill, 6 assist, 760dmg games don't even move me a little lol.
The leader has more than 1100 points on me, which just blows my mind.

[Bilbo]

It was enjoyable. Had some good games in the Yen Lo Wang and Flame. Nothing Spectacular though, so I went nowhere on the boards.

[Mad Porthos]

Based on what you are saying, I think you might have (M)issed something about the metric, the way this an(d) recent tournaments have been scored is weighted to getting very specific statistics which ARE NOT the ones you mentioned, kills, assists and damage. Instead the greatest weight is to the solo kill. To get a solo kill, you have to have done kill most damage and I think ( but not sure) killing blow. If you got 5 kills, but each one was on someone who had been more damaged by everyone else, then you really get very low score for that match vs someone who got the same 5 kills with mst damage on each and thus was awarded solo kill points on each of the 5... thats how someone scoring 3 kills for example still could be doing much better than you... all were solo kills, all thus were most damage and probably also got killing blow points... someone else could thus be doing better than you on this, plus be grtting like 9 assists and some extra odd points from damage. Even big damage numbers though have practically nothing to do with the score of the match, maybe 30 or so points between scoring 300 damage and 900 damage... its ALL ABOUT DA SOLO KILLZ.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 10 June 2015 - 04:34 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Mad Porthos, on 09 June 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Based on what you are saying, I think you might have kissed something about the metric, the waythis anr recent tournaments have been scored is weighted to getting very specific statistics which ARE NOT the ones you mentioned, kills, assists and damage. Instead the greatest weight is to the solo kill. To get a solo kill, you have to have done kill most damage and I think ( but not sure) killing blow. If you got 5 kills, but each one was on someone who had been more damaged by everyone else, then you really get very low score for that match vs someone who got the same 5 kills with mst damage on each and thus was awarded solo kill points on each of the 5... thats how someone scoring 3 kills for example still could be doing much better than you... all were solo kills, all thus were most damage and probably also got killing blow points... someone else could thus be doing better than you on this, plus be grtting like 9 assists and some extra odd points from damage. Even big damage numbers though have practically nothing to do with the score of the match, maybe 30 or so points between scoring 300 damage and 900 damage... its ALL ABOUT DA SOLO KILLZ.

Exactly

4 solo kills, 0 assists, 450 dmg = 250 points
5 non solo kills 7 assists 750 dmg = 170 points

my best game was 3 kills, 7 assists, 900 dmg:
3 kills = 30 points
3 solo kills = 90 points
7 assists = 70 points
6 kill most dmg dealt = 120 points
900 dmg = 60 points

total = 370 points

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 09 June 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Roadkill]

HoundOfCullan, on 08 June 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

They have that. It's the "Kill Most Damage" points. You get an assist for helping, and you get the "hard fought assist" for doing th most damage.

Not what I'm looking for.

Kill Most Damage is basically an acknowledgement that you're the one who really did all the work, but you didn't get the kill shot. It's a substitute for Kill Shot, not Assist, because only one person can get that award.

The point of Hard Fought Assist is to indicate that you actually helped kill the Mech, not just scraped a laser across it at some point for 0.01 damage. The bar should be set high enough that you might not get it even if you did actually engage and fight, but low enough that multiple people should get the award most of the time. It should be mutually exclusive with Assist and worth more.

[Catra Lanis]

They should have separate leaderboards, one for solo and one for group. There are plenty of good people out there that are solo or are in a small unit and they get bumped down by people being fed kills.

[Black Ivan]

Horrible event. Teams fight like mad and friendly fire is crazy.

[Widowmaker1981]

Catra Lanis, on 09 June 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

They should have separate leaderboards, one for solo and one for group. There are plenty of good people out there that are solo or are in a small unit and they get bumped down by people being fed kills.

being fed kills doesnt help. Its really hard to 'feed' people solo kills

[shippy]

I'll preface by saying i had a blast, (I played YLW, X5 and Oxide and didn't break the top 200 in any).

I thought the scoring did effect the way people played though, lots of chasing lights (where this doesn't actually happen too often in pugs - during non-tourneys) a revised scoring to reward team winning more might be needed more than "kills" let's face it, this is seldom a "duel" game, it's teamwork if you stick with your team and the other team separates, you're going to roll them.