252 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

http://www.reddit.co...arting_to_be_a/

What are your thoughts on the matter?

[Duke Nedo]

Not afraid of some poptarting as long as it doesn't turn into pogostick online...

[Cyborne Elemental]

Fix hitreg, and you can justify bringing back Jump sniping.

[FupDup]

Meh.

I'd like the JJs and various weapons to be restored to their previous forms before they got nerfed due to jumpsnipers, but I don't particularly care about the toaster pastries themselves.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 08 June 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

http://www.reddit.co...arting_to_be_a/

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Jump sniping never left. It simply shifted, and fell, rightly, into the hands of those with the skills to pull it off.

Now if you are asking if braindead, stationary toaster pastry alpha parties with PP-FLD Assault Mechs should return?

Definitive: NO.

For those like Soy, or even myself? It's still stupidly easy to poptart in Novas, Vindicators and even Summoners, among other chassis. You simply aren't getting the lazy man bang for buck 30-40 PP-FLD damage you did before. Now it's an even more mobile game, for those who can still do it, and more part of the bag of tricks than a one trick pony.

That's pretty much fine as it is.

FupDup, on 08 June 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Meh.

I'd like the JJs and various weapons to be restored to their previous forms before they got nerfed due to jumpsnipers, but I don't particularly care about the toaster pastries themselves.

Easy way to have both. Sadly neither Russ nor Paul seem inclined to listen.

[Revis Volek]

It never left....well maybe the steering wheel underhive.

[H I A S]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Definitive: YES

/fixed

[Bishop Steiner]

DarthRevis, on 08 June 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

It never left....well maybe the steering wheel underhive.

My steering wheel came with foot pedals though! JUmping is still easy! derp!

[C E Dwyer]

jump snipping still happens. I do it from time to time in a Nova, or Myst lynx, usually pretty badly.

Should jump jets be useful again, yes, but with less control more like a ramjet, gravity should be lowered so mech hang if used in a straight up down method, so more a target to stop the tiresome whack a mole comming back

[Bishop Steiner]

HiasRGB, on 08 June 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

/fixed

If you think that is fixed, in context of the statement, I pity you.

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Jump sniping never left. It simply shifted, and fell, rightly, into the hands of those with the skills to pull it off.

Now if you are asking if braindead, stationary toaster pastry alpha parties with PP-FLD Assault Mechs should return?

Definitive: NO.

For those like Soy, or even myself? It's still stupidly easy to poptart in Novas, Vindicators and even Summoners, among other chassis. You simply aren't getting the lazy man bang for buck 30-40 PP-FLD damage you did before. Now it's an even more mobile game, for those who can still do it, and more part of the bag of tricks than a one trick pony.

That's pretty much fine as it is.


Easy way to have both. Sadly neither Russ nor Paul seem inclined to listen.

DarthRevis, on 08 June 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

It never left....well maybe the steering wheel underhive.

The bigger picture is, the reddit thread is looking for 30-40 pt snap alpha mechs to come back...VTRs and HGNs and CTFs.

Jump sniping in my mind is fine where it is...in fact, I would even say PPCs perhaps get another nudge upward in velocity say...100-150 m/s over where they are now...and call it good. Though, I do not think we need anything bigger than a heavy mech doing it, and even then...not sure something the size of a CTF should be doing it. The suckoner cannot carry enough to actually do anything with it really aside from just mobile fire support....

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 08 June 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

jump snipping still happens. I do it from time to time in a Nova, or Myst lynx, usually pretty badly.

Should jump jets be useful again, yes, but with less control more like a ramjet, gravity should be lowered so mech hang if used in a straight up down method, so more a target to stop the tiresome whack a mole comming back

No, non, NO.

Why always this uncontrolled ramjet crap? JJs are to assist mobility, not strap your butt on a titan rocket for parts unknown.
You can have powerful, fully controllable JJs AND still minimize but allow Jump Sniping. Be it thru simply extending reticle shake to last a short while into the down drop (thus reducing the window to fire, especially as the "perfect shot is at the apogee....which would still have shake, and thus you would have to wait for short window on your drop) or some form of variable CoF mechanic, either would be far preferable than these silly super rocket JJs people keep proposing. Seriously, how do people who actually run jumpers want this?

[Gyrok]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

No, non, NO.

Why always this uncontrolled ramjet crap? JJs are to assist mobility, not strap your butt on a titan rocket for parts unknown.
You can have powerful, fully controllable JJs AND still minimize but allow Jump Sniping. Be it thru simply extending reticle shake to last a short while into the down drop (thus reducing the window to fire, especially as the "perfect shot is at the apogee....which would still have shake, and thus you would have to wait for short window on your drop) or some form of variable CoF mechanic, either would be far preferable than these silly super rocket JJs people keep proposing. Seriously, how do people who actually run jumpers want this?

I would be ok with a locked 30% trajectory angle forward from JJs. Then use the number of JJs to scale linearly and dictate distance and height achieved.

[mogs01gt]

Too much fall dmg for it to be effective.

[Mavairo]

Leave it in the gutter where it belongs.

It wasn't terribly hard to beat most pop retarts.
It also wasn't particularly fun either way.

It's a brain dead build, that's why it was meta. Even a chimp could be showed how to do it. That's the definition of a proper meta build.

People also act like mwo is some high skill game. It really isn't. Try world of warships sometime, where you actually have to account for distance in your shots, travel speed (of both yourself, and your target), maximize your armor by angling your attack angle to make shots bounce off your armor, and still be able to fire afterwards, and deal with inertia, and positioning. Then actually have to worry about how mobile your enemy is, or isn't (instead of just loading up on the heaviest, nastiest mech you can squeeze in with as many guns duct taped on).

I tried pop retarting, and was utterly bored in 3 days of doing it, back when it was the meta. Too easy.

That being said, it's EASY to have working JJ.which is what we should have had to start with.
JJ should push the mech forward, as much as they push your mech upwards, and quickly. They're used in battletech to clear terrain. As they sit now, and as they sat before they weren't the best for doing that.

Incorporate shake, up AND down on the JJ burn and there you go. Fixed JJs.

Edited by Mavairo, 08 June 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 08 June 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

The bigger picture is, the reddit thread is looking for 30-40 pt snap alpha mechs to come back...VTRs and HGNs and CTFs.

Jump sniping in my mind is fine where it is...in fact, I would even say PPCs perhaps get another nudge upward in velocity say...100-150 m/s over where they are now...and call it good. Though, I do not think we need anything bigger than a heavy mech doing it, and even then...not sure something the size of a CTF should be doing it. The suckoner cannot carry enough to actually do anything with it really aside from just mobile fire support....

It's fine if something like a Summoner, CTF or VTR do get to poptart. It's the risk/reward ratio that needed adjusting, not nerfed out of existence.

Especially with fall damage and jump heat, we now have two things that we really didn't have during the height of the PopTardery. With reduced velocities (and usually de-synced though gosh look at ac10s and PPCs now) shots, it's not the same game as before.

If one was to extend reticle shake, like we have now, on the up jump, for somewhere between .5 and 1 second after thrust is cut, you now force the mech to jump higher, thus being exposed to more return fire, and risk more damage if they try to short change the number of JJs because either you don't have enough height to tart in the first place, or you risk serious leg damage by not having sufficient fuel to land.

And you could tune the shake duration based on chassis size if need be. Oh, and armlock should automatically disengage when jumping. Realistically speaking the arms probably would need to shift to maintain balance while jumping, since Mechs ape human movement mechanics. (One of the reasons I feel a small CoF while running makes sense, at least for arm mounted weapons...since they would be pumping to reduce gyro strain)

The issue was never the tactic. It was how stupidly easy it was to do, and how little risk it took to do it, which is what turned 90% of MWO into stationary Pogostick matches.

The only people who want to return to that, I would have to imagine are those who can't do it now, and needed the crutch play of yesteryear.

mogs01gt, on 08 June 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Too much fall dmg for it to be effective.

Only for those who like to take 2 JJs and think they're good.

Mavairo, on 08 June 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Incorporate shake, up AND down on the JJ burn and there you go. Fixed JJs.

don't agree with full shake on the entire drop. Jump sniping is a legit tactic that should be available for those who can do it. It just shouldn't be so easy a chimp could do it, as you said. Of course, most of those chimps are vomiting LLs all over the place atm......

[Lugh]

mogs01gt, on 08 June 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Too much fall dmg for it to be effective.

If you take fall damage when jump sniping you are doing it wrong...

[MeiSooHaityu]

Right now jump sniping is where it should be, with light mechs and some medium mechs. They have a smaller alpha potential and need the additional use of cover that poptarting affords.

As for heavy and assault mechs, they should never be able to poptart effectively ever again.

The hover jet syndrome is a sad result of this, but until a system can be put in place that restores JJs, but keeps poptarting nerfed, we should keep what we have.

[H I A S]

mogs01gt, on 08 June 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Too much fall dmg for it to be effective.

My BJ3/NVA/SMN say otherwise.

Fix JJ: More vertical thrust with less JJ
Fix PPC: Make it faster and cooler.
VTR and HGN back in buisness.

Edited by HiasRGB, 08 June 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

They should change how JJs work first and foremost
like fundamentally change them from a hover to an angled jump