191 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

4v4 along with the rest of CW Phase 3 is supposed to be late summer, or at least in 2015. Might see it by November. Russ has said they keep adding new elements to Phase 3 therefore pushing the date out a bit, but it will for sure be in 2015.
"PvE" I'm not sure, but we are supposed to get some shiny new tutorials this year that will have PvE elements in them. Solaris I am not quite sure.

I hope you're right. I'd be happy to see it late summer, but considering there's very little buzz going on, I imagine it'll be a while before we see it. I don't think they've ever said anything about when Solaris will be out, except that they're planning to have it at some point. Which is probably a good call, because it's doubtful they could give a realistic date with any accuracy.

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

The prime complainers about nothing meaningful though, I am not sure specifically what they want.
I just think the only thing lacking really is game modes and a little more meaning behind taking planets in CW. More rewards rewards or something.

It's not so much that the game is lacking something. In a sense, the game is complete right now. It's just unpolished and flawed, but the core of the game is in place. At this point, I'm thinking more about what elements are needed to make me keep playing when the game is pushing on 3 years. At some point, I'll get bored of what we have now and I feel like PVE and Solaris are the only things that could pull me back.

[Johnny Z]

Alistair Winter, on 10 June 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

I hope you're right. I'd be happy to see it late summer, but considering there's very little buzz going on, I imagine it'll be a while before we see it. I don't think they've ever said anything about when Solaris will be out, except that they're planning to have it at some point. Which is probably a good call, because it's doubtful they could give a realistic date with any accuracy.


It's not so much that the game is lacking something. In a sense, the game is complete right now. It's just unpolished and flawed, but the core of the game is in place. At this point, I'm thinking more about what elements are needed to make me keep playing when the game is pushing on 3 years. At some point, I'll get bored of what we have now and I feel like PVE and Solaris are the only things that could pull me back.

I think 3 years in not alot of time to make a video game in this very new industry. I also think this game is far from complete and is far from being the triple A game it should be. I also think this may be one of the best Triple A games some day, maybe top 3 to 5. Mechwarrior could even get right to the top in time with some awsome expansions, but again that takes time.

Mechwarrior is already at the top for meaningfull character customization which is the mechbay.(room for improvement)

Also at the top with great combat along with maybe a few others. (room for improvement)

Mechwarrior lacks just about everything else at the moment.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 June 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[WM Jeri]

Rhazien, on 10 June 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

Seeing the constant "PGI sucks" attitude that a lot of folks give on the forums, spewing venom with little constructive purpose (I am not referring to this thread), I'm not at all surprised he has no intention of coming back to engage with us here.
I see threads where someone IS constructive, offers a good idea for others to discuss, only to be hijacked by the same venom each time. It's like grade school at times.

I get it, some people are disillusioned with the game. I get some are angry. But it doesn't encourage PGI to listen to us when you let it creep into what could be a good conversation with valid points.

Their choice but when a developer disengages I stop spending, which I have done with this game, not just spending but I have even stopped playing and actually uninstalled to make room for other things.

This was my staple my go to game and where I spent my entertainment dollars. As of now I have actually even turned over the leadership of the unit I was in to other members in our gaming community who are still emotionally invested in the game as I only thought that fair.

But in terms of your comment and the OP both are the key reasons I basically have moved on. I am done supporting what I see as a dead end version of a game I no longer have interest in, did I get value for what I bought, I certainly think so but as it stands now and for what I see in the future I have no desire to sink money into something I consider for me will have diminishing returns of entertainment value. I was staying for my team members not the game.

Interesting anecdote is the state of MWO actually led us to form Clan Widowmaker into a Multi-gaming community because we were losing to many members to other games. Folks we enjoyed hanging out online with and for the first 3 years of MWO that need never existed.

I wish them luck and I check in from time to time because of the money I have spent and premium time I still have built up as well as the MC I have sitting in the bank but don't ever know if anything they do will encourage me to reinstall. But vitriol aside its in PGI's interest to not disengage they will bleed more players in the long run if they do that. Just my .02 cents.

Ta Ta Folks!

Edited by WM Jeri, 10 June 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[Pjwned]

As far as Russ himself not engaging the forums because he doesn't like peoples' dissatisfaction despite being dissatisfied for valid reasons...

I don't really approve of largely avoiding his own forums, but as long as the forums are not being ignored (whether that's through the community manager and/or browsing but not posting much or whatever else) then he can go do whatever else it is he does. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the product or the developers if they prefer to avoid their own forums and post everything on Twitter instead, but as long as you do your damn job properly then it doesn't really matter.

[Lindonius]

This thread is hilarious!

Well done all involved.

Edited by Lindonius, 10 June 2015 - 03:36 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

WM Jeri, on 10 June 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Their choice but when a developer disengages I stop spending, which I have done with this game, not just spending but I have even stopped playing and actually uninstalled to make room for other things.

...

Can I have your stuff?

[Deathlike]

I'll put it this way.

Russ never ceases to amaze me.

That is why, we'll have more or less what we already have in 2015, going into 2016.

I'm starting to forget what the point of CW Phase 3 is, due to the non-interaction about it.

[bad arcade kitty]

you don't understand, twitter is cool, forums are not cool, forums are for grannies, it's the yesterday, micro blogs are the tomorrow, all hail our twitter overlords

[Tarogato]

For what it's worth, I supported your position on Twitter to Russ. I agree that Twitter is a ... well... it's dumb, and he would be better off to pay more attention to the "official" forums.

Edited by Tarogato, 10 June 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

lordtzar, on 10 June 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

The trappings of a game developer......

I played another mmo for almost a decade. Right around the time of it's height in popularity, the devs started ignoring the players. Up until then they worked with the community.

They had two other games in development and their "cash cow" was just that. It was purely seen as money to hold them over until the other two games were finished.

That didn't turn out so well. One game flopped, the other was cancelled. The cash cow wasn't producing like it was and it was like they had no idea why.

Eventually they figured out that they can't just ignore the cash cow and expect it to keep producing no matter what.

EVE!! Youre talking about CCP lol

Paigan, on 10 June 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

Uhm...
I can understand that a guy in his position (being endlessly bugged by numerous people) might block someone after that one constantly being a smartass or constantly annoying him, etc. But for suggesting to engage with his customers? ... o_0
He can always say "not enough time, sorry" or "too much flaming there" or anything. But blocking?

He blocked me during a time when I wasnt even TALKING to him lol Ive seen him block his whitest knights (at the time) Csand, Roadbeer and someone else, for having the temerity to even QUESTION his vision. Lol

Pjwned, on 10 June 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

As far as Russ himself not engaging the forums because he doesn't like peoples' dissatisfaction despite being dissatisfied for valid reasons...

I don't really approve of largely avoiding his own forums, but as long as the forums are not being ignored (whether that's through the community manager and/or browsing but not posting much or whatever else) then he can go do whatever else it is he does. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the product or the developers if they prefer to avoid their own forums and post everything on Twitter instead, but as long as you do your damn job properly then it doesn't really matter.

Why even keep the forums open if theyre going to completely ignore them?

Oh wait, its been like that for years now, no change

[Burktross]

I think you've turned my white armor yellow and sour...


No intention of forum communication?!
What?!!?!

Russ, c'mon man, step up.

Edited by Burktross, 10 June 2015 - 04:28 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Burktross, on 10 June 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

I think you've turned my white armor yellow and sour...
No intention of forum communication?!
What?!!?!
Russ, c'mon man, step up.

That was a major leap of inference on behalf of the OP. He basically said "Russ, you should stop talking to fans on Twitter and start talking to them on the forum", to which Russ responded "Ok, I'll stop talking to you on Twitter."

So rest assured, Russ didn't actually say that he didn't intend to communicate on the forums.


Then again, we kind of noticed that he's not posting on the forums anyway

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Alistair Winter, on 10 June 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

Then again, we kind of noticed that he's not posting on the forums anyway

And has a pretty solid history of not doing so

Quote

He basically said "Russ, you should stop talking to fans on Twitter and start talking to them on the forum", to which Russ responded "Ok, I'll stop talking to you on Twitter."

How is that better? Thats the reply Id expect from a 13 year old

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 10 June 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[Burktross]

Alistair Winter, on 10 June 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

That was a major leap of inference on behalf of the OP. He basically said "Russ, you should stop talking to fans on Twitter and start talking to them on the forum", to which Russ responded "Ok, I'll stop talking to you on Twitter."

So rest assured, Russ didn't actually say that he didn't intend to communicate on the forums.


Then again, we kind of noticed that he's not posting on the forums anyway

I'm still skeptical. He had a point in forums statement, but was blocked nonetheless. In fact, I don't think OP was being insolent or anything, merely brutally honest.

*Shrug,* Then again I'm not the best at interpreting or properly conveying attitudes, either.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 10 June 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

And has a pretty solid history of not doing so



How is that better? Thats the reply Id expect from a 13 year old

It doesn't help that he didn't even punctuate it.

If you're going to ziing, somebody, you gotta put in that punctuation for extra ziing points.
"Sure, I'll stop engaging /you/ on twitter."
He had the chars to do it, too!

Edited by Burktross, 10 June 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[Tarogato]

Burktross, on 10 June 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

It doesn't help that he didn't even punctuate it.

If you're going to ziing, somebody, you gotta put in that punctuation for extra ziing points.
"Sure, I'll stop engaging /you/ on twitter."
He had the chars to do it, too!

... I know, right? He never punctuates anything, phrases things very unconvincingly, and is prone to spelling/grammar errors. Even when he isn't filling half the available char limit. I mean... come on, man. At least make it look like you care.

[LordKnightFandragon]

LordBraxton, on 10 June 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

PGI's cow has protruding ribs and an empty belly. Let's milk this analogy.. shall we? If PGI can't summon the resources (or more likely the knowledgeable coders, like the ones that mass-quit because of russ) to overhaul MWO's core... this game will likely not last more than a couple more years. The game has drastically decreased in quality graphically, and that doesn't fly in todays market. They need to fix the graphics, collisions, and hit-reg, to keep players around. They also need to fix the economy and NPE to bring in fresh blood. They've needed to do this for 2.5 years now and all we got are more mechs and a terrible attempt at CW.

Is that right? lol, a bunch of good coders quit cuz of Russ? ouch.

And yeah, that OP convo with Russ defs about explains MWO in a nutshell and pretty much means this game is doomed to be pretty well mediocre to **** at best. Lets hope Harebrained and Weismann takes it over. THey will know what to do.

[Bill Lumbar]

LordKnightFandragon, on 10 June 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Is that right? lol, a bunch of good coders quit cuz of Russ? ouch.

And yeah, that OP convo with Russ defs about explains MWO in a nutshell and pretty much means this game is doomed to be pretty well mediocre to **** at best. Lets hope Harebrained and Weismann takes it over. THey will know what to do.

I don't have the facts on all that, but I have to say I wasn't a big fan of the turn base shadowrun at first, simply because I believe that the Sega version was the best version of Shadowrun ever made to date, but the new shadowrun did grow on me, and their pricing model for the game is very fair for the "value" you get. To sweeten the deal, they even gave us buyers of the first version of dragonfall a revised version of dragonfall with more content added to it and a revamped battle interface IU for the huge amount of FREE. I will support them when the upcoming Hong kong is out for sure, I just wish they would go the way of the sega version... but still love the game.

One the plus side, with the game editor software included in the price of the original game, I have hundreds of hours in on designing a remake of the sega version of shadowrun. Still working on it, its been a blast learning all the ins and outs of programing within the editor. I have found it does take a lot of work to create a game for sure.... but it will be worth it when I am done.

Also another plus side that I have heard is that they are not making Hong kong release for mobile platforms, and it will be PC/mac/linux only. This is to add more depth, better graphics, more complicated game play, and IMO, the only way to go with Shadowrun! I am happy about this, and its a big step in the right direction IMO.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 11 June 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Kiiyor]

JC Daxion, on 10 June 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

So the guy says, He won't talk on the forums.. I don't blame him. He has people that do that...


The guy talks directly to people on twitter, and on top of that has town hall meetings where he answers questions directly for 2-4 hours, and has done so a few times since they took over about 9 months ago.

PGI has never been more transparent, about what is going on, And have been pretty darn on spot with all their announcements since IGN dropped.


I honestly don't get what more people wan't..

And i totally get it, today's gamers want everything yesterday. Over all in 3 years from founders to now.. i think they have made some great steps, with only improvements on the grand scale..

CW is a smaller group of people, (fact) they have the numbers not us, so if it is getting back burned a bit for other stuff that helps more players enjoy.. i get that completely.

the guy takes the time to talk to you, you press topics, which finally makes him say he has had enough, instead of just having a short convo and letting it go, and now you are upset? Wish i could see the actual convo, cause sounds to me like he was talking to a fan that started giving him crap, just from the ton of how you are reacting to his answers..


I've been waiting since 2001 for another story based campaign, and joined up with this game the moment i heard about it.. and continue to support the game with cash, in hopes that one day i'll get my wish.. Till then i will happily play this great mech game, that there is NOTHING else like it anywhere in todays gaming,... and be happy i got what i do, and hope it keeps improving like it has over the 2+ years that i've actually played it.

These are great points.

People need to learn the difference between having a conversation and starting an argument.

Starting a conversation with the intention to force someone to accept your point of view isn't a 'discussion', it's badgering at best.

sycocys, on 10 June 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:

3. has zero intention of ever engaging with the community on the forums again.

PGI does engage with the community. More than they have in a long time. Russ isn't all of PGI. We have a community manager. We have other PGI staff that DO post. Even if Russ isn't posting on the forums, he does take to twitter (a great deal) for reasons of practicality he has explained before. While i'd prefer that at least makes it's way to the forums, I can understand if it doesn't.

Would you like to know the reason the PGI upper echelon doesn't post here more? Because it doesn't matter if they do. They don't have discussions because the community has shown time and again that anything they post will be relentlessly attacked, as MWO has a thousand different factions, all with different agendas. Any attempt at reasoned discussion is drowned out by the immediately hostile pitchfork wielding professional agitators screaming past company mistakes into megaphones like a mantra:

"I GUESS I'M ON AN ISLAND"
"COMING SOON I'VE HEARD THAT BEFORE"
"WITH A TRACK RECORD LIKE THIS WHY WOULD WE EVEN BOTHER"

If PGI agree with the most boisterous forumites, the more even-keeled and quieter ones will go on the attack for PGI bending to the will of the vocal minority. If they urge patience, queue the trolls. If they try to engage in actual discussion, they only garner more resentment when impossible questions and demands aren't answered to the satisfaction of the bitter few.

Not only can they never please everyone - they can never please ANYONE that assumes a combative stance at the start of a discussion. "So, Russ, you really feel that the current snails pace of development is acceptable?" Did you really phrase it that way? What the crap kind of question is that? How would you react if someone spoke to you that way? I can answer it for you: probably with anger, or more appropriately, you wouldn't answer it at all. If that's the way you phrased it here, I think I can predict the tone you used when you spoke to Russ.

Why would he bother replying to a questions that is so clearly framed to start an argument? If you want to have a discussion, at least make it worth his time to hit the character limit for a tweet.

Sigh. Man, my high horse is teetering today.

While the majority of posters here understand how to phrase questions and engender discussion, there is unfortunately a very vocal minority that don't want a 'discussion' - they want to burn an effigy.

[AnimosityMonk]

Alan Davion, on 10 June 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

This is pretty much it exactly. The recent kerfluffle over trying to re-release Phoenix Wave 1 being a perfect example of the toxicity of the forum community, not to mention the TBR/SCR thing at exactly the same time. I have seriously never seen so much filth being thrown around before.



And this right here is a perfect example of the hole PGI has gotten themselves dug into. They need money to pay the people to fix the stuff that's been broke since forever, but they need to sell mechs/mc in order to get that money, and with the recent quirks on the TBR/SCR, a lot of clan players are less inclined to buy stuff, such as wave 3 and simply wait for the c-bill release.

That's a huge hit to PGI's wallet right there.

Then, as with my previous statement, there was the poll over Phoenix 1. PGI could have gotten a pretty good windfall from that alone, but the venom over the whole 'exclusivity' thing, not to mention the TBR/SCR got the kibosh put down pretty hard on that.

As for the steam release, well I'm willing to bet that a lot of people that use that are completionists/collectors. They'll be able to get the Clan Invasion (I) and IS Resistance ( R ) stuff pretty easily, but what if they see one of those (P) mechs? Wouldn't it stand to reason they'd want that too?

And that goes right back to the whole stupid 'exclusivity' BS.

I've never seen a vicious circle as big as all this. I could say something more, but I'm hesitant to do so without adding fuel to the fire.

Will you please shut up about this. You are like a dog with a bone. The Phoenix mechs are gone and are never coming back no matter how much you whine about it. Grow up, get a girlfriend and play some GD Mech Warrior. You know what Steam players are gonna hear when one asks about the "P"? They'll hear that they were a one time offer made right out of closed beta and are not available anymore. End of story.

[Johnny Z]

Deathlike, on 10 June 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'll put it this way.

Russ never ceases to amaze me.

That is why, we'll have more or less what we already have in 2015, going into 2016.

I'm starting to forget what the point of CW Phase 3 is, due to the non-interaction about it.

I hope your wrong about the first part and the second part has some merit and I would also like to know whats going on with phase 3.