60 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

It has been too long since a "buff the Vindicators" thread was created, so I figure I'll try and renew some effort into improving them because they still need it the worst out of all the mediums (Cicadas getting an honorable mention followed by the Trench Buckets). While it would be nice to see extra missile hardpoints all around, since quirks seem to be the way to go for balancing things, how about some quirks? I have some ideas but lore buffs wouldn't necessarily like them.

Basically my idea for quirks center around a few builds.
VND-1AA (PPC Jump Harasser)
VND-1R (LRM Spammer, Head TAG makes it possible for a mini-4J with JJs)
VND-SIB (SRM Brawler, could still make use of LLs, just need different quirks)
VND-1X (Slower but more "heat efficient" version of the 1AA)

Will post some ideas for quirks later, but would love to see a focus on the quirks outside of the only good weapons mounted on the stock variants.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 10 June 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Im all aboard for this. They REALLY need a hitbox revision too.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

The VND-1AA is great. But that's because it didn't get boned by engine cap and terrible hardpoints.

The VND-1R has decent hardpoints but a garbage engine cap. I wouldn't mind it getting a second M hardpoint or ridiculous LRM quirks.

The VND-SIB has some okay hardpoints, SRM quirks might help out, but I'm not sure since I never owned one.

The VND-1X. This guy, this ************ makes me wonder what the **** they were thinking. They really need to change it's hardpoints. It barely has the tonnage to utilize a big ballistic. They seriously need to drop a B hardpoint and add another E to the right arm.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 10 June 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

Im all aboard for this. They REALLY need a hitbox revision too.

The hitboxes aren't that bad honestly, it just suffers from being oversized for its weight (much like most mediums) and being a humanoid mech with most of its firepower mounted in the arms. Though I wouldn't be against more structure buffs since they seem to orient all their new quirks more to durability instead of insane weapon quirks.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

The VND-1AA is great. But that's because it didn't get boned by engine cap and terrible hardpoints.

It is in a good place, but it still needs more since the jump sniper SHawks are still better than the poor 1AA and even those are mediocre.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

The VND-1X. This guy, this ************ makes me wonder what the **** they were thinking. They really need to change it's hardpoints. It barely has the tonnage to utilize a big ballistic. They seriously need to drop a B hardpoint and add another E to the right arm.

Yeah, it does make me wonder what was going through their head. At the same time though, if it got a speed quirk like the Summoner, it wouldn't be as bad. Ammo per ton quirks would be nice, but not necessarily needed provided it got more synergistic quirks with regards to the PPC/AC10 combination.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The Vindicators have a issues. They aren't entirely terrible (well except the 1X), but they aren't that good either (with maybe the exception of the 1AA).

* Hitboxes: Arms too big from the front. Since that can't be helped now, I'd like to see some additional structure and armor buffs to the arms and maybe structure to side torsos.

*Too slow for how fragile they are. They are light for a medium and way too large for their weight. I'd like to see the 1R and 1X get the engine limit lifted to the 1AA (or at least closer).

* The 1AA (the better one) is too vulnerable with current quirks. I'd like to see the PPC quirks changed to ERPPC. Give such a fragile medium with limited hard points some short range protection.

* 1X (crappiest). Burn it to the ground . OK, maybe some better ballistic quirks (RoF related maybe).

These are some of my ideas on what I'd like to see.

[GreyNovember]

WM Quicksilver, on 10 June 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

Basically my idea for quirks center around a few builds.
VND-1AA (PPC Jump Harasser)
VND-1R (LRM Spammer, Head TAG makes it possible for a mini-4J with JJs)
VND-SIB (SRM Brawler, could still make use of LLs, just need different quirks)
VND-1X (Slower but more "heat efficient" version of the 1AA)

Roles clearly defined, and it doesn't kill off a Chassis as totally useless; while at the same time allowing a medium that isn't 55 tons to be usable in the current environment.

I like it. Hope this pushes through.

[Gas Guzzler]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 June 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

The Vindicators have a issues. They aren't entirely terrible (well except the 1X), but they aren't that good either (with maybe the exception of the 1AA).

* Hitboxes: Arms too big from the front. Since that can't be helped now, I'd like to see some additional structure and armor buffs to the arms and maybe structure to side torsos.

*Too slow for how fragile they are. They are light for a medium and way too large for their weight. I'd like to see the 1R and 1X get the engine limit lifted to the 1AA (or at least closer).

* The 1AA (the better one) is too vulnerable with current quirks. I'd like to see the PPC quirks changed to ERPPC. Give such a fragile medium with limited hard points some short range protection.

* 1X (crappiest). Burn it to the ground . OK, maybe some better ballistic quirks (RoF related maybe).

These are some of my ideas on what I'd like to see.

Equip ER PPCs on the 1AA, I think the quirks will apply to those.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Equip ER PPCs on the 1AA, I think the quirks will apply to those.

I'm pretty sure the quirks are PPC only. The game treats them differently. That is why the Panther 10K specifically calls out ERPPC quirks.

Its a bummer. The 1AA is fast, but it can't outrun a light (except an Urbanmech or maybe a Panther). I suppose that is the downside of running a 2 PPC 1AA, but I'd still like ERPPC quirks anyway.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Equip ER PPCs on the 1AA, I think the quirks will apply to those.

Can confirm. The ERPPC benefits from PPC quirks but not vice versa (sadly).

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 June 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure the quirks are PPC only. The game treats them differently. That is why the Panther 10K specifically calls out ERPPC quirks.

Its a bummer. The 1AA is fast, but it can't outrun a light (except an Urbanmech or maybe a Panther). I suppose that is the downside of running a 2 PPC 1AA, but I'd still like ERPPC quirks anyway.

They do, but I'm pretty sure it's a bug.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

They do, but I'm pretty sure it's a bug.

Really? That is weird...and beneficial if it does.

[patataman]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Can confirm. The ERPPC benefits from PPC quirks but not vice versa (sadly).

Really? Good to know, i would have never guessed that. I will test it as soon as i get home. This would be a huge improvement for my 1R with 2 PPC. More range for sniping and more damage at brawl range if a flanker catches me. And a bit more heat to manage XD

[Lexx]

I bought the St. Ives Blues hero mech when it first came out, mainly because I thought it looked cool.

It lacks the speed needed to survive, and there are far too few weapons hardpoints to make it viable as a slow medium mech.

The SIB was so bad, I had PGI to refund the MC and I got rid of it. I have never once regretted that decision.

I don't want any Vindicators. Even with the quirks they got, they are not worth using. There is nothing that mech can do that a Blackjack can't do better.

[FupDup]

All Vindis actually have a bonus missile hardpoint in the game code, but PGI slashed it down because they thought it might be OP...lol.


Oh, and for the love of fluffy kittens, please put their minimum engine cap to 250 on ALL variants, because the Battletech Construction System™ hates sub-250 engines and so does PGI. This should also apply to Blackjacks as well.

No mech over 25 tons should have a cap under 250, period, and the only reason for those really tiny ones to have it is because those poor underprivileged trouserstains don't even have the tonnage for an actual REAL engine instead of a sub-250 piece of crap.

Edited by FupDup, 10 June 2015 - 09:40 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

patataman, on 10 June 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

Really? Good to know, i would have never guessed that. I will test it as soon as i get home. This would be a huge improvement for my 1R with 2 PPC. More range for sniping and more damage at brawl range if a flanker catches me. And a bit more heat to manage XD

I tested it with VND-1AA. With no quirks an ERPPC jumps heat up to 25%. With just the 10% general energy the heat should be jumped up to 23%. But when I tested it, the heat only went to 20% with an ERPPC.

To verify, the PPC only jumps heat up to 13% heat due to the quirks only making it generate 8 heat (20%) per shot.

[MeiSooHaityu]

FupDup, on 10 June 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Oh, and for the love of fluffy kittens, please put their minimum engine cap to 250 on ALL variants...

+1

Seriously, the Vindicator needs speed for survival due to the larger model and lighter armor. The Vindicator, with its tonnage should have really been about the size of a Hunchback, although it's too late now.

Also, it would be nice if it was allowed to jump without taking leg damage for even minor impacts. I feel like the Vindi is actually intended to be a jumping mech, yet it seems all too easy to damage the legs on landing.

The latter issue isn't nearly as crucial (more of a wish list thing) as the first issue. The first one is more of a problem IMO.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 10 June 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[FupDup]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 June 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

+1

Seriously, the Vindicator needs speed for survival due to the larger model and lighter armor. The Vindicator, with its tonnage should have really been about the size of a Hunchback, although it's too late now.

Also, it would be nice if it was allowed to jump without taking leg damage for even minor impacts. I feel like the Vindi is actually intended to be a jumping mech, yet it seems all too easy to damage the legs on landing.

The latter issue isn't nearly as crucial (more of a wish list thing) as the first issue. The first one is more of a problem IMO.

It also helps with critslots (a few fringe builds) and a wee bit more cooling (TruDubs)...

[Mcgral18]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

The VND-1X. This guy, this ************ makes me wonder what the **** they were thinking. They really need to change it's hardpoints. It barely has the tonnage to utilize a big ballistic. They seriously need to drop a B hardpoint and add another E to the right arm.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I agree with dropping 1 ballistic for 1 energy in the Vindi 1X. There is no realistic way it could ever use 3 ballistics effectively in this game. It's worthless running 3 MGs, and not beneficial running 2 MGs or 1 MG to fill up empty slots around an A/C.

[Yosharian]

Wait so the 1AA's PPC quirks work 100% for the ERPPC as well?

[Hardac]

The Vindi needs some serious love. The engine cap needs to be bumped up on all but the 1AA. The 1AA is the only one I feel is nearly good enough as it is. It could use some quirks to buff leg armor/structure so it could poptart a bit more without constantly worrying about blowing out a kneecap on landing.

The 1R could be halfway decent if not for the 235 engine cap. It needs something to give it some real flavor though. As it stands it's just a very bland, slow medium that can't sport enough firepower to save itself from any other mediums or lights. The result of which is huddling behind bigger mechs and hoping you're not noticed when you slowly, SLOWLY, VERY VERY SLOWLY dash out to take pot shots at the Direwolf methodically maiming your whole team.

The 1X is a train wreck. It's slow. It's hardpoints are crap. The 235 engine cap guarantees that you will spend most of the match near overheating or shut down putting out stupidly low amounts of damage. On really hot maps it's just incredibly sad. The three ballistics points are pointless because MG's are pointless and that's the only thing you're going to get three of on that arm. I'd rather the 1X had some crazy ERPPC quirks. 7 tons for a single major weapon system hampered by a absolutely moronic range penalty is doubly moronic to use on something that runs ridiculously hot and can't move fast enough to save it's life. It's bad and PGI should feel bad it's been left to die in the gutter, friendless and unknown.

I'm not joking about the unknown part. I'm one of the few people who still run a Vindi and that's the 1AA. I never see them anymore. I can't remember the last time I saw someone in the Saint Ives.