143 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Suicide is the most cowardly way to quit a match and falls under the non-participating clause of the CoC.

Simply put, you're playing a game with other people. Do them the courtesy of being a good sport if you lose. Don't leave the "table" before the game's over to prevent them from fully winning; that's not how games work in RL and it's not how this one should.

[TWIAFU]

Mystere, on 16 June 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

People always miss, or conveniently ignore, one very important caveat: it only applies during instances of non-participation. In other words, you are in violation only if you did not participate in the fight.




See above.

Not sure if I follow, early, lack of coffee and such....

Are you saying it is ok to go out of bounds if you fought at least once during the drop? So long as you participated you can willfully suicide and/or go out of bounds??

[TWIAFU]

Alistair Winter, on 17 June 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:

I really wish tactical retreat was a part of this game. I know we can't have total realism, but it just feels very far removed from real warfare when your teammates are chanting for you to kill yourself so they can move on to the next match.

That being said, I'm not sure how you would be able to implement a tactical retreat in a game like this. It seems like getting the dropships to drop off mechs was a huge undertaking, so I can't imagine how many years it would take before we could actually board dropships and fly to safety, like the intro of MW2:Mercs.

You could just let people power down outside the boundaries of the map and then slowly fade them to invisibility, I suppose. It would suck if they just stood outside the boundaries of the map in full visibility, like the MWO equivalent of a 'free parking' spot in Monopoly.

Of course, some people would abuse it. Some people would just run off the map whenever they were losing. But that's an inevitable problem of 12v12 anyway. As soon as your team is down 0-4, people give up. They either suicide, run off to chase an isolated target or just go to hide and power down. At least we would have a lot fewer matches where 23 players are waiting because some Spider powered down somewhere.

Those players that want you to kill yourself for wasting their time are wasting it themselves. They CHOOSE to stay. They can hit ESC>Quit Match and start the next one.

PGI knows letting people go out of bounds is a can of worms that they do not need to open. That is why they have clearly stated that willful and repeated going out of bounds is a no-no, no exceptions.

That means you cannot shoot one MG round, hit something to participate, and then run out of bounds.

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 June 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

Like I said I don't think people who always run out of bounds should get a pass but I reserve the option when the other team is being unsportsmanlike. Just watch the chat window. If you see bragging, put downs or the team acting like peacocks I am not giving them the score.

It's a two way street. If you want a good fair fight I am always game. If your into Steamrolls and put downs expect to be denied.

Why I disabled All Chat the moment I was able to.

Makes for better games.

[InspectorG]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 June 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

Fragile? So admitting defeat and leaving the field of battle is a fragile Ego? Whats the saying about discretion and valor?

You lose nothing by dying...other than KDR which in the context of the game is not the best performance metric.

There is no R&R - you get a fresh mech each drop.

No Discretion or Valor needed. NOTHING IS LOST. Pilot lives. Mech is 100% next match. NOTHING TO LOSE by going out fighting. In fact, you may actually be able to win. You would never know if you tuck tail and run.

Again, if one opts to 'tactically retreat' knowing they lose nothing and will have a replenished mech next drop regardless of win or lose...how is that not a 'fragile ego'?

This isnt BT with BV and R&R. Pilots dont die here.

[InspectorG]

Scenarios where a 'tactical retreat' would be a viable option:

On going campaigns where damage to your mech affects the next drop.

Campaigns where amassing forces at a location to draw an enemy out, then to retreat and leave them exposed.

Campaigns where an attrition tactic is used to spread an enemies forces thin.

Guerrilla warfare.

If R&R was implemented, pilots would have to weight the literal costs of victory.

In a campaign and/or if R&R was implemented, pilots/teams would have to weigh retreat vs cost of marginal or decisive victories.

Since we have NONE of those in MWO, why retreat?

Only reason i see in MWO to retreat is if you were facing a team of goons, or were on a team of goons.

Other team wants to bad mouth my team as we get steamrolled...doesnt bother me. I can get mouthy just as well and i usually just laugh it off which takes some of their fun away.

[Percimes]

If it's not allowed in any circumstances, why do maps are not walled to prevent escape? Why are they designed with "exits" and a game mechanic was programmed to deal with people using them? Why bother with all this if you won't permit it within the game rules?

[Agent 0 Fortune]

These players don't concern me as much as the the hide-and-powerdown players.
These players at least have the common courtesy to not make everyone wait on them for 15 minutes.

I guess the question is what do people expect to gain by forcing a player to stay in a match? The solution is to encourage players to stay in the match. For instance, forfeit rewards when self suiciding (out of bounds or heat).

[Mystere]

TWIAFU, on 17 June 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

Not sure if I follow, early, lack of coffee and such....

Are you saying it is ok to go out of bounds if you fought at least once during the drop? So long as you participated you can willfully suicide and/or go out of bounds??

Yes. And people don't even have to do it for their precious KDR or other similar reasons. Player can do it simply to deny the enemy a kill, XP, GXP, c-bills, or whatever resource they like to farm. Why should someone hand over their hide to the enemy on a silver platter?

InspectorG, on 17 June 2015 - 05:27 AM, said:

You lose nothing by dying...other than KDR which in the context of the game is not the best performance metric.

There is no R&R - you get a fresh mech each drop.

No Discretion or Valor needed. NOTHING IS LOST. Pilot lives. Mech is 100% next match. NOTHING TO LOSE by going out fighting. In fact, you may actually be able to win. You would never know if you tuck tail and run.

Again, if one opts to 'tactically retreat' knowing they lose nothing and will have a replenished mech next drop regardless of win or lose...how is that not a 'fragile ego'?

This isnt BT with BV and R&R. Pilots dont die here.

Ah! But there is something to lose -- for the enemy. The enemy will lose the kill, XP, GXP, and c-bills they believe is rightfully theirs by offering your hide on a silver platter.

Why else would they very loudly complain?

Edited by Mystere, 17 June 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Like I have said before...

Suicide in MWO should be considered a team kill and you should suffer the penalties associated with such.

This means no....running out of bounds, overheating to blow yourself up and jumping so high as to double leg yourself.

Other games have suicide penalties, this game should be no exception.

[Water Bear]

I would say "use the forum search before posting," but the OP appears to be aware that countless threads about this topic already exist. The only thing the OP adds to the discussion is the...extremely questionable argument that out-of-boundsing is OK because of a fluff reason.

Water Bear Copy-Paste response number 1: I've already posted about this and said everything I have to say in previous threads. As has basically everyone else.

[Mystere]

GreyNovember, on 17 June 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

On the other side of the coin, if you've already clearly lost the match, why would you make it more difficult for someone else?

Let me turn that around on its head. Why should I make it easy?

Nightmare1, on 17 June 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

Suicide is the most cowardly way to quit a match and falls under the non-participating clause of the CoC.

Simply put, you're playing a game with other people. Do them the courtesy of being a good sport if you lose. Don't leave the "table" before the game's over to prevent them from fully winning; that's not how games work in RL and it's not how this one should.

That's because you see/play MWO as a "sport". I and many others don't.

[Water Bear]

Nightmare1, on 17 June 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

that's not how games work in RL and it's not how this one should.

I told myself I Wouldn't post but...

Actually games do work that way in real life. See baseball, and the mercy rule. See professional fighting sports. You do not get to wail on an unconscious opponent, or one who has intentionally left the ring.

Also I have never played a card or computer game where I couldn't surrender. I wait with baited breath for the day when I say, "ok you win" at a game of Magic and my opponent says "sit your ass down, you still have 3 life left." The answer he gets will be no.

Double edit: That's not completely true, Unreal Tournament doesn't have a surrender, but that's why god gave me the ability to disconnect.

Edited by Water Bear, 17 June 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[KHETTI]

Meh, PGI needs to add a tactical retreat option at the start of the game.
I use running out of bounds as a tactical retreat, you know those games where your team is made up of underhivelings running their heavies and assaults and struggling to do any damage at all.
Yeah the same thing thats currently forced me to pretty much just run lights, except in my light i outscore the heavier mechs because i didnt derp into the enemy team one by one!.
Reasons like this is why people get tired of derp teams and just run out of bounds, cos the games been a waste of time.

[Lord Perversor]

I just want a Self destruct sequence, even if it takes like 10-15 sec to happen and capable to blow nearly mechs with a nice Blast...

Why i can't try to go out in a glorious blaze of vengeance??

[Water Bear]

KHETTI, on 17 June 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Meh, PGI needs to add a tactical retreat option at the start of the game.

I don't know about all that but it would be nice to have a retreat option such that if all players on a team have opted to retreat, the match ends in a victory for the enemy. I would be interested to see how the player base would respond to such a thing. K/D would sure go up especially for light mechs, that's for sure.

[TWIAFU]

Percimes, on 17 June 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

If it's not allowed in any circumstances, why do maps are not walled to prevent escape? Why are they designed with "exits" and a game mechanic was programmed to deal with people using them? Why bother with all this if you won't permit it within the game rules?

They are walled with clear to see out of bounds markers. Plus the heads up display.

When you go out of bounds you are given a count down to get back in before you are killed. There is the programming to deal with people using them.

If you try to "exit', you are killed, suicide.

[Mystere]

Lord Perversor, on 17 June 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

I just want a Self destruct sequence, even if it takes like 10-15 sec to happen and capable to blow nearly mechs with a nice Blast...

Why i can't try to go out in a glorious blaze of vengeance??

Vengeance, or defiance?

[Lord Perversor]

Mystere, on 17 June 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Vengeance, or defiance?

Both works..
but Laughing as a maniac in order to make them pay the loss of my beautiful weapons/arms it's more of a vengeance than a defiance imho

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Suiciding your mech in the pub queue is a douchebag move.

The Pub Queue has one thing going for it, the attaining of C-bills.

If you suicide, you are DENYING c-bills earned to the enemy team. To players who have bested you in combat and you have decided you are too whiny to award them what they earned.

Don't suicide in pug queue.

[Appogee]

Average Pilot, on 16 June 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

In the end, the outnumbered player will only give opposing players more salvage money and a kill.

And what harm would that be, exactly...?

You don't pay the CBills or salvage. PGI does. So your selfish action denies an enemy some mild reduction in CBill grind ... for absolutely no benefit to you. And if you run off out of bounds, as you said, when your team is down 8-1, you're also preventing your three surviving friendlies from getting further kills, and pulling off a rare but thrilling victory, which is even worse.

There is no doubt, no lingering question, no grey area in PGI's stance on the matter. There is no valid excuse, no rationale, no sporting analogy, no real life acceptable military precedent, no permissable gaming equivalent, no overriding moral imperative, no "if" or "but" or "maybe". PGI have been very clear about this. In writing, For all players to see.

Deliberately running out of bounds is not allowed. This is clearly stated clearly in MWO's Code of Conduct.

So stop doing it, stop making excuses for it, and stop pretending there's any doubt about it.

Edited by Appogee, 17 June 2015 - 08:44 AM.