351 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 July 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'll see that Thunder Hawk and raise a Gausszilla!:

You are a bad bad man Joseph, one of your better qualities I think

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 30 June 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

I've learned it's hard to get a proper paperdoll fully loaded before blowing someone away with a headshot...added 5 to the achievement tonight, but only captured 3. Two have no paperdoll info at all...which makes them pointless to show...

Kinda annoyed...because I think one was a perfect example on an Atlas...too late to bother with it now. I might have to fix a PeaceDove up, to get those extra 3/9% with a TC1 and an AP to speed up target acquisition, combined with ATG, for a significant decrease in time. Feels bad having 10 wasted tons, though.



Looks like he had some damage, hard to tell just how much though.

Multiple headshots were had this round (though MGs don't count towards this goal)...but one issue



They die too fast for the screen to update. Also feel bad for ruining his fun.

Some constructive criticism.


1) That Loki wasn't much longer for this world anyway, head shot or not, he would have likely died if you went CT.

2) That, Orion?, was just standing still in the tunnel. Why?



If players stand still, they desrve whatever they get - there's nothing to feel bad about.



Lastly, so far I think all of your videos are at very close ranges - this is a far cry from the concerns of being headshot across the map by an "unlucky" shot.




So I think you're doing a good service so far.

Teaching players not to stand still, not to shave their head armor and not to face stare enemies with 30 tons of Gauss rifles.

[Mcgral18]

Ultimatum X, on 01 July 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

So I think you're doing a good service so far.

Teaching players not to stand still, not to shave their head armor and not to face stare enemies with 30 tons of Gauss rifles.

I'm just going for the Guillotine achievement at this point.

7.5% of the way there. Hopefully get a better example along the way.


But, I'll reiterate...the hardest thing is actually getting the paperdoll readout before they die. I'll have to try stacking all 3 bonuses on a Warhawk, and it might be enough (while also moving faster).



Not sure if he remembers, but last weekend I blew Heimdelights Loki's cockpit out from ~200M. No video or paperdoll (for multiple reasons) but maybe he could clarify if he remembers it and how much armour he had. Even better if he had video.

But, 5 headshots in a gaming session, let's see if I can do that a few more times.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mcgral18, on 01 July 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

I'm just going for the Guillotine achievement at this point.

7.5% of the way there. Hopefully get a better example along the way.


But, I'll reiterate...the hardest thing is actually getting the paperdoll readout before they die. I'll have to try stacking all 3 bonuses on a Warhawk, and it might be enough (while also moving faster).



Not sure if he remembers, but last weekend I blew Heimdelights Loki's cockpit out from ~200M. No video or paperdoll (for multiple reasons) but maybe he could clarify if he remembers it and how much armour he had. Even better if he had video.

But, 5 headshots in a gaming session, let's see if I can do that a few more times.

Getting that paperdoll info is usually the hardest thing when getting headshots, you see the victim, you target them, you fire, they are dead and it's all over before the sensors get a lock.

5 in a single session, damn McGral, best I've gotten is 4 in a session, excellent aim, definitely a Clan Trueborn!

[Scratx]

Headshots aren't a problem in this game.

In fact, the reverse is more the truth. Headshots are incredibly rare.

So rare I find myself stripping a few points off my own head armor more often than not. And... I still don't die from headshots even then.

If anything, I think PGI shrunk the hitboxes too much. As is, I actually prefer not to hit the enemy head component so my damage actually applies to the CT, since I'm highly unlikely to score on the cockpit again to finish it off anyway...

[Mcgral18]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 July 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Getting that paperdoll info is usually the hardest thing when getting headshots, you see the victim, you target them, you fire, they are dead and it's all over before the sensors get a lock.

5 in a single session, damn McGral, best I've gotten is 4 in a session, excellent aim, definitely a Clan Trueborn!

I should clarify, not match, but over a dozen+ matches. I'll have to try TC1, AP, TIG (That's what it's called!...apparently I have 4 of them.) for that impressive 73.5% reduction in target acquisition.


Although I kinda want to see what happens with you get a larger TC and over 100% info gathering time...

Edited by Mcgral18, 01 July 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mcgral18, on 01 July 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

I should clarify, not match, but over a dozen matches. I'll have to try TC1, AP, TIG (That's what it's called!...apparently I have 4 of them.) for that impressive 73.5% reduction in target acquisition.


Although I kinda want to see what happens with you get a larger TC and over 100% info gathering time...

I understood you meant multiple matches in a session, best I've gotten in a single drop was 3, and that was ALL the headshots I got over the entire night. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, you can't get those damn cockpits, other times, you snap off a quick slapshot and BOOM!

5 in a single session is pretty damn good, unless you are popping disconnects, I never count those myself.

[Mcgral18]

Alright, at 200M (testing grounds) it takes ~3-4 seconds to get TI, while with the stacked 72.5% decrease, it goes to around 1 second.


Now, 125% bonus (TC7+AP+TIG) gives you instantaneous locks at 250M.
Instant locks at 800M, wow. Pointless in game, but I was always curious but never tested. Even 1KM has instant info...

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 July 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I understood you meant multiple matches in a session, best I've gotten in a single drop was 3, and that was ALL the headshots I got over the entire night. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, you can't get those damn cockpits, other times, you snap off a quick slapshot and BOOM!

5 in a single session is pretty damn good, unless you are popping disconnects, I never count those myself.

No, no discoes. A shut down target or two, but mainly (as seen above) stationary not so great players. Also headshot+arty...but those aren't really in the spirit of this science. Still count for the achievement, though.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Mcgral18, on 01 July 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

Alright, at 200M (testing grounds) it takes ~3-4 seconds to get TI, while with the stacked 72.5% decrease, it goes to around 1 second.


Now, 125% bonus (TC7+AP+TIG) gives you instantaneous locks at 250M.
Instant locks at 800M, wow. Pointless in game, but I was always curious but never tested. Even 1KM has instant info...



No, no discoes. A shut down target or two, but mainly (as seen above) stationary not so great players. Also headshot+arty...but those aren't really in the spirit of this science. Still count for the achievement, though.

I run a Mk 7 on my Dire with dual Gauss, it's INSTANT target info, but I don't get too many headshots on Mechs I have targeted, it's usually that silly Light that goes zipping by that I just snap off a quick shot and BOOM! Hackusation, crying, whining, and me laughing at someone going off about me getting a totally 1000% luck headshot.

My King Crab, sadly, doesn't get sensor info very quickly, so I've usually popped the head before I get any target info. May have to pull my Dire out and do some practice on the headshots myself, I do want that title to be honest

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 01 July 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 01 July 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

Not sure if he remembers, but last weekend I blew Heimdelights Loki's cockpit out from ~200M. No video or paperdoll (for multiple reasons) but maybe he could clarify if he remembers it and how much armour he had. Even better if he had video.

That's pretty amusing, because I headshot him as well in his HBR on Tourmaline at like 300m and I think it was last weekend as well.

I got roflstomped within 10s after that, but it was a pretty funny moment.

[Sovery_Simple]

So the criticism went from "pffft, bull, won't happen in a real match with moving players trying to avoid damage" to "pfft, that target was going to die anyways"?

Amusing.

Also, rng death isn't too palatable, would be nice to just tweak the crit on gauss for heads, that way gauss users can stay happy that it's still a zero heat death cannon for every other body part on a mech, and it removes this insta-gib element from circulation.

(Not even going to touch the "all the gauss drawbacks1!11!" and "it's 30 tons11?1!!" arguments, or it'll turn into a flame war if we get a critical hit) :<

[Torric]

Funny to see how different player experiences are. So there are players that can reliably take out cockpits, while for me it seems like i am forced to go for center of mass and be happy when damage registers ANYWHERE on that enemy mech.

[Ultimax]

Whoops, on 04 July 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

So the criticism went from "pffft, bull, won't happen in a real match with moving players trying to avoid damage" to "pfft, that target was going to die anyways"?

Who said it "won't happen"? Of course it happens, it's still rare.


I like how McGral is going about this, even if I personally feel the headshots are fine.


The point is, that headshotting people at 300m really ins't much different than getting behind them in a light mech and taking their backout.




If we want to consider whether Dual Gauss headshots are actually a problem, they need to be presented as an actual problem.


If it takes players getting inside 300m to even be remotely consistent with it, using what is otherwise a 660m range weapon - oh wait, 2x 660M range weapons at THIRTY TONS average - I'm still fine with it.



McGral is actively trying to get headshots and managed to add 5 more headshots when he reported back here - he's a good player though, and I'll go out on a limb and guess he had at least 25 to 30 (and probably more) non-headshot kills in the same time frame that it took to acquire those headshots in the same time frame.



So no, I still don't see this as an issue.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 July 2015 - 05:46 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Ultimatum X, on 04 July 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

The point is, that headshotting people at 300m really ins't much different than getting behind them in a light mech and taking their backout.

Here we've got one at 800M, and he didn't rage quit and answered how much armour.


Only 12 points of armour, which explains 800M. Theoretically, out to 700 or so meters it should work because there's 1.5 extra damage, so some falloff is allowed, but not much.


But 12 allows for 1 shotting past optimal range with certainty.




Also...I feel like this quality is worse than usual...I'm not sure what happened.

Edited by Mcgral18, 06 July 2015 - 09:59 AM.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 06 July 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

Here we've got one at 800M, and he didn't rage quit and answered how much armour.


Only 12 points of armour, which explains 800M. Theoretically, out to 700 or so meters it should work because there's 1.5 extra damage, so some falloff is allowed, but not much.


But 12 allows for 1 shotting past optimal range with certainty.


http://youtu.be/fyCvUzf2e2A


Also...I feel like this quality is worse than usual...I'm not sure what happened.

Then you taught that player a valuable lesson about head armor, and why they should not be reducing it to 12.

It also means that the DG with or without critical hit would have killed him regardless - i.e. not the actual thrust of your thread.


He gained a total of 0.16 tons of usable pod space by shaving his cockpit down.


That's a bad choice, and bad choices should be punished.




Great shot btw.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 06 July 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Ultimatum X, on 06 July 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

Then you taught that player a valuable lesson about head armor, and why they should not be reducing it to 12.

It also means that the DG with or without critical hit would have killed him regardless - i.e. not the actual thrust of your thread.


He gained a total of 0.16 tons of usable pod space by shaving his cockpit down.


That's a bad choice, and bad choices should be punished.




Great shot btw.

Mainly in reference to the distance. Clearly possible at greater distances than 300M.


I wonder if a larger monitor would make it easier...mechs are pretty much a blob at that distance.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 06 July 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

Mainly in reference to the distance. Clearly possible at greater distances than 300M.


I wonder if a larger monitor would make it easier...mechs are pretty much a blob at that distance.

Possible is not in question, certainly possible.

Problematic or not is a question, critical hit system mechanics is a question.

Consistently repeatable at long range is a question.


So far I'm still in the "I'm fine with it" camp.

[Hit the Deck]

That was a great and lucky shot! Actually, IMO two Gauss projectiles should punch right through the ferro-glass and outright kill the pilot sitting inside the cockpit. It's somewhat funny that BattleMechs have this big "windscreen" covering the cockpit but maybe in the '80s the artists didn't know better.

Yes, I base my judgement on the looks of the 'Mechs.

[Scorch454]

As usual people complaining or trying to change things that doesn't need to be changed.

The ONLY way to get one shotted is a head shot or from the rear if you have most of your armor stripped. Head shots are so rare but from what some of you are all saying, you guys do it all the time, which at this time I am raising the BS flag! I have been head shot maybe 10 times in the few years I have been playing this game and most of the pilots I run with it is the same. A rare occurrence people.

OR...Is this one of the those "someone killed me with "insert reason here" so PGI should nerf it so that doesn't happen to me again?

[Mcgral18]

Scorch Radick, on 06 July 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

As usual people complaining or trying to change things that doesn't need to be changed.

The ONLY way to get one shotted is a head shot or from the rear if you have most of your armor stripped. Head shots are so rare but from what some of you are all saying, you guys do it all the time, which at this time I am raising the BS flag! I have been head shot maybe 10 times in the few years I have been playing this game and most of the pilots I run with it is the same. A rare occurrence people.

OR...Is this one of the those "someone killed me with "insert reason here" so PGI should nerf it so that doesn't happen to me again?

No, this is a curiosity thing.


People generally seem indifferent, or support Instagibbing. Reddit is fully in support of it, they are against discussions, though.


People seem against asking opinions, though.

Edited by Mcgral18, 06 July 2015 - 10:18 AM.