351 replies to this topic

[Rocket2Uranus]

I remember back in 2012-2013 you could get headshotted by LRMs lol.

[CDLord HHGD]

Nightmare1, on 07 April 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

Realistically, PGI would never do the second half of what you suggest and we'd wind up with just nerfed weapons, lol. Eventually, some would get buffed, but all we would get is a broken game.

Right now, the weapons are fine where they are and just need minor tweaks. No need to scrap the system and start over.

We have a broken game NOW. All I am saying is return all weapons to their TT stats for damage, heat, weight, and size. Then if lazors are prominent because reasons, define those reasons specifically be it light relative weight or something else, then either increase their heat generation straight up (not no ghost heat BS) and buff the other weapons to make them more enticing up to and including another increase in armor (as it was already doubled once proving PGI cares about TTK).

We've got too many layered bandaids right now. It's better to strip it off, clean the wound, and rewrap it. Starting from scratch will allow PGI to implement the things they learned and to not implement the things that didn't work (GH) from a clean slate instead of just adding another bandaid.

[Nightmare1]

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 07 April 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

We have a broken game NOW. All I am saying is return all weapons to their TT stats for damage, heat, weight, and size. Then if lazors are prominent because reasons, define those reasons specifically be it light relative weight or something else, then either increase their heat generation straight up (not no ghost heat BS) and buff the other weapons to make them more enticing up to and including another increase in armor (as it was already doubled once proving PGI cares about TTK).

We've got too many layered bandaids right now. It's better to strip it off, clean the wound, and rewrap it. Starting from scratch will allow PGI to implement the things they learned and to not implement the things that didn't work (GH) from a clean slate instead of just adding another bandaid.

The game is hardly broken; it's actually about the best rendition of BattleTech/MechWarrior that I've seen.

As for what you're saying about TT, it's time to let TT go. TT is a turn-based, RNG-based, board game. It doesn't translate well into a real-time video game with an FPS/Simulator format. Adhering stringently to TT is not good for the health of MWO; it's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

As for reworking weapon values, I personally think that they're fine where they're at. TTK is pretty good right now in 1v1s, which is how it should be measured. Plus, PGI is going to release Power Draw reasonably soon, so there's no sense in clamoring for a total overhaul of the weapons system when we don't even know yet how Power Draw will impact the game. Undoubtedly, there will be a need for some rebalance once P.D. goes live, so there's no sense in making such a rebalance more difficult by doing total system overhaul ahead of it.

As for Ghost Heat, there's zero reason to have that in the game and it does need to go. Hopefully, P.D. will be a good fix to replace it.

Have a little patience and realism. You come across as whining and out of touch with the game. Do you even read PGI's updates and such? If you did, you'd know that they're already addressing your so-called problem.

[The Image]

Cara Carcass, on 07 April 2016 - 02:29 AM, said:

HA! 53% Im closing in on you. The distance has been larger when you posted your 400th headshot.
My MWO games have a purpose now.

Well as people start to recognize you in matches, you're probably going to start experiencing what I've witnessed happening tie Dimento: 12 enemies ignoring EVERYONE else and focusing him until he's dead

Many is the time I've heard "****, it's Dimento look for the crab and kill it first" over commas at the beginning of a match in the group queue. It's funny watching my team members pass up easier, closer targets just to shoot him.

[Nightmare1]

DrPetPyroShark, on 07 April 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Well as people start to recognize you in matches, you're probably going to start experiencing what I've witnessed happening tie Dimento: 12 enemies ignoring EVERYONE else and focusing him until he's dead

Many is the time I've heard "****, it's Dimento look for the crab and kill it first" over commas at the beginning of a match in the group queue. It's funny watching my team members pass up easier, closer targets just to shoot him.

I don't think that I've ever seen Dimento in game before, but now I shall devote my full might and focus to annihilating him if I do, just so that this custom does not die.

It's important to preserve cultural customs such as these! I AM A CULTURE WARRIOR, THEREFORE, DIMENTO MUST DIE!!!

[CDLord HHGD]

Nightmare1, on 07 April 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

The game is hardly broken; it's actually about the best rendition of BattleTech/MechWarrior that I've seen.

As for what you're saying about TT, it's time to let TT go. TT is a turn-based, RNG-based, board game. It doesn't translate well into a real-time video game with an FPS/Simulator format. Adhering stringently to TT is not good for the health of MWO; it's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

As for reworking weapon values, I personally think that they're fine where they're at. TTK is pretty good right now in 1v1s, which is how it should be measured. Plus, PGI is going to release Power Draw reasonably soon, so there's no sense in clamoring for a total overhaul of the weapons system when we don't even know yet how Power Draw will impact the game. Undoubtedly, there will be a need for some rebalance once P.D. goes live, so there's no sense in making such a rebalance more difficult by doing total system overhaul ahead of it.

As for Ghost Heat, there's zero reason to have that in the game and it does need to go. Hopefully, P.D. will be a good fix to replace it.

Have a little patience and realism. You come across as whining and out of touch with the game. Do you even read PGI's updates and such? If you did, you'd know that they're already addressing your so-called problem.

Time to let the assumptions about what people talk about when they mention TT go..... I have never advocated a stringent adherence to TT. I read your repost of what so many others have said about TT and I'm half-way between "no sh*t sherlock but that's not what i said" and "did he even read what I said or just "picked out "TT" and started frothing at the mouth?". Obviously "turn based" isn't gonna work in MWO but those aren't the mechanics I reference.

[Nightmare1]

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 07 April 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

Time to let the assumptions about what people talk about when they mention TT go..... I have never advocated a stringent adherence to TT. I read your repost of what so many others have said about TT and I'm half-way between "no sh*t sherlock but that's not what i said" and "did he even read what I said or just "picked out "TT" and started frothing at the mouth?". Obviously "turn based" isn't gonna work in MWO but those aren't the mechanics I reference.

I'm not frothing kiddo. I also never said that you were advocating for turn-based mechanics. I was simply pointing out the difference in game dynamics between MWO and TT. TT combat values were optimized for RNG-based play; MWO is not RNG-based though, which is why it doesn't make sense to return to full TT combat values even as a "starting point."

If you can't see that, and can only "froth at the mouth," then I'm sorry. I don't really have patience for kids like you that get this upset over simple points of truth. If you had bothered to read my post, you would have seen that I recommended patience. PGI has Power Draw in the works, so, even if your notion was a good one (sorry kid; it isn't), then it still wouldn't make sense to pursue it until after Power Draw has been implemented and its effects on gameplay analyzed.

Patience kiddo; PGI is slow to get things done, but they are making progress. Let's wait and see what P.D. does before we clamor for additional radical changes to gameplay. Personally, I think that P.D. will fix most folks' complaints about insta-gibbing.

[Escef]

JigglyMoobs, on 06 April 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

What about when rngeesus fondles your face and every other part of you by stacking the teams for a 12-0 roll?

That's not the matchmaker's fault. That's the fault of the team for not being a team.

CD LoreHammer Lord, on 07 April 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

We have a broken game NOW. All I am saying is return all weapons to their TT stats for damage, heat, weight, and size.

All weapons are at TT weight and size.

And back in closed beta they tried TT stats. Guess what happened? It didn't work well, that's what happened.

[Nightmare1]

Escef, on 07 April 2016 - 10:49 AM, said:

That's not the matchmaker's fault. That's the fault of the team for not being a team.



All weapons are at TT weight and size.

And back in closed beta they tried TT stats. Guess what happened? It didn't work well, that's what happened.

Bingo.

[Khobai]

dual gauss headshots are fine. they require skill at range to pull off or they require you to shut down in front of someone with dual gauss.

whats not fine are artillery headshots. artillery damage needs to be reduced so it cant one shot mechs.

[Dimento Graven]

DrPetPyroShark, on 07 April 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Well as people start to recognize you in matches, you're probably going to start experiencing what I've witnessed happening tie Dimento: 12 enemies ignoring EVERYONE else and focusing him until he's dead

Many is the time I've heard "****, it's Dimento look for the crab and kill it first" over commas at the beginning of a match in the group queue. It's funny watching my team members pass up easier, closer targets just to shoot him.

Nightmare1, on 07 April 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

I don't think that I've ever seen Dimento in game before, but now I shall devote my full might and focus to annihilating him if I do, just so that this custom does not die.

It's important to preserve cultural customs such as these! I AM A CULTURE WARRIOR, THEREFORE, DIMENTO MUST DIE!!!

It absolutely feels like this, especially lately, after my 500th headshot giveaway event, when a lot of people were looking to drop with me.

DEFINITELY I see people I'm facing with my 'mech ABSOLUTELY start torso twisting like crazy-jitterbuggin'-mofo's!

[Mcgral18]

Yosharian, on 07 April 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I respect the amount of work you put into this, but for me I just don't get headshot that often. When it does happen I'm usually too impressed by the enemy pilot's skill (or luck) to get too angry, although it is a little annoying. Anyway it seems like a non-issue to me.

At this point, it's mainly the Gauss Rifle being a better 'Crit Weapon' than the Crit Weapons themselves.
The LBx series needs 5 crits to all land on the same crit slot, while the Gauss needs 1 (which WILL all hit the same slot no matter what).
The Gauss needs 1 when there's 14 armour protecting that component, because of the FLD Crit Advantage.

I guess fixing that part alone also fixes my request, by working properly (instead of always critting for max, critting for what actually hits structure).

Romeo Deluxe, on 07 April 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

A little bit off topic but been long wondering, Targetting Computer I good to throw in wherever you can? TC II, III?
Where does diminishing returns play in.

Using a TC1 wherever you can is a safe bet.
In the case of Gauss, it bumps you from the base Crit chance of 42% up to 50%. For the instagib headshot, from 17% to 20.3% in the case of Dual Gauss.

TC7 brings that to 22.5%...not a terribly large improvement. For All crits (not just the 2 at once) it brings you to 55.5% chance.
AKA, 11.5% off any of the Crit Weapons, while being a far better Crit Weapon in reality.

When they buffed the TC7, they also buffed the TC1, which is a silly move to make.


Arguments towards the cockpit also count towards the AC20, at 18 HP, percentage wise, but in this case any component with less than 30 armour has the 20% chance to be destroyed instantly. Any item (including crit-padding actuators) have the 50% chance to die once you reach 29 armour.


That's my issue. Crit Weapons being terrible at Crits, with FLD being the best. Not as much of an issue anymore, and my only complaint is the Gauss, as it doesn't have the short range, high heat or slow travel speed of all the others. Nor are PPCs any good, on top of being hot and slow.

Edited by Mcgral18, 07 April 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Mcgral18, on 07 April 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

...

That's my issue. Crit Weapons being terrible at Crits, with FLD being the best. Not as much of an issue anymore, and my only complaint is the Gauss, as it doesn't have the short range, high heat or slow travel speed of all the others. Nor are PPCs any good, on top of being hot and slow.

Yeah but what you're trading off to equip gauss is pretty significant. Only the DWF can equip dual gauss and a crap ton of other weapons for a significant over abundant ALL RANGE alpha.

Every other 'mech (of those very few that CAN actually effectively equip dual gauss) is trading SPEED, ARMOR, AMMO, DURABILITY to equip dual gauss. Not to mention the slowest reload in the game, with a LONG reload and then charge up cycle to deal with, with every shot. Let's also not forget about the huge size with all the crit slot locations waiting to be hit to enjoy that 90% explosion chance (god forbid you equip it in a Jaeger with an XL engine).

I'm not counting single gauss builds into the equation, because, unless you've done something extremely stupidly wrong, or you're just extremely stupidly unlucky, you're NEVER going to be 'insta-gibbed' by a SINGLE gauss round.

My favorite dual gauss build platform, the KGC, has the most even distribution of compromises for speed, durability, armor, and ammo. It clocks in at an "amazing" 56.6kph, carries 5 WHOLE TONS of ammo, and is NOT fully armored. It also has NO command couch, NO AMS, no CASE, and NO XL. All of that, PLUS the fact that it has a FRONT CT that can be hit 360 degrees vertically or horizontally, well, it's the epitome of specialized function through compromise.

Considering that MOST of the 'mechs it now faces regularly are either CLAN (with all the Clan bene's), or are IS 'mechs with significant torso quirkage, it is ABSOLUTELY "squishy" in brawling situations.

The fact that simply targeting the right side can MORE than halve its alpha potential... Yeah, it's gotten rather 'tricky' to pilot one effectively. I've been considering running the DWF of late, just because of the additional durability Clan tech affords (plus all the bene's and huge secondary alpha I can stack), but have held off because, at the very least the KGC .

[Wintersdark]

Mcgral18, on 07 April 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

That's my issue. Crit Weapons being terrible at Crits, with FLD being the best. Not as much of an issue anymore, and my only complaint is the Gauss, as it doesn't have the short range, high heat or slow travel speed of all the others. Nor are PPCs any good, on top of being hot and slow.

This is a very valid complaint, but I argue the target of your ire should be the crit system itself, not the Gauss rifle. The crit system is badly in need of an overhauls.

The whole thing is misleading and terrible. Very few people understand how the system even works - even roughly - it's a black box for 99% of players. People hear "crit weapons" and think that's a good thing, despite crit weapons all being the worst weapons in the game, AND terrible at their stated goal to boot.

Altering things for the Gauss rifle could bandaid it in that case, but leaves you in a similar situation if PPC's rise in favour again, etc, etc.

[Mystere]

Rocket2Uranus, on 07 April 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

I remember back in 2012-2013 you could get headshotted by LRMs lol.

And because of all the vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that caused, Mechs now have magic force fields protecting cockpits from missiles.

[Dimento Graven]

Mystere, on 07 April 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

And because of all the vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that caused, Mechs now have magic force fields protecting cockpits from missiles.

Don't forget the LRM/SRM "crit averse" hit detection. It's always fun watching someone getting bathed in LRMs with all spots flashing constantly until they're opened up, then magically, the flashing diminishes SIGNIFICANTLY.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

DrPetPyroShark, on 07 April 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Well as people start to recognize you in matches, you're probably going to start experiencing what I've witnessed happening tie Dimento: 12 enemies ignoring EVERYONE else and focusing him until he's dead

Many is the time I've heard "****, it's Dimento look for the crab and kill it first" over commas at the beginning of a match in the group queue. It's funny watching my team members pass up easier, closer targets just to shoot him.

Happens a lot already since i got my first few hundred headshots.

[Dimento Graven]

Cara Carcass, on 07 April 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

Happens a lot already since i got my first few hundred headshots.

Tonight was rough, but now I'm at 54%.

Literally had one of you yell out "I'm gonna kill you Dimento... Oh wait, you're on my team..."

Can't remember which of you yahoos it was, but again, your father smells of elderberries...

[Clint Steel]

Personally not a huge fan of random crit damage, except for explosions and the like. I don't see why the bullet from the gauss can do more than max damage sometimes. In TT I assume it was like your pilot was super accurate, here we are aiming so that shouldn't be factored in.

[Nightmare1]

Just to make sure we're all on the same page here, this is what one-shotting is:





This is what MechWarrior is:







Not so much one-shotty. Weapon overhauls are not required; just torso twist more effectively and don't try to take on the entire enemy team at one time. Or, if you can't do that, then wait for Power Draw. That should help with the focus firing to a certain extent.

As for strikes headshotting you, well, that's pilot error and not the fault of the strike. If you get hit by a strike, it's because you made a mistake. It's rare to take a direct shell strike now with all the nerfs, so all you really get is splash damage. The headshotting only occurs when you lose all your cockpit armor and the splash damage triggers a crit against your head. To prevent this, add armor to your cockpit. That should solve your problem entirely.