137 replies to this topic

[Twilight Fenrir]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

I just want to inderectly point out that missiles is apparently still the read headed stepchild. For example, when people mention about lack of hardpoints, they don't mean that the 'Mech can do better with more missiles. I find it kind of sad and hope that missiles get better

I love me some SRMs :3 I am going to murder EVERYONE with that JR7-IIC! You just kind of need at least 4 missile hardpoints on an assault to make them a focus. 3SRM6 is a good compliment to other weapons, but it does require other weapons...

[Pezzer]

I'm actually worried about the IICs being somewhat overpowered. I may buy them but I'm super on the fence, I have almost every other package already, I don't need to spend any more money on this game.

But at the same time, these new mechs are pretty affordable and I like the hardpoints. Grr, it's going to be a difficult one. I might refund Resistance II to pick these up, even.

[SilentSooYun]

IraqiWalker, on 01 July 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Yes, and clan omnis have built in case to mitigate that. Whereas IIC mechs have to put case in the STs, if they want to use XLs, and ammo weapons.

Do we know this? Is this something they announced, or is it just speculation?
I'm not saying you're wrong, just want to confirm if this is true or not.
As far as I'm aware, even IIC BattleMechs are Clan-level tech, meaning their armour is shaped at the factory to provide CASE protection. Same with Second-Line BattleMechs like the Kodiak.

[IraqiWalker]

SilentSooYun, on 09 July 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

Do we know this? Is this something they announced, or is it just speculation?
I'm not saying you're wrong, just want to confirm if this is true or not.
As far as I'm aware, even IIC BattleMechs are Clan-level tech, meaning their armour is shaped at the factory to provide CASE protection. Same with Second-Line BattleMechs like the Kodiak.

Built in case is more of an omni-mech thing. I could be wrong, we'll see.

[Mcgral18]

IraqiWalker, on 09 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Built in case is more of an omni-mech thing. I could be wrong, we'll see.

You can still add or remove Clan CASE, so I imagine they'd get the option for it (and why WOULDN'T you take Clam CASE?)

I guess it could be used as a balancing feature (Hunch IIC Dual Gauss) because it could damage the still armoured CT unless you take isCASE.

[Kain Demos]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

The Lowlander IIC, if you equip it with a Clan XL325, Endo, FF, and 3 JJs, will have 46 tons to spend on equipment. That's a shitload.


The Onion IIC will have 42.5 tons of equipment with a Clan XL300, Endo, and FF. If you use a bigger engine, of course you get less dakka but you get more maneuverability (and you'll still have plenty of firepower anyways).

With a XL325 you'll have 39 tons to spend, and with a XL350 you'll have 36 tons.

Basically we can biuld a Night Gyr without the JJs early. Different hardpoints/hitboxes though.

[Kain Demos]

Wildstreak, on 01 July 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Huge negative quirks, not too sure on any but the Jenner IIC needing that.

"Killer Dual Gauss Hunchback," ROFL. If you like glass cannons. Think I am wrong, back it up in the topic for it.

Yeah, huge negative quirks and they really will be DOA. I don't see the Hunchback being very threatening either--sure it looks scary on paper compared to the regular Hunchbacks but it won't have the positive quirks of the IS Hunchbacks.

As far as hitboxes go it will have TWO ridiculously easy hunches to explode and again, will not have the structure buffs of the IS variants.

The Orion IIC's hardpoint locations and how many it has aren't going to make it somehow better than the Timberwolf or Warhawk either.

Will the Highlander IIC really be any better or scarier than the Dire Wolf? I think not.

The Jenner IIC may be great but it also may be inferior to the 30 ton Arctic Cheetah.

[Hit the Deck]

Kain Demos, on 09 July 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

...
Will the Highlander IIC really be any better or scarier than the Dire Wolf? I think not.
....

So far, nothing can defeat the firepower of a Dire Wolf because it has the space, hardpoints (energy and ballistic), and ClanTech. Night Gyr would probably be the Heavy class equivalent (though its B and E hardpoints aren't as many as DW's).

What HGN-IIC can offer is space (because of IS construction rules) and jumping ability (3x JJs is decent enough). It can carry heavy weaponry (because of limited hardpoints) better than its IS counterpart:

HGN-IIC-C:

• 2x cUAC/10
  
• 3x cERML
  
• 2x cSRM6+A
  
• 3x JJs
  
• 7x DHS
  
• Firepower = 65, sustained DPS = 6.8, Cooling efficiency = 38%

This config, for example, would make a decent mobile (because of JJs) short-medium ranged fighter I think.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 10 July 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Twilight Fenrir, on 01 July 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Um... If your Hunchie IIC has dual Gauss, and runs 90kph, even with 0 armor on both arms and head, that gives you about 2 tons for ammo without brutalizing the armor you have left.... Good luck with that 300 damage max build. I'm sure you'll break the game balance in half...

Hmm? What's that? The Grid Iron fires a single gauss rifle twice at twice the normal rate? And can carry NINE tons of ammo while running 90kph? WITH a MPL for backup? And at almost full armor?

The HBK-IIC isn't even as powerful as the Grid Iron as a gauss build. It's not going to break the game... I can think of a few builds that will put it well aheqd of the curve, but it's not OP compared to what we have.

Well thats a bit exaggerated..

HBK-4G

That will have an extra ~0.5 tons due to clan FF being better, which is 29 tons. or Twin Gauss + 5T of ammo. Admittedly thats a bit light on ammo, and its likely to have the worst hitboxes of any mech ever, but.. i simply dont see how full customization of clan gear, with its half size ES and FF, 2 slot DHS and XL engine that lives through ST loss can possibly be balanced against IS mechs without sweeping nerfs to clan gear, which will ruin Omnimechs due to their locked customisation hamstringing them (even the MOST optimized ones like the timber still have atrocious placement of ES/FF crits)

[Moldur]

The Orion IIC is going to be shaped the same as the Orion. That's more than half of its problem right there. Nope. Nope. All that equipment won't change how the mech is shaped, but I don't really care if it's "DOA." It'll be a better version of the Orion, which I already like and do well in.

The Orion 'sucks' because of its shape, you literally cannot do anything to change that.

Edited by Moldur, 10 July 2015 - 12:21 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Widowmaker1981, on 10 July 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

Well thats a bit exaggerated..

HBK-4G

That will have an extra ~0.5 tons due to clan FF being better, which is 29 tons. or Twin Gauss + 5T of ammo. Admittedly thats a bit light on ammo, and its likely to have the worst hitboxes of any mech ever, but.. i simply dont see how full customization of clan gear, with its half size ES and FF, 2 slot DHS and XL engine that lives through ST loss can possibly be balanced against IS mechs without sweeping nerfs to clan gear, which will ruin Omnimechs due to their locked customisation hamstringing them (even the MOST optimized ones like the timber still have atrocious placement of ES/FF crits)

ES and FF will take fixed slots. Meaning that they won't be as easy to work with as IS mechs.

[Widowmaker1981]

IraqiWalker, on 10 July 2015 - 12:24 AM, said:

ES and FF will take fixed slots. Meaning that they won't be as easy to work with as IS mechs.

Mind telling me where you got that info? Imo its a good idea, and would seriously help, but ive seen nothing to suggest that - it simply says they will be exactly as customisable as IS mechs, and in the absence of other information that means dynamic FF/ES crits.

[IraqiWalker]

Widowmaker1981, on 10 July 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

Mind telling me where you got that info? Imo its a good idea, and would seriously help, but ive seen nothing to suggest that - it simply says they will be exactly as customisable as IS mechs, and in the absence of other information that means dynamic FF/ES crits.

They are using clan endo, and clan FF. Seems decently plausible it will be fixed.

[Widowmaker1981]

IraqiWalker, on 10 July 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

They are using clan endo, and clan FF. Seems decently plausible it will be fixed.

Ah, so just making it up then.

Fixing them would probably be good for balance, but i have a feeling they will be dynamic.

[Rakshasa]

IraqiWalker, on 10 July 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

They are using clan endo, and clan FF. Seems decently plausible it will be fixed.

Endo and FF slots are fixed in OmniMechs because of the OmniMech rules, not because they're Clan or IS. The IIC mechs are all BattleMechs, which means they should be fully customisable, which means dynamic Endo/FF.

[Kain Demos]

Widowmaker1981, on 10 July 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

Well thats a bit exaggerated..

HBK-4G

That will have an extra ~0.5 tons due to clan FF being better, which is 29 tons. or Twin Gauss + 5T of ammo. Admittedly thats a bit light on ammo, and its likely to have the worst hitboxes of any mech ever, but.. i simply dont see how full customization of clan gear, with its half size ES and FF, 2 slot DHS and XL engine that lives through ST loss can possibly be balanced against IS mechs without sweeping nerfs to clan gear, which will ruin Omnimechs due to their locked customisation hamstringing them (even the MOST optimized ones like the timber still have atrocious placement of ES/FF crits)

I don't see the issue. Yes, the Hunchback IIC will have more weight/space and better XL survivability. However, it will have NONE of the quirks the IS variants have and even more unfortunate hitboxes. As much as everyone complained about the hunch on the regular 'mech the IIC's STs are going to explode the second they get looked at.

[Mcgral18]

Widowmaker1981, on 10 July 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

Well thats a bit exaggerated..

HBK-4G

That will have an extra ~0.5 tons due to clan FF being better, which is 29 tons. or Twin Gauss + 5T of ammo. Admittedly thats a bit light on ammo, and its likely to have the worst hitboxes of any mech ever, but.. i simply dont see how full customization of clan gear, with its half size ES and FF, 2 slot DHS and XL engine that lives through ST loss can possibly be balanced against IS mechs without sweeping nerfs to clan gear, which will ruin Omnimechs due to their locked customisation hamstringing them (even the MOST optimized ones like the timber still have atrocious placement of ES/FF crits)

Hunches are fairly comparable with quirks.

4SP SRMs a similar amount, having 57% reduction, and can bring a better laser alpha. Half weight SRMs make filling tonnage hard to do, actually. Max engine, 4SRM6+A, 400 missiles, 4JJs, 2MPLs, 15DHS. That's with max (not stripped arms) armour and 3 crit slots remaining, with both FF and Endo.

4J is an LRM60, easily build with the IIC. 3LRM20+A, TAG, ERML (or MPL with stripping arms, ERLL with 5 tons of ammo), this one moves 89 Kph with a 250 and has 1 JJ.


Grid Iron can Gauss while moving much faster, with roughly twice the RoF, but that's less useful with Gauss because the charge. 3x Cooldown, but Charge adds 1.5s to the whole 2 cycles.

4G isn't quite double, and can't match the firepower of 2 UAC20s, but isn't left in the dust either. Slightly worse.

4H and 4P are both outclassed. Not bad robots, but these are also quite good. Max engine, JJs, Clam heatsinks.



3 of 6 isn't great, but it's not bad. The other 3 robots can't really hold on. Jenner's only saving grace...both have gigantic CTs.

Edited by Mcgral18, 10 July 2015 - 09:32 AM.