122 replies to this topic

[Alan Davion]

Hades Trooper, on 01 July 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm talking about the people i've spoken too that have at one time played the game and now don't and there reasons behind why not now.

I'm talking about what it causing a lack of player retention and the one isse that keeps coming up in all these chats is the paywall and this perception of playing for an early access that they call pay 4 power.

Now what can be done to stop this? Have you any suggestions? or are u gonna be like the masses who pay and say everything is fine and then wake up one day and say why can't i get any games anymore? why doesn't anyone play mwo?

If this game fails on it's steam release i can't see it not being wound up within 9 months or it being called a failed steam release.

which i would be very upset considering how much time and energy i've put into the game

Gee, maybe the fact that there are a multitude of core game mechanics that have been broken since the game launched, and have yet to be fixed yet?

Pay 2 Win or Pay 4 Power isn't the problem. The problem is stuff like LRM/ECM, limited game modes which, all in all just turn into a big deathmatch regardless, and no single player/PvE content, which also applies to CW. CW has a metric crap-ton of potential that hasn't been realized yet.

THIS is why they put up mechs for sale, especially using the IIC mechs as an example, they still have 5 months to go before they're released. PGI does this to try and get as much cash in hand as they can, so they can pay their employees who are working on the mechs, working on balancing and fixing the game, and working on adding new features to the game.

People stop buying mechs, PGI stops working. Plain and simple.

[Revis Volek]

mogs01gt, on 01 July 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

no-one plays CW
[/size]
Time spent doesnt equal free


Not sure if you are dense or just stupid. You have to unlock Mech variants into order to master mechs.....

NO s&%t Sherlock...but that not WASTING cbills...that's BUYING the mech you NEED to MASTER your chassis.

Dunno if you are dense or stupid but when you NEED to do something it hardly a waste.

Its not my fault you have a tenuous grasp on English and a hard time getting coherent sentences and thoughts onto this media.


So the fact that over 5 planets were taken last night from the IS and even some from the clans i think, and an event is running with people playing in it (just check out the tourney page) means to you no one plays CW. OK well i guess if you cant form sentences i can understands you wont be able to count either....Just because you dont play CW doesnt mean NO ONE ELSE IS....i love the entiltlment you guys have. If I dont play then NO ONE IS PLAYING....I AM CW! MUWHAAH.....fool.

Time is only worth what you make it...if you have nothing to do and it doesn't cost you anything to sit around and play then it sure is free. You already paid for that internet and your computer even if MWO wasn't around....so please explain to me how it isnt free (as in no money paid).


Now if you wanna argue semantics we can do that somewhere else....but not everyone's times is money.

Edited by DarthRevis, 01 July 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Hades Trooper, on 01 July 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

an again you failed to see the topic at hand,

AT NO TIME HAVE I SAID LETS COMPARE MECHS, what don't you understand about that? The fact you keep saying but just lets compare the mechs you fail to comprehend the topic at hand.

when u can post on topic than lets compare mechs, then i'll respond.

He was quite on topic, since you claim that the Mech Packs are selling power, he points out that they aren't, you immediately go off on him?

Nothing new, this is exactly what you do every time with these posts you make about this subject. We point out the fallacy, you resort to insults.

You wonder why we think you are full of it? Really?

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 01 July 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 July 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

He was quote on topic, since you claim that the Mech Packs are selling power, he points out that they aren't, you immediately go off on him?

Nothing new, this is exactly what you do every time with these posts you make about this subject. We point out the fallacy, you resort to insults.

You wonder why we think you are full of it? Really?

in all honesty, i'm full of it. however this guy is a whole new level i would say... i'd say he was once full of it... then let it spew out like sewage.

[Lord Perversor]

Hades Trooper, on 01 July 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

I was gonna come up with some snappy retort, but you know, as this person said, sure it's not pay to win but Pay 4 Power.

Can't disagree with that. Call it what u like i've in the past said the same, it's not pay to win but pay for early access. Which in effect is to get the shinies before anyone else and thus get a chance to lord over people in an OP mech that was poorly thought out and will need to be nerfed once PGI gets enough datat which is gonna take a few months and logical in the past once they come for c-bills its then they normally get the nerf hammer.

So while in the tradition sense it's not P2W, but it sure darn feels like.

Now with this early adopter format of packs it feels even more so.

I beg for anyone to dispute that the 4th variant in all those mechs has a onmi-pod that just doesn't scream out to being OP. Not talking specifically about wave 4

Hades Trooper, on 01 July 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

an again you failed to see the topic at hand,

AT NO TIME HAVE I SAID LETS COMPARE MECHS, what don't you understand about that? The fact you keep saying but just lets compare the mechs you fail to comprehend the topic at hand.

when u can post on topic than lets compare mechs, then i'll respond.

1st quote it's your opening can you point at me wich of all the mechs released from Mech Packs or MC only are so blatantly good and OP they reign supreme in the game but will be nerfed when they become C-bills Available?

Because as i said aside the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow (Wich got nerfed due the Laser Vomit meta , but not for their endurance/speed/boating capacity) all other Mechs are just as good now as the day those where released , some even better.

[Damien Tokala]

Lord Perversor, on 01 July 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

1st quote it's your opening can you point at me wich of all the mechs released from Mech Packs or MC only are so blatantly good and OP they reign supreme in the game but will be nerfed when they become C-bills Available?

Because as i said aside the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow (Wich got nerfed due the Laser Vomit meta , but not for their endurance/speed/boating capacity) all other Mechs are just as good now as the day those where released , some even better.

can i buy you a beer?

[Hades Trooper]

Lord Perversor, on 01 July 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yet the Phoenix mech are Pay 4 power? they where just a top notch above anything previous released?
Nope
Yet the clan Wave I and II are Pay 4 Power?
The Stormcrow? none pretty much ignored as competitive until the Laser vomit era began.
The Timber wolf? broken since TT standards due it's perfect design
The Dire Whale? only because it provides massive boating on any kind

Clan Wave II are op too? nein only the Hellbringer ECM capability gives it life

Resistance pack are OP i see Grasshoppers, Zeus,Phanter and Enforcers dominating the Battlefield now!!! oh wait they are not the Same 3x Broken clan mechs seems to reign only recently added by the Ebon Jaguar who just surpasses the Hellbringer due allowing even more boating and better shape.

So far we got 4 and Half mechs packs released (Phoenix , Resistance, Clan wave I-II and part of III) yet ONLY TWO CHASSIS suffered a nerf... while almost all others can be C-bill bought while they are as good or even better (Quirks Release) than the original release.. so yes i think you are clearly Right and only those who pay get access to the early power while all others must contempt with the leftovers...

Now let me be kind and just actually listen to what u wrote even though it was off topic.

Early Access is some peoples minds regardless of the mechs being released in the pay 4 power topic, the fact u want to compare mechs shows u lack understanding but let me know destroy your train of thought to show how wrong u where on your point anyway.

Phoenix release, Phoenic Hawk, Hands and above the IS mech at the time and still a chassis no one has a bad word about.
Wave I and II
Sorry if you where late to the boat but the storm crow had alwaysbeen the best mech tonne for tonne and best medium mech period even before laser vomit.
Timberwolf, i don't understand your point, your agreeing with me on that one? ok, yeah it's op, still is
Whale, it';s the whale OP yes, so again your proving my point.
Only the hellbringer in wave II, still proves my point it's op and getting early access was an advantage.
Panther's ppc quirks are god like, no advantage there now, ok i'm be sarcastic, oh course the panther is proving my point, it's the best pop tarting IS light there is, more over spider.
and you also pointed out the ebon jaguar

So you have only proven my points there are mechs in EVERY release that have changed the game with it's release some only small some other hugely.

This them feeds back to those people who don't join in on the early access feeling like there at a disadvantage, thus they feel it';s pay 4 power, thus we continue this cycle we loss players who don't like this paywall feeling that PGI release pattern has created.

Therefore you proved my point for me.

Early access, pay 4 power is here and it's alive and well and those who don't care will cry when they don';t have any more minnows to smash.

so regardless of your point but hey almost all those mechs have gotten better, at the time of release they were top, an those with $$$ got to get an advantage for 3 months or more than anyone else.

regardless if it's real or not, if these players are leaving due to a perception, that perception is still an issue we the community need to address as that perception isn't going to foster an increase in the player base.

That perception is still here when MWO hits steam, it will die on steam faster than i can write my review there. Regardless if i say anything good about mwo, if 1,000 new player experiences say, paywall, this is p2w, it will fail on steam, even if i'm there trying to support saying, nah just give it a go, just play for free and be a minnow or join in on the blood baths with us fellow whales.

[MerryIguana]

Lord Perversor, on 01 July 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

The Stormcrow? none pretty much ignored as competitive until the Laser vomit era began.

Some of the things said on this forum amaze me.

Edited by MerryIguana, 01 July 2015 - 10:37 AM.

[Hades Trooper]

Lord Perversor, on 01 July 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

1st quote it's your opening can you point at me wich of all the mechs released from Mech Packs or MC only are so blatantly good and OP they reign supreme in the game but will be nerfed when they become C-bills Available?

Because as i said aside the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow (Wich got nerfed due the Laser Vomit meta , but not for their endurance/speed/boating capacity) all other Mechs are just as good now as the day those where released , some even better.

the fact you can't see the OP mechs in each wave is your issue not mine, perhaps you should L2P you would understand.

it's also being excessive, sure they all haven't been nerfed specifically but all the clan mechs indirectly with weapon nerfs have been nerfed.

NEXT

Quote

Lord Perversor, on 02 July 2015 - 05:09 AM, said:

The Stormcrow? none pretty much ignored as competitive until the Laser vomit era began.

MerryIguana, on 01 July 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Some of the things said on this forum amaze me.</p>

i know right,

[Damien Tokala]

Hades Trooper, on 01 July 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

the fact you can't see the OP mechs in each wave is your issue not mine, perhaps you should L2P you would understand.

it's also being excessive, sure they all haven't been nerfed specifically but all the clan mechs indirectly with weapon nerfs have been nerfed.

NEXT

are you... are you high right now? it feels like you're either high, or 14.

[Rushmoar]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 July 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

It was kind of a general statement to people who complain about paywalls.

No, I'm not a moron. I'm smarter than you actually, I know that because I don't make stupid threads like this one.

AMEN brother!!!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Hades, once again, I'll try and explain this in simple terms so you understand, even though it's failed to work to date...

Pay To Win OR Pay For Power ONLY works if the objects bought are ONLY capable of being gotten in the game via real world cash purchases.

That's it, the ONLY way those actually work is that way, nothing else.

Since EVERY single Mech in the Mech packages, including the exclusive(whatever) VARIANTS can be purchased using ingame earned cbills later on makes the entire argument NULL AND VOID!

I know you have issues understanding this, and I know ALL your friends who've left the game ONLY left for this very reason, so they obviously don't understand either. How many of your friends are we talking about anyway, you never give any numbers, just allusions to 'them'...

Can we get a translator or something to get over to Hade's house and explain all this for him?

[Lord Perversor]

Hades Trooper, on 01 July 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Now let me be kind and just actually listen to what u wrote even though it was off topic.

Early Access is some peoples minds regardless of the mechs being released in the pay 4 power topic, the fact u want to compare mechs shows u lack understanding but let me know destroy your train of thought to show how wrong u where on your point anyway.

Phoenix release, Phoenic Hawk, Hands and above the IS mech at the time and still a chassis no one has a bad word about.
Wave I and II
Sorry if you where late to the boat but the storm crow had alwaysbeen the best mech tonne for tonne and best medium mech period even before laser vomit.
Timberwolf, i don't understand your point, your agreeing with me on that one? ok, yeah it's op, still is
Whale, it';s the whale OP yes, so again your proving my point.
Only the hellbringer in wave II, still proves my point it's op and getting early access was an advantage.
Panther's ppc quirks are god like, no advantage there now, ok i'm be sarcastic, oh course the panther is proving my point, it's the best pop tarting IS light there is, more over spider.
and you also pointed out the ebon jaguar

So you have only proven my points there are mechs in EVERY release that have changed the game with it's release some only small some other hugely.

This them feeds back to those people who don't join in on the early access feeling like there at a disadvantage, thus they feel it';s pay 4 power, thus we continue this cycle we loss players who don't like this paywall feeling that PGI release pattern has created.

Therefore you proved my point for me.

Early access, pay 4 power is here and it's alive and well and those who don't care will cry when they don';t have any more minnows to smash.

so regardless of your point but hey almost all those mechs have gotten better, at the time of release they were top, an those with $$$ got to get an advantage for 3 months or more than anyone else.

regardless if it's real or not, if these players are leaving due to a perception, that perception is still an issue we the community need to address as that perception isn't going to foster an increase in the player base.

That perception is still here when MWO hits steam, it will die on steam faster than i can write my review there. Regardless if i say anything good about mwo, if 1,000 new player experiences say, paywall, this is p2w, it will fail on steam, even if i'm there trying to support saying, nah just give it a go, just play for free and be a minnow or join in on the blood baths with us fellow whales.

so let me understand your point.

From the 16-20 Mechs released as Mech packs that later become available from C-bill only 2 got nerfed.

Yet you claim only ppl who paid real money got access to those Op mechs despite themind numbling fact that there is still 16-18 mechs who are as OP as they was.

[Damien Tokala]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 July 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Hades, once again, I'll try and explain this in simple terms so you understand, even though it's failed to work to date...

Pay To Win OR Pay For Power ONLY works if the objects bought are ONLY capable of being gotten in the game via real world cash purchases.

That's it, the ONLY way those actually work is that way, nothing else.

Since EVERY single Mech in the Mech packages, including the exclusive(whatever) VARIANTS can be purchased using ingame earned cbills later on makes the entire argument NULL AND VOID!

I know you have issues understanding this, and I know ALL your friends who've left the game ONLY left for this very reason, so they obviously don't understand either. How many of your friends are we talking about anyway, you never give any numbers, just allusions to 'them'...

Can we get a translator or something to get over to Hade's house and explain all this for him?

Well... Technically, by that definition, hero mechs are considered pay4power/pay2win...

[Kristov Kerensky]

Damien Tokala, on 01 July 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

are you... are you high right now? it feels like you're either high, or 14.

He's either really high or under the age of 4, because I know my own kids could understand and appreciate actual facts by the time they were 14. I suppose he could be 14 and have...issues...so I guess we can't discount that...hmm. Maybe it's both?

[LordNothing]

i dont have the cash to buy early access into any mech packs. but i see enough threads about doa or op mechs (both before and after release) to know that it is a craps shoot. any mech that you release into the wild is going to need its balence adjusted at some point. its new and its practical performance characteristics are not a known quantity. you cant use formulae to make all the balance decisions, but until its in game its just all theory. so you might get a monster of the battlefield or an under performer, you just dont know what you got until you run it a few times or try a couple different builds.

this does not bother me. i like to think of new mechs as being in beta. they are in but not quite done. by the time they get through the exclusive period and go up for mc/cb they are around 1.0. even then they might go through later revisions. exclusivity is not all its cracked up to be. id rather wait for them to be done than be disappointed after handing over a fist full of cash.

[mogs01gt]

DarthRevis, on 01 July 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

NO s&%t Sherlock...but that not WASTING cbills...that's BUYING the mech you NEED to MASTER your chassis.
Dunno if you are dense or stupid but when you NEED to do something it hardly a waste.
Its not my fault you have a tenuous grasp on English and a hard time getting coherent sentences and thoughts onto this media.
So the fact that over 5 planets were taken last night from the IS and even some from the clans i think, and an event is running with people playing in it (just check out the tourney page) means to you no one plays CW. OK well i guess if you cant form sentences i can understands you wont be able to count either....Just because you dont play CW doesnt mean NO ONE ELSE IS....i love the entiltlment you guys have. If I dont play then NO ONE IS PLAYING....I AM CW! MUWHAAH.....fool.
Time is only worth what you make it...if you have nothing to do and it doesn't cost you anything to sit around and play then it sure is free. You already paid for that internet and your computer even if MWO wasn't around....so please explain to me how it isnt free (as in no money paid).
Now if you wanna argue semantics we can do that somewhere else....but not everyone's times is money.

You arent too bright....Lets try to help you.

Example: player buys a hero mech they like, we shall call that Mech A.
Player buys Mech A but needs mech B and C to complete the Master tree.
Mechs B and C cost 10 mill Cbills.
Player now has to spend 20 mill Cbills on two variants he'll never use and still has to spend time playing in order to gain EXP to level both mechs.
Player spends time leveling both mechs then sells them for XX amount and he has spent XX time playing mechs he doesnt need instead of Mech A that he spent real money on.
Lets assume he sold each mech for 5 mill, he now has a net loss of 10 mill.

Lets recap. Player spends $XX on Hero mech and 10 mill Cbills just to master this mech......Talk about a huge waste of Cbills and time!!! Now lets consider this player is new and didnt realize he has to have other chassis leveled in order to Master his Hero mech...The cost of Cbills and time on that is significant.

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 July 2015 - 10:52 AM.

[Damien Tokala]

Hades... Are you complaining about hero mechs? That would be the only complaint that makes sense.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Damien Tokala, on 01 July 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well... Technically, by that definition, hero mechs are considered pay4power/pay2win...

Yeah, if they were actually better than anything else, they would be. I own the Yen Lo Wang, trust me, I did NOT pay to win with that thing, as much as I love it

The Grid Iron I can see being considered now that it's got that amazing Gauss cd quirk, but reality shows it's not a P2W Mech, it's just really fun.

[Lord Perversor]

Damien Tokala, on 01 July 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well... Technically, by that definition, hero mechs are considered pay4power/pay2win...

Wich almost everyone would agree with you aside the fact almost none of the Hero mechs are blatantly Superior to almost any other mech ingame.

In fact the few good Hero mechs.. are so because they draw advantages from the normal Chassis like the Misery-Stalker or from ******** quirks.

Edited by Lord Perversor, 01 July 2015 - 10:52 AM.