96 replies to this topic

[HammerSwarm]

Anarcho, on 03 July 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

THE NOVA, YES!

Its not fast, its not strong, and its SIZE and HITBOXES just add the cherry to the top of bad things this mech suffer... Make it small, keep the proportions and adjust the hitboxes a little... bang!

The Centurion, much more than the nova, needs to be resized. Why? look at the weapons lode outs, 3 missiles, 2 lasers, and a ballistic. That modest weapons loadout would be more useful in a smaller mech. The Nova which is "not strong" can have 12 lasers.

The Centurion is the clear choice because it's not super fast, and it's less strong than the nova, and it's also too big.

Next for me if I had a second vote would be the trebuchet which should be the same overall size as a centurion, not the hulking behemoth that it is now. It's also not as good as a nova for the same tonnage.

It's ridiculous to me that the new clan mechs are already in a poll with the original line up of IS mechs for a balance sizing pass.

[Matthew Ace]

HammerSwarm, on 04 July 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

Next for me if I had a second vote would be the trebuchet which should be the same overall size as a centurion, not the hulking behemoth that it is now. It's also not as good as a nova for the same tonnage.

It's ridiculous to me that the new clan mechs are already in a poll with the original line up of IS mechs for a balance sizing pass.

You can vote for multiple choices, you know that?

[Windscape]

JUST FIX ALL OF THEM PGI!!!!!!!!!!

[Black Ivan]

Griffin defintily needs to be smaller

[Greenjulius]

Black Ivan, on 04 July 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

Griffin defintily needs to be smaller

Every time I pilot one I think the same thing... Mediums in general are far too large.

[Tarogato]

All the mediums need scaled down. In fact, all mechs from 50 tons to 60 tons, in my opinion. You can't scale down the Shadowhawk and not also scale down the Centurion. Or Trebuchet. Or Kintaro. Or Griffin. They're all too big, uniformly.

[STEF_]

Tarogato, on 04 July 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

All the mediums need scaled down. In fact, all mechs from 50 tons to 60 tons, in my opinion. You can't scale down the Shadowhawk and not also scale down the Centurion. Or Trebuchet. Or Kintaro. Or Griffin. They're all too big, uniformly.

Awesome work Taro!

[pyrocomp]

Tarogato, on 04 July 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

All the mediums need scaled down. In fact, all mechs from 50 tons to 60 tons, in my opinion. You can't scale down the Shadowhawk and not also scale down the Centurion. Or Trebuchet. Or Kintaro. Or Griffin. They're all too big, uniformly.

Great thing! Can you make it a 2D-hist including hardpoints count to comparison? E.g. Mech profile pixel count depending on its mass and hardpoints (say arbitrary 3 points for high mounted hardpoints and 2 for every other)? Or, what will be easier maybe, just pixels per hardpoint. Hardpoints do matter.

Edited by pyrocomp, 04 July 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[Nightshade24]

m, on 03 July 2015 - 09:19 PM, said:

Trebuchet was the first major mech-scale uproar within the community ages ago.

It's a huge surprise it's not the highest voted out of all the classes from the community??

I thought the Catapult was the first major uproar... considering this was one from closed beta...

[Ovion]

Tarogato, on 04 July 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

All the mediums need scaled down. In fact, all mechs from 50 tons to 60 tons, in my opinion. You can't scale down the Shadowhawk and not also scale down the Centurion. Or Trebuchet. Or Kintaro. Or Griffin. They're all too big, uniformly.

Misread initially...

This is interesting, and an interesting way of doing it.

Edited by Ovion, 05 July 2015 - 03:48 AM.

[Mr Hunter]

Don't touch my hawks and if you do don't make them short, if i want a short mech I got the hbks for that.

[jss78]

Looking at the oft-linked size comparison chart, I'd say that with the exception of Nova (which is way too bulky), the other mediums are actually OK. Some are tall, but looking at their bulk in both front and side profile, they aren't too bad.

Some could be adjusted a little, but to me the worst offenders are elsewhere (e.g. Spider and Kit Fox don't look nowhere near the same tonnage, where as Catapult, Warhawk and Dire Wolf look the same size despite the large tonnage differences). Assuming that PGI is only rescaling a few, I'd prioritize those.

[TinFoilHat]

Nova - whole mech
Cent - height and width, right arm redesign
Kintaro - still seems like it's too fat

[Pezzer]

I simply don't understand how the Shadow Hawk has more votes than the Kintaro...

The Shadow Hawk may be a little big, but it also has a big loadout and PERFECT hitboxes. I've consistently done 400-700 damage in mine back when I practiced with them. The Kintaro and Nova should be forerunner for the spot, with the Nova winning. That poor thing has been gathering dust for too long. I can get the PRIME to do its' dance, but it takes way too much shimmying for that to be possible.

[Postumus]

Frost Lord, on 03 July 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

I think very good mechs like the shadow hawk should be vetoed at least for the first pass, cant really argue a mechs case when it dose so well, just looks like it is wining a popularity contest.

Wait what? Very good mechs? Shadowhawk has been dead since the PPC nerf. It can't do an AC/20 without a small standard engine, AC/10 sucks, and smaller dakka in mediums is death. It doesn't have enough energy hardpoints to have anything but backup lasers, and as I already mentioned PPCs suck hard if you don't get quirks, which it doesn't. Only one of the vartiants has enough missile hardpoints to try being a missile brawler, but you can't even fill them all out with Artemis 4's because one is in the head. Besides, the Griffin puts it to shame in that role anyways.

What you end up with is a crappy, middle of the road jack of all trades that doesn't do anything well. There's a reason why no Shadowhawk is anywhere near the top tier for comp play. That said, most of what's wrong with it isn't geometry, its the lack of quirks and the suck of AC/10 and PPCs, which would be this thing's best friends.

Edited by Postumus, 05 July 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[Sidewynder]

For as long as Kintaro will continue to have the size and profile of a goddamn mini-Atlas, its hardpoints will be spread out as wide as a heavy-assault and it will never amount to anything more than a niche LRM boat. It's too easy to hit in a brawl, its profile is too noticeable and too easily affected by low-hanging cover, which is egregious given the SRM focus of the mech in brawling situations.

Lackluster convergence and hardpoint layout could be fixed with other changes, but a decrease in profile and size could at least alleviate issues a little better. I rarely see a brawling Kintaro these days, which is funny (and sad) when the Golden Boy was marketed for it.

The Kintaro's size is both functionally and visually counterproductive to its design. That's opposite to mechs like the Shadowhawk, which look ridiculously large for its size, but its height, fair hardpoint layout and good hitboxes and profile actually work in its favour in various roles.

[HarlekinEO]

I voted for Shadowhawk (too big) and Ice Ferret (too small).

[Juodas Varnas]

HarlekinEO, on 06 July 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

I voted for Shadowhawk (too big) and Ice Ferret (too small).

I'm pretty sure Ice Ferret is the largest 45 ton mech... And it's "too small"?

No offense, but i think i now understand why Shadowhawk has more votes than the Trebuchet...

[Inflatable Fish]

my votes went to the Centurion (width), Vindicator (height), Wolverine (height and width) and Enforcer (height). all to be scaled down.

[Phashe]

Cant argue with the Nova - Relative to it's medium counterparts, the Nova makes the Awesome look like a slender, sexy thing. LOL

I guess as a second choice, throw in one of those mediums for the LRM-boating crowd. Their C'pults are already monsters. Why not give them another boat option like a Kidtaro or one of those other never-used mediums.