83 replies to this topic

[Water Bear]

Simbacca, on 06 July 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

My Atlas-RS runs 2 x LRM15 Artemis with 4 tons ammo, 4 Large Lasers, AMS with 1 ton ammo, and as many double heat sinks that I could fit. But overall that build is meant for longer range engagements.

The -8T AWS could run 2xlrm 15 + 3 ER Large Lasers with an XL and is quirked to hell and back for those weapons (15% cooldown on missiles, 30% on lasers). Consider switching chassis!

[Joseph Mallan]

Water Bear, on 06 July 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

The -8T AWS could run 2xlrm 15 + 3 ER Large Lasers with an XL and is quirked to hell and back for those weapons (15% cooldown on missiles, 30% on lasers). Consider switching chassis!

Consider it yes, must do it... Nope! He is playing what he wants not what you want.

[Spheroid]

people should be smart enough to analyze their own performance and adjust their builds accordingly. Obviously the 300 STD allows a wide variety of builds once the heatsinks are upgraded. Those bad Atali could just be a new crop of noobs.

Is it my job to prevent the worst builds being fielded in an attempt to boost player retention?

Also unelited Atlases are deathtraps. LRM grinding is a legitimate leveling technique.

[mogs01gt]

Escef, on 06 July 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

The team needs to move dynamically, which a 100 ton behemoth just can't do. Armor is for when speed and positioning fail, if armor is your first line of defense than you've already lost.
I'm forced to wonder what kind of insanity would be caused if more people in the various queues took Zeuses and Battlemasters with 375+ rated XL engines. Super-heavy skirmishers can and do work.

You are attempting to resolve a MWO created problem where team movement/lance movement is poor. IMO a better lance configuration would include each weight class. That way you are more dependent on our lance mates no matter the weight class.

[Water Bear]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 July 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Consider it yes, must do it... Nope! He is playing what he wants not what you want.

I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with people arguing it's optimal.

[Khobai]

Atlases are bad in general. Im not sure what people expect when they put bad weapons on bad mechs.

[Sarlic]

What about the pilot? It's not only the mech.

[Water Bear]

Sarlic, on 06 July 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

What about the pilot? It's not only the mech.

Assuming the pilots using the mechs are roughly equal in skill, it makes sense to analyze which mech is better.

Since this game has an Elo based matchmaker, it's probably a pretty frequent occurrence that the guy you're shooting at is roughly equal in skill to you, despite what 90% of the looking-for-someone-else-to-blame posts on this forum might imply.

[Sarlic]

Water Bear, on 06 July 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

Assuming the pilots using the mechs are roughly equal in skill, it makes sense to analyze which mech is better.

Since this game has an Elo based matchmaker, it's probably a pretty frequent occurrence that the guy you're shooting at is roughly equal in skill to you, despite what 90% of the looking-for-someone-else-to-blame posts on this forum might imply.

Some are terrible at Assaults while they're good at Lights. Some are excellent with Assault but bad with Mediums and so forth..

Sure the Mech could use more thinking, but some pilots can just make it work.

[Escef]

mogs01gt, on 06 July 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

You are attempting to resolve a MWO created problem where team movement/lance movement is poor. IMO a better lance configuration would include each weight class. That way you are more dependent on our lance mates no matter the weight class.

All that would accomplish is splintering groups hard early on. Unless the match was just lance-on-lance.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 06 July 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Atlases are bad in general. Im not sure what people expect when they put bad weapons on bad mechs.

I expect buttloads of C-Bills from my Atlas-S(L) combined with LRMs. And I get them. Surprisingly I have higher than 1:1 WLR with it.

With 350 XL, it keeps up with the herd.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 July 2015 - 09:13 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Escef, on 06 July 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

All that would accomplish is splintering groups hard early on. Unless the match was just lance-on-lance.

Most of Battletech was lance on lance.

[Ngamok]

LRM AS7-S

[Water Bear]

Ngamok, on 06 July 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

LRM AS7-S

It's so wrong, but be damned if I don't want to try one of those builds now...

[Escef]

mogs01gt, on 06 July 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Most of Battletech was lance on lance.

And this is MWO, which is its own animal.

[Jman5]

I have played way too many games with Tier 1 Meta Assaults that completely crumble in the hands of some inept pilot. Results are all that matter. Break 370 damage in your assault and I don't care what your build looks like.

[Chuck Jager]

Chix w Dix > Atlas w LRMs > Hellbringer w LRMS and no ECM

it may change if they transition by keeping the lrms equipped for a year

[mogs01gt]

Escef, on 06 July 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

And this is MWO, which is its own animal.

Correct. If PGI wants MWO to be more of an FPS, then they need to go that route meaning those 100t need to be used for armor not sitting back as an lrm boat. If PGI wants this to be more of a battletech game, then they need to promote lance battles.

I dont care which way it goes as long as the mechs and their play styles fits the game. A 100t LRM boat doesnt fit this game every well(currently).

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 06 July 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

The team needs to move dynamically, which a 100 ton behemoth just can't do. Armor is for when speed and positioning fail, if armor is your first line of defense than you've already lost.

I'm forced to wonder what kind of insanity would be caused if more people in the various queues took Zeuses and Battlemasters with 375+ rated XL engines. Super-heavy skirmishers can and do work.

Skirmishers still need firepower when they arrive. Anything above a 350/360 on a Zeus is honestly a waste. Heck I got a 400xl in my BLR-1G for giggles but it really doesn't make for a GOOD Mech.

El Bandito, on 06 July 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

I expect buttloads of C-Bills from my Atlas-S(L) combined with LRMs. And I get them. Surprisingly I have higher than 1:1 WLR with it.

With 350 XL, it keeps up with the herd.

wow, higher than 1:1 you say? That certainly what I aspire for in my Assaults......

[Water Bear]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Skirmishers still need firepower when they arrive. Anything above a 350/360 on a Zeus is honestly a waste. Heck I got a 400xl in my BLR-1G for giggles but it really doesn't make for a GOOD Mech.

I could be wrong (already have been once in this very thread) but engine tonnage seems to increase rapidly compared to engine rating beyond a certain point. I agree with your analysis; At some point, adding 10 more engine rating at a cost of 5 tons to gain 1.8 kph top speed on an assault is a clearly losing deal.

This factor greatly affects my grasshopper builds, whose optimal engine rating seems to sit right on the line of diminishing returns.

Edited by Water Bear, 06 July 2015 - 02:28 PM.