175 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

bad arcade kitty, on 07 July 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

it sounds questionable
20 it's just 0.02 sec difference and is therefore barely noticeable

It's not questionable, it's how it works, 20ms variance is quite a bit, and that kind of up/down will usually be accompanied by packet loss in the 5-10% range, if not higher, and that amplifies the problem. Generally means there's an overloaded node somewhere, or a physical issue somewhere along the lines. You'd be amazed what something like cracked insulation on a line can do to your connection..

I drove my Panther yesterday for quite a few hours, the ballistic variant, which I don't even have Basics in yet(well, I do NOW!), and I was having a blast. I took my Raven 3L out first, high speed recon/sniper build, and it was gaming as usual for me. Then I took my Panther out and oh my god. 87kph, AC5, 2 SRM2s, and I was having a blast, 300pt games with 2 tons of AC5 ammo and 1 ton of SRM ammo, ran out of ammo EVERY single drop! I simply played it like I do my other Panthers, long range sniper and recon, the SRMs are for dealing with other Lights who get close or for dancing around bigger Mechs with average pilots. I drove 1 Timby pilot NUTS! I was behind him and he couldn't turn fast enough and twist enough to see me, but he KNEW I was there, my SRM2s were sanding away his back armor. Tore his ass up, took off both of his side torsos, before one of his teammates FINALLY got around to helping him and took me out. Poor Timby pilot never got a shot off at me though, and my Panther only did 87kph top speed...

So those people saying big Mechs can turn too fast and twist too far, please, enough excuses. I did that to a TIMBY with a Panther doing 87kph, and you are trying to tell us that your 150kph Lights can't do it?

Bad Light pilots are bad, and the HSR fixes are showing them exactly how bad they really are, where before the HSR issues were shielding them from themselves. Now all we need is collisions, REAL collisions, to weed out the remaining few Light pilots who are good enough to avoid getting shot but still ram into everything and everyone because they don't take real damage from it. Heard a LOT of banging noises when Light Mechs were around me, anyone else notice that?

[pwnface]

Heavy and Assault mechs DO turn too quickly IMO.

If you can stay behind Timberwolf (goes 89kph) in an 87kph panther it just means the Timberwolf pilot was bad.

[Greenjulius]

MoonUnitBeta, on 08 July 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

No. I agree.
This game needs to become much more before we actually can get that illusive "role warfare". Information warfare seems to basically be limited to shared targeting and seeing the mechs weapons loadout. I'm really not sure why they highlighted that as a "pillar". I mean it's necessary, not to mention pretty standard...
I dunno. Now I'm just rambling.

Yeah, in an decent match against decent players, lights are at such a disadvantage as long as HSR is functioning properly. I took my Adders out yesterday and found that they now pop faster than ever. They really aren't worth taking out anymore

And an Adder isn't a "role warfare" mech either. It's just supposed to be a fighting light. With the nerfs to clan lasers last year, it will never be the same mech, and is at a huge disadvantage. At least the Kitfox has JJ and ECM.

I'm worried that I may have to shelve my locusts now, as they seem to eat laservomit more than ever. I popped at least 2 locusts with my Executioner yesterday with fire that NEVER would have killed them before the patch. I ran a STD 190 Pirate's Bane and died almost immediately after coming under fire as well.

We obviously aren't getting role warfare anytime soon in this game, so fixed hitreg has the amusing side effect of making lights much worse.

Time to kill needs to increase, badly. Power creep has turned most encounters into "who can unload two alphas into someone's CT first."

Edited by Greenjulius, 08 July 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Greenjulius, on 08 July 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

We obviously aren't getting role warfare anytime soon in this game, so fixed hitreg has the amusing side effect of making lights much worse.

Time to kill needs to increase, badly. Power creep has turned most encounters into "who can unload two alphas into someone's CT first."

Well it just goes to show that this is just Mobile Weapons Platform Online (no, i'm serious. This goes deeper than LRM/PPC/Dakka/warrior online, etc). There's nothing about MWO that takes things away from a simple PVP game and turns it into a Mechwarrior game. PVE could help, but we really just need to encompass the universe in its entirety, and create a game much like Planetside 2 where theres less about killing as the objective, and more about territorial control.

Anyways, atleast we can expect more structure and armor quirks for lights to make them more desirable in Mobile Weapons Platform Online, lest the new role of lights whittles down to large laser/ppc snipers and cappers. I think it'll take 2 or 3 months before PGI starts buffing lights again.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 08 July 2015 - 12:07 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

pwnface, on 08 July 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Heavy and Assault mechs DO turn too quickly IMO.

If you can stay behind Timberwolf (goes 89kph) in an 87kph panther it just means the Timberwolf pilot was bad.

He wasn't a bad pilot, I'm just a much better Light pilot. I get on someone's ass and I do NOT run around them, I stay ON their ass, keeping directly behind them at all times or bug out fast if I see I can't do that. I find very few Light pilots actually do that, most of them try and run circles around their targets and that's it, depending on their speed, being too close to their target and the HSR/hitreg issues to keep them alive. I've always LOVED those Light pilots in my Heavy/Assault Mechs, they are such easy kills, because they always run directly into my guns! And I don't do that myself as a Light pilot, it's a surefire way to end up dead fast. I generally just get behind them and stick, if I can't stick I bug out before I get in too deep, simple as that. It's how Lights are supposed to fight against anything larger, it's how I've always used them, in TT, previous MW titles and MWO. I've NEVER been a fan of the 'run up to an Assault and facetank' tactic so many Lights have previously been able to pull off, and I keep laughing at the idiots who KEEP trying to do it now. I seriously saw 1 guy in a Light 4 different drops who did that every drop and got blown aways immediately each time. Guy went off in chat each time about hackers, people told him it was the HSR fix, he just kept going on about hackers, some people are just stupid, and NOW that stupidity is fatal in MWO!

Nothing wrong with how fast bigger Mechs turn and twist, Lights are capable of keeping out of danger if they try, they just have to TRY, and lets face it, most don't. You can't stick around if the target can outmanuever you in a Light, it's suicide, and most people are so used to the bad HSR issues that they have been getting away with it....until now.

[Big Tin Man]

Wow, this thread has been everywhere.

My experience from last night:

HSR improvements are working. TTK is down, damage scores at the end of matches are down. PPC's work against lights again. My aim is not awful, but not amazing and I saw more of my shots land on the component I was aiming for, and not spread all over everything. Driving a light now requires more care, as shots are more accurate and it's harder to spread damage (if you're the kind of light who takes damage). Patch is working as intended.

[Lugh]

Kristov Kerensky, on 08 July 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

It's not questionable, it's how it works, 20ms variance is quite a bit, and that kind of up/down will usually be accompanied by packet loss in the 5-10% range, if not higher, and that amplifies the problem. Generally means there's an overloaded node somewhere, or a physical issue somewhere along the lines. You'd be amazed what something like cracked insulation on a line can do to your connection..

I drove my Panther yesterday for quite a few hours, the ballistic variant, which I don't even have Basics in yet(well, I do NOW!), and I was having a blast. I took my Raven 3L out first, high speed recon/sniper build, and it was gaming as usual for me. Then I took my Panther out and oh my god. 87kph, AC5, 2 SRM2s, and I was having a blast, 300pt games with 2 tons of AC5 ammo and 1 ton of SRM ammo, ran out of ammo EVERY single drop! I simply played it like I do my other Panthers, long range sniper and recon, the SRMs are for dealing with other Lights who get close or for dancing around bigger Mechs with average pilots. I drove 1 Timby pilot NUTS! I was behind him and he couldn't turn fast enough and twist enough to see me, but he KNEW I was there, my SRM2s were sanding away his back armor. Tore his ass up, took off both of his side torsos, before one of his teammates FINALLY got around to helping him and took me out. Poor Timby pilot never got a shot off at me though, and my Panther only did 87kph top speed...

So those people saying big Mechs can turn too fast and twist too far, please, enough excuses. I did that to a TIMBY with a Panther doing 87kph, and you are trying to tell us that your 150kph Lights can't do it?

Bad Light pilots are bad, and the HSR fixes are showing them exactly how bad they really are, where before the HSR issues were shielding them from themselves. Now all we need is collisions, REAL collisions, to weed out the remaining few Light pilots who are good enough to avoid getting shot but still ram into everything and everyone because they don't take real damage from it. Heard a LOT of banging noises when Light Mechs were around me, anyone else notice that?

latency does NOT always mean packet loss.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lugh, on 08 July 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

latency does NOT always mean packet loss.

Latency doesn't mean packet loss at all, but when your latency is bouncing around and unstable, that generally means you'll find packet loss taking place as well, it may be low, 5-10%, and it may not happen at all, but they do tend to go hand in hand. I'm in IT, ping starts bouncing around, packet loss usually shows up, nature of networking. Doesn't always happen, true, but I've also seen steady 30ms pings with extremely high packet loss and steady 1200ms pings with 0% packet loss, as what is generally true isn't ALWAYS true.

[KharnZor]

After having a run in my 4G i've got to say i'm impressed. Hitreg is pretty much spot on.

Lugh, on 08 July 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

latency does NOT always mean packet loss.

Indeed. I ping between 250 and 290 these days but i have 0 packet loss.

[Torric]

My experience has been pretty mixed so far. I pretty much oneshot three lights (in different matches)via rear sidetorso hits after the patch, but then before the patch i neve really bothered to aim for anything but center of mass in most cases, because that was the only way of having at least around half my damage register on the server.

Then i put three triple UAC5 volleys into the cherry red CT of an EBJ at around 90m range, and nothing. All in all, not sure i can say hitreg really is better, and my ping is around 100-110 with services like pingtest.net showing grade A results (to european servers, that is *ahem*).

[Bishop Steiner]

YeOlWardog, on 08 July 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Take a look at vids of an A1Abrams, going full tilt over rough terrain, and tell me what that tube does (a little help: it dont move bro) . Its a thing, also found in BT, called a gyroscope. As of convergence, one might think stuff we can fix today can be fixed in the future. Even in the lore ya find "target locks ",and not only for lrms, and computer assisted aiming even in the older is mechs. MWO is played in the future but you are thinking now, and I am really getting tired of hearing the "bam" about convergence, reguardless of the topic of the post.

when you figure out the difference in a flat plane travelling Tank (which by the way doesn't have perfect stable aim at flank over rough terrain, hate to tell you) and the bobbing and weaving of a humanoid mechanic over similar terrain, get back to me.

[Macster16]

First game in got River City redux driving my MPL Scrow and at the beginning of the match I one-shotted a near fresh FS9 by taking out his ST which pretty much confirmed right away that HSR has improved for me dramatically. Before, one-shotting a near fresh FS9 with lasers that was dashing around the place was simply undoable with my aussie ping. HSR since has been working perfectly and my dmg-to-kill ratio has dropped by quite a bit.

Hopefully, it holds up....

[ShadowWolf Kell]

I wonder if it'll be enough to shift from legging to just blowing their XL on a consistant basis. That'd be hilarious.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Greenjulius, on 08 July 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

I'm worried that I may have to shelve my locusts now, as they seem to eat laservomit more than ever. I popped at least 2 locusts with my Executioner yesterday with fire that NEVER would have killed them before the patch. I ran a STD 190 Pirate's Bane and died almost immediately after coming under fire as well.

Ok, so you aimed at them and they actually died instead of shrugging off oodles of damage.
And this somehow seems.. wrong?

[stjobe]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 08 July 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

I wonder if it'll be enough to shift from legging to just blowing their XL on a consistant basis. That'd be hilarious.

If my experience the last two days is anything to go by, then yes. I die a *lot* more often to side-torso destruction - I even had an ammo explosion take out my little Urbie today after someone perforated its side torso.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Loving the new HSR. Running a Raven 3L tonite, not dying any more often than usual, and MY damage is getting through.

Its weird but I actually feel like I am hitting for damage all the time now, even though my ping has gone from 40 to 66.

[Weeny Machine]

Kristov Kerensky, on 08 July 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

So those people saying big Mechs can turn too fast and twist too far, please, enough excuses. I did that to a TIMBY with a Panther doing 87kph, and you are trying to tell us that your 150kph Lights can't do it?

Jup, there are people outside who cannot even keep a Panther in the sight of a TW. Sorry, but that was not your skill but rather the ineptitude of the TW player. However, do you really want to base your argument on that skill level (or rather the lack of skill)? Seriously?

The point of some people here was anyway:
1. You can get out of the LoF from a heavy for a short time but the time is simply too short considering the amount of firepower it can throw at you in one salvo (sidenote: this is actually the reason why the heavy queue is so bloated - you do not need to fear lights thanks to your mobility and rival the firepower of most assaults. If that's not a sweet spot, I dunno)

2. With the improved hitreg (a really good thing) the lights got even more fragile. Plus the TTK went lower across the board and it is debatable if not too much firepower is flying around.

3. Too bad that heavies and assaults are not always so dumb and are alone. If you consider 1. and 2. and that another mech can take a pot shot at you while your light is engaging a heavy..well...you take so much damage that you are soon out of the game even if you make it out of the situation alive.


It may be coincidence but I see more and more light mechs with ranged weaponry. Heck, even a FS with a large laser. I think that speaks volumes

Edited by Bush Hopper, 09 July 2015 - 12:03 AM.

[JHackworth]

HSR is definitely improved. LURMS hurt more, everything hurts more. In one match, i cut down three lights (SDRs, MLX) just stabbing at their legs. Anecdotal data perhaps.

Anyway, the issue with lights is simply sensor mechanics, not their relatively playability or strength. At the moment, sensors can detect a little spider at the same distance out as a 100 ton Atlas. Makes no sense. If lights had a smaller sensor profile and you were forced to uses your Mark I eyeballs, it'd be a totally different and much more interesting game.

BTW, credit for this goes to Kanajashi

[Hydrocarbon]

Darian DelFord, on 07 July 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Radar treats a 20 ton mech the same as a 100 ton mech.

This is where I *loved* eve-online. The smaller your ship, the longer lock-on took & less damage you took from most weapons - especially high-alpha weapons. But then again that's like giving everyone average results from the average aim, favoring tactical loadouts over aiming skill.

[Weeny Machine]

Darian DelFord, on 07 July 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

Radar treats a 20 ton mech the same as a 100 ton mech.

Good idea. Especially if you take into consideration that each mech's sensor suit is supposed to carry MAD - an a heap of 20t of metal should be harder to detect than 100t